Yellow Lighting Question

Dmski

Adventurer
Hey all,

Lighting has been a trial and error thing for me. Initially I had 4 Hella 500ff's mounted on the roof of my Xterra and moved them due to light glare. What good is auxiliary lights if you can't see when you use them?! I've been extremely pleased with them on the front of the car but after a season in snow and bad weather conditions, I'm opting to put a yellow covering over two of the lenses so I can run a set of clear driving lights at 100w and a set of yellowed driving lights. This way I've covered all bases for light needs/color at an affordable cost.

My question for you all is this: Is it better to get the lense film and use white 55w or 100w bulbs, or go strictly with yellow bulbs at around 65w-100w or do both yellow bulbs and lense film? And will the wiring harness with a 20amp fuse hold up to a 100w bulb?

Thanks for the help in advance!
 

tacr2man

Adventurer
Fog or falling snow cannot be overcome by lighting as the backscatter ends up causing your dazzle , low and flat top beams are only answer. From experience in Foggy UK , and when snow plowing . Re roof mounted , in other conditions which you want to use (eg on bad terrain) then mounting far enough back so that the bonnet area falls in the shadow of the front edge of the roof works well. Changing the colour to yellow doesnt solve your probs , the only colour change that has an efect is going to RED , as used on road trains in Australia to counter the blackhole effect when going from several hundred watts on main beam to 110 total on dip . This due to night vision being preserved by red rather than a massively bright white light on main beam. The only plus for yellow lighting I have come across is its use as camp lighting so as not to attract insects. HTSH
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
...
My question for you all is this: Is it better to get the lense film and use white 55w or 100w bulbs, or go strictly with yellow bulbs at around 65w-100w or do both yellow bulbs and lense film? And will the wiring harness with a 20amp fuse hold up to a 100w bulb?

Thanks for the help in advance!
I like selective yellow myself. Some people are more sensitive to glare and selective yellow tends to be less aggravating to those individuals.

The film, no matter how good it is or what the manufacturer purports to have accomplished in "optical clarity", will reduce the light output by 15-20%. Take away another 5-15% for the filter (yellow is filtering out blues and greens, etc).

There are no really good tinted bulbs either. None.

Use the best clear bulb you can find (not a tinted blue bulb like PIAA or Silverstar rubbish) & try a product from Duplicolor called Metalcast Yellow and give your lenses a light coat from the inside. Make sure you prep the glass by cleaning it very well.
I've used this method with very good success; I learned it from Daniel Stern.
Read more about selective yellow here.
 

Toiyabe

Adventurer
Light color effect on vision.

I'm trying to find the article I read on this a few years ago, but here are some interesting tidbits about light color on night vision.

Q: I've heard that a red LED light will preserve my night vision. Is this true?
A: Short answer: Yes. A dim red light will preserve your night vision.

The LONG answer:

The back of our eye, called the "retina" detects light and allows us to "see". The retina is made of of 2 types of structures, cones and rods.

The cones are responsible for our normal daytime vision. Cones detect both the wavelength (color) and intensity (brightness) of light that goes into our eyes and passes that information to our brain.

The rods are responsible for our "night adapted vision". Rods do not detect wavelength (no color), but are very sensitive to intensity (brightness) of light. They pass on only shades of gray to our brain. They only work at very low light intensities (dim light), are most sensitive to light at about 500nm (turquoise/cyan), and are blind to red light (around 620nm).

If you are walking around under daylight and you see the world in a kaleidoscope of colors, you are using your cones to see with. If you are walking around under starlight and the whole landscape appears as shades of gray, you are using your rods to see with.

The last thing you really need to know about the rods is that it takes some time for them to work after moving from bright lights to a dim environment. Usually it takes about 15-30 minutes for them to work at 100%. However, even a fraction of a second of bright light will cause the clock to reset and you may have to wait another 15-30 minutes for your night vision to be back to 100%.

So how does red preserve our night vision?

Let's say that it is dark outside and you are using only starlight to see by. You have been away from bright lights for 1/2 hour so your night adapted vision is working at its maximum and you see the landscape in shades of gray. You need a brighter light to walk around or see some details in the environment but still want to be able to see all the stars when you shut off your flashlight. Using the above information, we have a sneaky way to preserve our night adapted vision but still use light bright enough to keep us from tripping over a stump.

When our eyes are fully night adapted, we are using our rods. The rods cannot detect red light, but our cones can. So if we use a red light flashlight we can see what is around us using our cones. The rods in our eye can't see the red light and our night adapted vision is unaffected. Turn off the red light and you can go right back to looking at the stars in the same detail as before without having to wait another 1/2 hour for our rods to work again.

Does the brightness of the red light matter?

Actually, yes! You know how when you look at a bright landscape and then quickly look at a dark area you can sometimes still see the landscape in your vision? It looks like a bright negative image? This is called an "afterimage" and it fades over time. If you use a very bright red light your cones will see "afterimages" when you shut it off. The afterimages overlap your field of vision and will make it hard to see using your rods until the afterimages fade. Therefore you should use as dim of a red light as possible for the task at hand to preserve your night adapted vision.

But you said our rods are most sensitive to Cyan light! Can't I use a Cyan LED light to look around and still preserve my night vision?

Yes, our rods are most sensitive to 500nm (cyan/turquoise) light. Remember though, that the rods are very, very, very sensitive to intensity. A bright light of any color (except red) will ruin your night adapted vision. So cyan is actually the WORST to use when you need a brighter light to see the environment around you since this light wavelength is what the rods pick up best. Cyan light has to be kept very, very dim to keep it from ruining night adapted vision.

If you want to thoroughly ruin someone's night adapted vision, shine a bright Cyan/Turquoise at them. Since the rods are responsible for our night vision and are most sensitive to this color light, they'll immediately go "night blind" and will be unable to see in the dark at all immediately after turning off the light. Of course this will work with a bright white light too...

Here is an example of the worst possible "night vision" light you can have, and what appears to be a bit of a misunderstanding by the maker of how our night adapted vision works! Since the headlamp in the article produces a very bright cyan light, the user's rods would be completely shut down and only the cones in the eye would be used. In that case you would be better off using a white headlamp so you can see all the colors of the spectrum using your cones instead of just blue/green!

What about Green light? My relative in the military says they use Green light for night vision!

Green light is used by the military for electronic night vision equipment which is less sensitive to green light. However a green light can still have a bad effect on your night adapted vision, just like any other color of light unless it is kept very dim.

How can I tell if a light (other than red) is too bright to preserve my night adapted vision?

How can you tell how much light is too much for the rods? Easy! If you can see the color of the light, it's too bright for the rods and the cones are now doing the work. If you only detect it as "light" and you still see the world around you in shades of gray, the cones are shut down and the rods are doing the work.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/qa/nightvision.htm

Turn night into day (use bright light), or preserve night vision (use low light)?

Because of the eye’s physiology, it isn’t possible to both use a bright flashlight and preserve your night vision. Our eyes go through chemical changes in response to light, and these changes take time to reverse. It can take as little as several minutes or as long as several days to recover maximum night vision following exposure to bright light. Note that each person’s night vision potential is different, with age, presbyopia, smoking, medications and selection of parents among the many factors that affect how well anybody can potentially see at night.

In very dim (scotopic) conditions, when the cones aren’t contributing to vision, we do not perceive any color or details. We can see objects in black and white only, like on our grandparents’ TV. This is a common experience on starlit or overcast, moonless nights. As mentioned earlier, the eye responds differently to different parts of the wavelength. But it’s even more complicated than that. The cones, which give us our acute and color vision (photopic), are most sensitive at 555nm (yellow-green). This is the reason, by the way, for the newer fire truck and ambulance colors - it’s the color we see most readily during the day - not “fire engine” red. The rods, on which we rely for our night vision, are most sensitive at 505nm (blue-green). One result of this phenomenon is that blue-green light looks brighter at night than red. Unlike the cones, which can see all of what we humans perceive as the visible spectrum, rods essentially cut off all wavelengths greater than about 640nm, the red portion of the visible spectrum. What this means to us is that for all colors other than red, as they are gradually dimmed there comes a point - called the cone threshold - where color is no longer perceived but light still is. At this point only the rods are contributing to vision. With red, however, the cones and rods lose perception simultaneously, and the red light simply winks out.

How can the lightweight backpacker take advantage of this technical gobbledygook?

Most people think they want a flashlight that gives bright, even, white illumination to emulate daylight conditions as best as possible. This approach keeps us in familiar territory perceiving both detail and color after dark. The bright-‘n-white approach, however, is not the most efficient one, either for power management or for making use of our eyes’ natural capabilities.

For example, if you want to see the most detail possible you need to maximize stimulation of the cones because they provide detail along with color. Using yellow-green LEDs in your flashlight accomplishes this, while simultaneously using less current.

Or perhaps you want to use the least amount of light you can get away with for navigating in the dark while, again, using the least power possible. In this case you might want a blue-green light source that maximizes rod sensitivity..

The third approach is to do everything possible to maximize and maintain your night vision potential. This means either using no light at all, or sparingly using a very dim red light. If you must use a light, even briefly, covering one eye will protect that eye’s night sensitivity while sacrificing the other’s to the temporary “flash blindness.” Flashlights sold to astronomers are universally red, despite some thought that green might be more effective. Rigel Systems makes a continuously variable LED flashlight, powered by a 9-volt battery, that’s available in several color variations. The all-red or red/white light is marketed to astronomers, and green versions are sold to folks who use night vision gear. A simple thumbwheel adjusts the light output.

Red or Green-Yellow? The two theories might be summarized like this:

To read a map or star chart you need to use your photopic (cone) vision because your scotopic vision will not allow you to read the details. Because you want to minimize flash blindness, you want to use the least amount of light possible, which means a dimmable yellow-green (555 nm) light source turned just high enough to read by. The downside is that you’re affecting the rods along with the cones at this wavelength.
Because you’re going to experience a limited amount of flash blindness no matter what, you can limit the effect on your cones by using a wavelength (deep red) that your rods can’t see and won’t respond to. Again, turn up the light only as much as needed to read your map. The downside is that the light required to see will be much more intense than if you were using yellow-green. (Editor’s Note: On many non-military maps, important lines are often printed in shades of red and will be invisible under a pure red light).
Astronomy groups generally forbid the use of anything but red lights after dark at star parties, so they’ve cast their vote. If you’re interested in experimenting for yourself, Rigel can make a red/green dimmable light on special order. Note: a green light will not allow you to distinguish the wooded (green) areas on a topographical map.

Daytime Strategies. Extensive research with pilots has ascertained that a day spent in bright sunlight can significantly affect night vision. Studies have shown that ten consecutive days of sunlight exposure cut our nighttime visual acuity, visibility range, and contrast discrimination in half. With enough daily exposures to sunlight, normal rod sensitivity may not be reached at all, something to consider if you’re vying for the job as cabana boy at Club Med, Bora-Bora. Fifteen percent transmission sunglasses with full spectrum (gray) lenses are recommended to best protect night vision. An ironic note to summiteers and alpine fans is that high altitude negatively affects night vision, diminishing it a reported 5% at 3,500 feet, 20% at 10,000 feet and 35% at 13,000 feet. Tying up the package are the facts that advancing age and, for all you backpacking smokers, the carbon monoxide in tobacco smoke also degrade night vision. With all these factors working against us, it’s a wonder we can see at all in the mountains after sundown, so you might want to take a light along on those two a.m. bathroom breaks to keep from wandering off that cliff.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00202.html?forum_thread_id=4#.U2ZPeSinCKc
 

Dmski

Adventurer
Great references guys thanks! I'm thinking the best option is to go with white bulbs and spray the inside of the lenses.

On another note, does anyone use LED light bars with tinted yellow covers as fog lights? I've seen a few and am impressed with the amount of light output, but they are lacking in the technology to really point that light down field. I feel its just too much light too close, which is good for slower off highway use, but not as useful for on road. Thoughts here?
 

kojackJKU

Autism Family Travellers!
You don't want intense light for fog. I have Hella yellow fogs on my jeep, You turn them on on clear nights you cant even really see them, but in snow, rain and fog, they give you much better visability and cut down on glare. They work great.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
...
On another note, does anyone use LED light bars with tinted yellow covers as fog lights? ...
It's not how you make a foglight.

JW Speaker and Trucklight both have LED foglights but neither are in yellow; a cover or filter of any kind will just reduce the amount of light produced.
I have the JWS foglights; they are very good ---- as foglights. For driving slowly in fog.

Hella makes a couple of very decent foglights worth considering. They have a 90mm that I think uses an H7 --- you can get a 65w Osram bulb and spray the lens with Duplicolor. Hard to beat.
Or their Micro DE --- same thing, spray the lens if you can't find a selective yellow one.

Bosch Compact 100 fogs are good too and I think they had one with yellow lenses; reasonable price and good performance.

Cibie makes a couple of really good performers too. Go on Daniel Stern's website and check those out.

If you're talking about a driving light though, I don't see the point of coloring the lens. Just get a good halogen set like the Hella Rallye 4000 in the Euro beam. The color temperature is already very good and the pattern is great for driving at speed.

As long as this has morphed into a general vehicle light theory thread, I'll quote the venerable moderator of Candlepower Forum:

Scheinwerfermann said:
SPD:

The visible portion of sunlight is a continuous spectrum from red to violet, with no gaps. The visible portion of a glowing filament (which is a blackbody radiator) is likewise a continuous spectrum from red to violet, with no gaps. The spectrum of an HID lamp is a series of peaks and valleys. The light is superabundant in certain wavelengths (colours), relatively deficient in others, and absolutely deficient in still others. So from the standpoint of SPD, halogen headlamps actually are much closer to sunlight than HIDs. Which is better? Well..."better" is tricky to define here, because it really depends on what exactly we're trying to do with the light we're creating. In general, a continuous spectrum (rather than a peaks-and-valleys spectrum) is better, because it makes it easier to get a higher CRI, which I'll get to in a moment. But that's definitely not an inviolable rule! Sometimes (as for example when driving through fog or snow) we want to filter out a portion (blue to violet, in this case) of the spectrum. And for general illumination, there are many excellent discontinuous-spectrum lights (fluorescents, HIDs, LEDs, etc.), though this is not an either/or situation. The old fluorescent lights and mercury vapour street lamps produced yucky-looking light because of gross excesses and deficiencies (peaks and valleys) in the spectrum, but today's phosphor and halide technologies are giving us fluoro, HID, and LED lights that may have a peaky spectrum, but contain enough of the various wavelengths to produce a good-quality light. It is worth noting here that there is no such a thing as "full-spectrum" light. The term is used by marketers of everything from headlight bulbs to seasonal affective disorder lights to reading lamps to new fluoro tubes for your kitchen, but it means whatever any particular marketeer wants it to mean. There is no standard definition — not even close.



CRI:

Obviously, not all sunlight is the same, so a set of conditions has been standardised. In greatly simplified terms, the conditions can be understood as "noonday sun on a clear day". This is considered to be a CRI of 1.00 (sometimes stated as "100"). There is no light of CRI higher than 100, and a higher CRI is always better than a lower one except in certain very specialised lighting tasks (as for example in photographic darkrooms or in situations where ordinarily-tangential factors such as preservation of night vision, rather than ordinary factors like effective illumination, are the priority). A properly-fed tungsten-halogen filament lamp with a colourless glass or quartz envelope has a CRI of between 0.9 and 0.99 ("90" and "99"). Current-production automotive HIDs have CRI of between 0.7 and 0.74 ("70" and "74"). So, again, from the standpoint of CRI, halogen headlamps are closer to natural sunlight than HIDs.



CCT:

This is measured in Kelvins (not "degrees Kelvin" as is sometimes incorrectly stated), and is directly keyed to the kelvin temperature of a blackbody radiator. In this scale, there is no such thing as "better/worse", just different/same/similar. The standardised sunlight conditions described above are considered to have a CCT of 6500K. Automotive HIDs (real ones, not ones that have been jiggered to produce bluer-than-standard light) are between 4000K and 4500K. Properly-fed tungsten-halogens are between 3100K and 3450K. So, in this respect, automotive HID headlamps are closer to sunlight.

Now, what are the safety performance implications? Enough research has been done to show that the poorer CRI of HID headlamps is of no safety consequence. Stop signs still look sufficiently red, for example, and guide signs still look yellow enough. The SPD might be causing some glare-related problems. Automotive HIDs have a high spike in the blue-violet region, and there's pretty good evidence that just as some people are glare-sensitive and some are not, some people are blue-sensitive and some are not. This is not a medical condition or disability, it's just a human variance like nose size or eye colour. There's also prety good evidence that at any given intensity, headlamp light with a higher proportion of blue light causes more glare than headlamp light with a lower proportion of blue in it. There is competing evidence, however — yes, academic researchers do compete with one another, with theories and studies and data instead of long-jumping frogs or whatever — suggesting that a higher blue content improves certain aspects of drivers' night vision. Scientifically this one hasn't been shaken all the way out yet, and it's possible both effects might exist simultaneously to some degree. From a marketing perspective, the question is moot; the decision's been made to push more and more towards the direction of bluish-white car lights.

Up to now, most of the research has effectively conflated CCT and SPD, because of the limitations of the headlamp light sources available for study: Tungsten-halogen bulbs have a high CRI, a continuous SPD, and a relatively low CCT. HIDs have a low CRI, a discontinuous SPD, and a relatively high CCT. This is to some degree an implementational limitation, not a conceptual one, and in my opinion it is likely to be found, eventually, that a blue-rich SPD can cause glare problems but a high CCT can potentially improve seeing performance. That is going to be a tricky balance to optimise, for high CCT to a significant degree goes along with blue-rich SPD. But we're now seeing LEDs that have a higher CCT than HID headlamp bulbs, but without a proportionately higher blue spike. It will be interesting to see what shakes out of this. The marketeers may have to find another tactic, having already painted themselves into a corner using blue paint: up to now, the bogus claim of "whiter" headlamp light has been used to refer to light that is in fact bluer. When it becomes possible to provide headlamp light that is of higher CRI and higher CCT rather than just higher in blue content, that light will in a more real sense be "whiter" than HID headlamp light...but what are they going to call it...?
 

kojackJKU

Autism Family Travellers!
Mine are the 450 Hellas that were bought yellow. I think that is a better way to go then spraying the lens.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
The 450 fog is decent --- you can also get the 550 fog in yellow.
They're not my favorites but they do throw more light than the Micro DE. They're sorta ugly though... ...I like the Cibie Tangos better. More old school looking.
 

Stroverlander

Adventurer
I like selective yellow myself. Some people are more sensitive to glare and selective yellow tends to be less aggravating to those individuals.

The film, no matter how good it is or what the manufacturer purports to have accomplished in "optical clarity", will reduce the light output by 15-20%. Take away another 5-15% for the filter (yellow is filtering out blues and greens, etc).

There are no really good tinted bulbs either. None.

Use the best clear bulb you can find (not a tinted blue bulb like PIAA or Silverstar rubbish) & try a product from Duplicolor called Metalcast Yellow and give your lenses a light coat from the inside. Make sure you prep the glass by cleaning it very well.
I've used this method with very good success; I learned it from Daniel Stern.
Read more about selective yellow here.

So film reduces light output but spray painting the lens does not? Thanks for that link, I glossed over it but didn't really find an answer though I'll go back an read in depth later.

I've always been sensitive to glare and used to run yellow Hella 550 fogs on my old BMW which I thought made an appreciable difference in snow/fog/mist for my eyes. The 550s were de rigueur back then and replaced damaged Bosch fogs on that 320i. The Bosch were already cracked from stone chips but also damaged further when I melted some of the wiring on my first attempt at auto electrical repair in high school! I did have a bit more success installing the 550s though! :sombrero:
 

kojackJKU

Autism Family Travellers!
I would have run the bigger 550s but they would not fit under my 500s. So the 450s fit perfect, and give me great crap weather performance.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
So film reduces light output but spray painting the lens does not? Thanks for that link, I glossed over it but didn't really find an answer though I'll go back an read in depth later. ...
Every filter reduces output. Some more than others though.
The protective film is both another lens and a filter though. There are thinner colored filters that you can buy, the sort of things that they use for stage lighting ---- work much better than the films.
The spray paint is just so easy and works quite well.

Why not pick up another pair of 550s if you liked them? They're not expensive and are easy to source.
 

JeepinJon

Observer
Every filter reduces output. Some more than others though.
The protective film is both another lens and a filter though. There are thinner colored filters that you can buy, the sort of things that they use for stage lighting ---- work much better than the films.
The spray paint is just so easy and works quite well.

Why not pick up another pair of 550s if you liked them? They're not expensive and are easy to source.

I understand that the more lenses and filters you add to a light the more each layer reduces output, and it varies depending on each lens/filters performance rating, but if you have a light with changable lenses would that perform better than a filter, or a film? For example I am getting some Baja Designs Squadrons and the lenses are changable between clear and yellow. Based in this would I be better off adding a yellow lens vs adding a yellow film to the clear lens?
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
I understand that the more lenses and filters you add to a light the more each layer reduces output, and it varies depending on each lens/filters performance rating, but if you have a light with changable lenses would that perform better than a filter, or a film? For example I am getting some Baja Designs Squadrons and the lenses are changable between clear and yellow. Based in this would I be better off adding a yellow lens vs adding a yellow film to the clear lens?
Probably --- but, like you said, it depends...

And filters on LEDs are a ponderous thing. You don't always get what you expect from them due to the wonky SPD. I doubt that I'd fiddle with the color on a Squadron, if it were me. I'd just look for the beam that had the pattern that I wanted.
 

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