running a 24v winch on a 12v system

[greengreer]

This is actually for my work truck, but i thought you expo guys might be able to help.
So i found a 18k lb warn 24v winch locally for cheap to go on my 97 f350 that i use for my tree business. It is heavy and likes to get stuck. I have had to use a double line pull twice now with the 12k winch i have. This truck is usually about 10k without a load, and probably up to or more than 16k with a load of chips or wood in the bed.
So far the only and best way i can figure is to run a second pair of batteries in series and a second 24v alternator. I would also consider upgrading my electric motor on the dump bed to 24v as well. Is there another way to do this? Would i be better off just saving to buy a 12v winch? I kno by the time i buy more batteries, alternator, etc i've gotten close to spending the same money, but for a system that will be used nearly every day (pulling trees too) i feel its worthwhile.
What do yall think? Thanks.

 

[verdesardog]

Probably the less expensive thing to do would be to change out the motor on the winch....

 

[zelatore]

There's no easy way to run a big 24v draw like a winch on a 12v system. You're right on with having to add a second battery.
FWIW, the 24v unit should be more efficient than the same thing in 12v. You'd at least have an easier time running the cables since you'll need have the current for the same power. If you really are using it a lot, that may help you decided to go with the 24v. Of course, I think you also now know why it's cheap....not a lot of 24v rigs out there.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Would hydraulic be an option? Milemarker has an 18,000 lbs hydraulic winch. The capacity remains across various pumps but the higher the flow rate the faster the line speed. But they'll work down with pumps as low as 4 GPM but something in the 10 to 15 GPM would be best.

Adding a second battery and charging system would work but if you use your regular starting battery you'll have to isolate the truck's electrical system from the second battery. IOW, you can't just put both in series without doing something more. You'd essentially have to make the battery a 24V system with a 24V alternator and configure a 12V tap into your existing system.

 

[greengreer]

I read about people buying surplus 24v humvee winches and converting them to 12v. That may workout to be the cheapest option and undoubtedly the most simple.

I am thinking that leaving the 12v system alone, and adding a second 24v alternator with a seperate set of batteries just for the winch ( and maybe hydraulic pump) would be about the only way to go. I am sure there is another way but this is all i can figure.
Packaging is a non issue, the batteries would easily fit in the toolbox. The biggest issue is the second alternator. Afaik ford didnt offer dual alternators on this truck, just one huge one.

Also i would love hydraulic but i dont like the idea of using my powersteering pump or the cost.
I am kind of liking the 24v idea though. Keeping the winch from taxing the vehicle batteries and th efficiency of the 24v seems like a good idea to me.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you're adding a second alternator and it requires fabrication you can probably just as easily install a dedicated hydraulic pump so you wouldn't have to use the power steering. There are surplus military hydraulics floating around up to 45,000 lbs. Search for the 10,500 lbs winch from the M998/HMMWV, that is probably just as strong as any of the Warn and Milemarker commercial units.

 

[1stDeuce]

What you want to do is feasible, but you'd want to do it like the military did on CUCV's. Basically, they have one normal 12v alternator charging the "bottom" 12v battery, and then one isolated ground alternator charging the "top" 12v battery, with the batteries wired in series for 24v. So each battery has it's own alternator, and you still have the "bottom" 12v battery to run all the 12v stuff in the truck, but also 24v for those loads too. (Just starter/glow and the radio wiring in the case of a CUCV, the rest of the truck runs on 12v.)

Makes for a pretty strong system, with each alternator putting out close to 100A. (200A at 24V is pretty good!!)

Because you have a decent amount of 12v load, that would be about the only way to do it properly. If you just get a 24v alternator and run stuff off the "bottom" battery, you'll kill it, as it won't charge properly. I should probably explain that I consider the "bottom" battery to be the one with the ground attached to the chassis, which makes the positive 12v. If you go to the "top" battery, and check against chassis ground, you'll find 12v at the ground terminal and 24v at the positive...

 

[Arclight]

Get out the phone book and call up some motor repair shops. It's not uncommon to get expensive and specialty motors rewound instead of replacing them. Most major towns have one of these shops, and they aren't that expensive. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they could convert your winch motor to 12V for a reasonable fee.

Arclight

This is actually for my work truck, but i thought you expo guys might be able to help.
So i found a 18k lb warn 24v winch locally for cheap to go on my 97 f350 that i use for my tree business. It is heavy and likes to get stuck. I have had to use a double line pull twice now with the 12k winch i have. This truck is usually about 10k without a load, and probably up to or more than 16k with a load of chips or wood in the bed.
So far the only and best way i can figure is to run a second pair of batteries in series and a second 24v alternator. I would also consider upgrading my electric motor on the dump bed to 24v as well. Is there another way to do this? Would i be better off just saving to buy a 12v winch? I kno by the time i buy more batteries, alternator, etc i've gotten close to spending the same money, but for a system that will be used nearly every day (pulling trees too) i feel its worthwhile.
What do yall think? Thanks.

 

[DaveInDenver]

What you want to do is feasible, but you'd want to do it like the military did on CUCV's. Basically, they have one normal 12v alternator charging the "bottom" 12v battery, and then one isolated ground alternator charging the "top" 12v battery, with the batteries wired in series for 24v. So each battery has it's own alternator, and you still have the "bottom" 12v battery to run all the 12v stuff in the truck, but also 24v for those loads too. (Just starter/glow and the radio wiring in the case of a CUCV, the rest of the truck runs on 12v.)

What you're describing is the top battery is floating. It's a common technique for a lot of things and why engineers are careful to refer to circuit ground, neutral and return as separate things. A circuit does not have to go to ground to be complete, it just needs a way to return current to the source. There's probably diodes to prevent current flow across the 12V & 24V systems.