Overland Vehicle Notes

penguincoder

Observer
Hi everyone, I am a bit new to this kind of outdoorsing, so i would like to throw out my notes on an overland vehicle here. I don't fully expect anyone to have anything useful to add, but I will appreciate any feedback from the local membership. I have owned a 4x4 before: it was a 1982 Jeep CJ7. As an experience, it was amazing. As a vehicle, it was total crap. I hate smelling like exhaust and gasoline, I hate removing the entire front hubs to replace rotors, the five speed (while better than most) sucked, the engine ran at 19 oil PSI and could barely get out of its own way up a hill... And it didn't need the keys to run. Lovely. So in true I-just-had-a-baby-and-I-need-to-sell-my-hobbies, I sold the Jeep. It's worth mentioning that I kept my MK4 Mini. Apparently that was the "good idea" at the time.

I am not going into the offroad community blind, rather, I have had many experiences using quads and the Jeep in question. I think I enjoyed it more so than any of my close friends and now I have an opportunity to jump back in full-force and I would like to take it.

I know what it's like to work on a car, even fruitlessly. I am moving up in the world. I like the idea of a luxurious offroader. Ever since my friends brought a Canadian AWD Ford Aerostar and we all lavished in the relative luxury while taming the same trails as the Jeep, I realized that offroading can be more sophisticated than gasoline exhause. And nicer to us old fogey dads.

I am going to buy a capable offroader for my next vehicle. I have a list of researched vehicles that I am considering... and a list of vehicles that are already off the list. I am a software developer by trade, and computers do not intimidate me in the least. I can pry them apart and gut the insides and put them all back together afterwards... And I have never worked myself into a corner I couldn't get out of later. I embrace computerization and prefer it.

My musts:
* Carburetion will not be tolerated.
* More-speed automatic is better than less-speeds automatic.
* Air suspension provides all of the benefits of a lift kit without any of the downsides.
* Passive keyless is a definite plus.
* Push button ignition is great.
* Heated seats or I will choose something else.
* 7 seats is not required, but it does help.
* Bluetooth phone, aux input, dashboard satellite navigation, phone apps, etc.
* Ability to carry two full-size spare tires. I think the stress of driving as far as northern Alaska will be helped if I know I have more than one spare, plus tire kits.

If my electronic desires cannot be sourced, they can be added aftermarket. Unless you are a 100-Series LandCruiser with built-in navigation. Then you are pretty much a soccer-mom van until the A/C is worthless.

My desire:

I am going to drive to Dead Horse at Prudhoe Bay. This is a thing that I have decided I can do in the summer with a little more trail experience. I intend to make several shorter trips to ensure that I have the necessary skills and that I wish to pursue this past-time. After that, I would like to drive to Ushuaia if my Spanish improves. I don't intend to take the most difficult path, but I don't want to be stranded, either. I am going to drive this vehicle for a while. My still-current vehicle (Subaru Impreza WRX) I have owned for 6 years and I owned the Jeep for 9 years. I like building a relationship with a car. This is not an easy choice for me. After a solid month of internet-based research, i'm still just as confused as when I started, but my budget is just a bit higher. If anyone has any real experiences they can share, please do. I still intend to have several rounds of in-seat driving time before I make a final decision. I will not be including "expedition gear" in my cost of ownership, since every vehicle on the list will require these items. These are things like a winch, roof rack, jerries, sliders, protection, drawers, etc.

Disclosure: The LR4 is my most favorite pick thus far, and that's why this thread is in the Land Rover forum. There are no appropriate 'Getting Started in Overland Travel' or 'Which Vehicle' forums to choose. I apologize beforehand if this was an imprudent choice.

I think it might be helpful to disclose what is _not_ on the menu, first.

# 80 Series Land Cruiser. It's old and doesn't have a V8.
# 100 Series Land Cruiser. This is a very capable offroader. There is nothing wrong with it, other than the necessary reconditioning. I can perform all of the reconditioning -- down to the short block if necessary -- and it might be fun... But this truck is long in tooth and it's only "okay" inside. I could totally fit an aftermarket passive keyless entry, push button ignition, and built-in satellite navigation... And at the end of the day it's a 10 year old vehicle with more than 100k miles on it.
# 200 Series Land Cruiser. It looked nice initially, especially with that 5.7L V8. I don't think it is the same kind of vehicle as the 100 series. It is at least a lot heavier than the older ones. Plus, I can't buy one with less than 80K miles and it's _still_ $40K. This seems like a lot for such a truck.
# Tacoma. It's not a HiLux, and it's North American market, only.
# Ford F-150 Aluminum Body truck. It doesn't have an 8 speed automatic, even with the amazing twin-turbo V6.
# Dodge Power Wagon. Super nice truck. No 8 speed and it's a 3/4 ton truck, which I can't justify driving around day-to-day.
# Ford Explorer. Too small in the back.
# Ford Econoline. I am not driving a van.
# Nissan. The insides haven't been updated since the '90s. Nothing wrong technically, just not nice inside.
# Chevy. What?
# Honda. Nothing interests me.

This brings me to my remaining list. These are vehicles I feel like have some semi-serious off-road capabilities and some on-road comforts.

# Land Rover LR4. Great looking truck. Probably the best choice, but fitting common aftermarket tires will be challenging due to the stock wheel sizes. Otherwise ticks all the marks. If I go balls-to-the-wall, I can buy a new-new one with an 8-speed auto, but that financially restricts some choices afterwards... It can ford 850mm of water stock. LR also has Terrain Response, which is a fully electronic/computerized response to offroading. It selects when to low-range, diff-lock, and all of the other settings for you. That's pretty nice.
# Land Rover Range Rover Sport Supercharged. 2009+ model year. I have always wanted 500+ HP and this will do it. Probably nicer to drive with most of the offroadability of the LR4, but in a smaller footprint. Terrain Response.
# Toyota 4-Runner 5th Gen Trail Edition - It has most of the off-road tick-marks with electronic aids to supplement the rest. Seems to be big and light enough. The really annoying thing is that the limited has push-button ignition and no 4wd. The 4wd has none of the high-end luxuries that the limited has. However, it's a Toyota, with all that is implied from that statement.
# Mercedes G-Class. I can't really get a nice one of those. My budget restricts me to about $40k. I might be able to get an okay one for that without electrical gremlins. It requires nothing other that tires and expedition gear. That is nice. Maybe a sway-bar disconnect. Maybe. However, there is genuine concern that I might not want or be able to afford to drive the thing after I purchase it.
# 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Outdoorsman. It has a nice 5.7L Hemi, 8 speed auto, locking diffs, and an on-demand air suspension that lifts the truck out of the way when needed. It can have heated seats, 4 doors and a full size pickup bed for less than my desired budget. It also has the downside of holding groceries in the bed, being the size of the Hindenburg, and not being anywhere near as nice as any of the others in the list on the inside. Capable though. Very capable.
# 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. This model year introduced heated, leather seats. Still has the center console window switches, though. And it's Chrysler on the inside. Requires no modifications other than expedition gear, but it is a bit small. It's the only convertible and I think that some of my familia might like a convertible.
# 2011 or newer Toyota FJ Cruiser. It's small, which I don't like, but I do like everything else about it. ATRAC, e-locking rear diff, 400W AC outlet inside, suicide doors, classy retro styling up front, upright windscreen, no suspension modifications for big tires. But it's small. I doubt this will do well without a cumbersome trailer to tow all of the things I require for my cooking and my girls.

I think that sums up my preliminary list of trucks I have selected. Most of them don't require many, if any, modifications. I don't believe in adding a giant lift kit to your Jeep Rubicon simply because that's what Good Ole Boys Do. I have a very specific set of needs that must be fulfilled, all of which does not require a gigantic lift kit, aftermarket superchargers, dukes of hazzard horns, etc. I want to go places. Comfortably. Reliably.

My favorite features:

# Heated seats. Cooled is a plus, but not required.
# Passive keyless entry. Hotness.
# Push button ignition. Keys are so bourgeois.
# Rotary gear selection. There is no reason to have legacy column or floor shifters any more. There are no mechanical linkages any more.
# 8 Speed Automatics. I have never owned an automatic in all of my 14 different vehicles, but if I should go for an auto, I should go for broke on gears. Plus the +2 MPG is great from my perspective: I hate to waste resources.
# Locking diffs. I realize that almost all of the Land Rover candidates do not have the HD package, but I will make do. Having one or more would be really nice for when I get stuck up the creek and really need some mechanical help.
# Touring range. Big tanks are really helpful. Plus cargo capacity. I need to be able to carry food, fuel, and people over a distance that is not comfortable sans filling stations.

Can anyone post any pros or cons to any of the vehicles listed? Or not listed! I have done so much research it's just a giant waffle at this point. I need to drive every one of my candidates (preferably multiple copies) before I make any final decision, of course. But for now, I would appreciate the opinions of those who have gone to both ends of the financial extreme and what their experiences might be.
 
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LocoCoyote

World Citizen
Without going into the grisly details.....the LR4 (Discovery 4 over here ) is an excellent choice. I have driven them often (both on and off road) and I think you will not be disappointed.
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
Get a longranger supplemental gas tank and a kaymar rear bumper with two tire swing outs fitted to an LR4 and go have fun.... and a GAP tool.

The Sport is going to be too small for you (based on your observation that the JKU is too small)

I think your fixation on an 8 speed is ridiculous, especially since you don't drive an automatic to begin with, but that's just my opinion.

You might check out the full size Range Rover as well. Not as roomy as the LR4 for cargo, but ticks many other items on your list.

As for Nissan, your comment about the 90's in odd. The 2006 Armada I drive has one of the best NAV systems of any car I've ever driven, and it's a supremely comfortable long distance machine. The Titan is similar if you have a penchant for trucks.
 
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haven

Expedition Leader
"I am going to drive to Dead Horse at Prudhoe Bay...After that, I would like to drive to Ushuaia"

No need for a Land Rover. Your Subaru would make the first trip just fine. The drive to South America might be a problem for the WRX because Subaru recommends 91 octane gas. Premium fuel is available in many places along the Transamericana, just not all.

Here's a thread that shows a few low cost upgrades to improve the performance of a Subaru for driving on poor roads and mild trails.
http://expeditionportal.com/a-budget-overlander-forester-part-i-capability/
http://expeditionportal.com/a-budget-overlander-forester-part-ii-protection/
 

Plannerman

Wandering Explorer
The LR4 is a gorgeous plush vehicle and an excellent choice.

From your list, I'd suggest placing the 4runner next in line. However, I'd say get the trail edition and upgrade the seats to heated leather via aftermarket products. The 4runner is an AMAZING vehicle.

Next, I'd say Tacoma. It is not a Hilux, but don't think this is a great bit to select it. They share SO MANY components. They are close brothers, really, with the Tacoma offering more towing capacity and a bigger cabin. Again, add leather seats with heaters and go.

The Wrangler is an excellent choice but has limited cargo capacity. Otherwise, reliable and capable.

The Dodge Ram would also be a great choice (although I would opt for the diesel). I continue to be impressed with my wife's 2500. We added leather seats and it easily the nicest vehicle I've ever owned.


Sent via fat thumb
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
The drive to South America might be a problem for the WRX because Subaru recommends 91 octane gas. Premium fuel is available in many places along the Transamericana, just not all.


That's a great point Chip. The LR4 and/or the FFRR would also require 91 octane
 

penguincoder

Observer
I think your fixation on an 8 speed is ridiculous, especially since you don't drive an automatic to begin with, but that's just my opinion.

You might actually be on to something. I think it is a case of too-much-internet-research.

I just compared the differences in gear ratios between the ZF 6HP and the 8HP and they are really similar. Top two overdrive gears are the same, first gear is a little bit lower in the 8HP, and otherwise the 8HP just adds a gear in between 1-2 and 3-4. That might be just fuel economy gearing... So the 8 speed only needs to be considered if fuel economy is a top concern. Which it should not be in a Rover.

Discounting that feature opens up my budget a lot more for a more affordable early model year LR4 rather than apparently a 6 or more month wait on a shiny new one. I can get the fun full steel bumpers and stuff earlier :)
 

penguincoder

Observer
That's a great point Chip. The LR4 and/or the FFRR would also require 91 octane

They will require high-oc, but you should be able to run it on lower octane fuel but at the cost of additional consumption and reduced output. The Central/South America portions of the journey are still tentative (re language barrier), so I am not placing a high priority on features that are specific to that portion of the journey.

There is no chance I am driving 9000 miles in that Subaru. A pile of stones or a Black edition Mercedes is more comfortable than this car. I'm sure it could handle the road just fine, though.
 

penguincoder

Observer
The LR4 is a gorgeous plush vehicle and an excellent choice.

From your list, I'd suggest placing the 4runner next in line. However, I'd say get the trail edition and upgrade the seats to heated leather via aftermarket products. The 4runner is an AMAZING vehicle.

There are two or three at the Toyota dealership in town I used to work at. I think I am going to go try one of those after the Range Rover Sport test drive.
 

mapper

Explorer
If I was in your shoes I'd buy converted Sprinter Van without question or hesitation. Case closed.

IF you don't care about how much fuel you burn go Sportsmobile. For long trips nothing beats a van...but you don't wanna drive one...which is too bad for you guys.

Honestly every one of the vehicles mentioned on either the naughty and nice lists are more than capable of the job if it is in good repair.

Buy whatever you think looks the "coolest" and has the most comfortable seats. If I were you I'd buy LR and call it a day. Since you posted here that's what your "gut" tells you and given the options you may as well follow the gut. Well, assuming you don't care about depreciation (If you do, buy the LC 200)

BTW, Cadillac Escalade probably ticks all the appropriate boxes including a big gas tank. For that matter, provided vans are a no go....if I was doing the North American part of your trip, with family I'd probably use a diesel Excursion. Call the northern bit a test run. If you like it, head south. If not, follow the gut.
 

penguincoder

Observer
If I was in your shoes I'd buy converted Sprinter Van without question or hesitation. Case closed.

IF you don't care about how much fuel you burn go Sportsmobile. For long trips nothing beats a van...but you don't wanna drive one...which is too bad for you guys.

Honestly every one of the vehicles mentioned on either the naughty and nice lists are more than capable of the job if it is in good repair.

Buy whatever you think looks the "coolest" and has the most comfortable seats. If I were you I'd buy LR and call it a day. Since you posted here that's what your "gut" tells you and given the options you may as well follow the gut. Well, assuming you don't care about depreciation (If you do, buy the LC 200)

BTW, Cadillac Escalade probably ticks all the appropriate boxes including a big gas tank. For that matter, provided vans are a no go....if I was doing the North American part of your trip, with family I'd probably use a diesel Excursion. Call the northern bit a test run. If you like it, head south. If not, follow the gut.

Those things certainly have the space! That's good advice, thanks.
 

penguincoder

Observer
It's time for good-news/bad-news.

Good news! I went to the dealer in town that has a RR Sport.

Bad news! He was not there. This is one of those teeny tiny dealers that doesn't even have a finance department. The guy that owns it found a RRS at auction, bought it, and then stuck a big red license plate on it so he can drive it around as his personal vehicle for a while. When he's finally done with it, he'll put it on the lot for sale. Kind of a bummer, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Other news!

I went to the Toyota/Chrysler dealership in town and I got to try the following vehicles in person:

# 2014 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4WD
# 2014 Dodge Ram Laramie Quad Cab
# 2014 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
# 2014 Toyota Tundra

The last one isn't on any list, but as I have mentioned... I worked here previously. I entertained the notion to listen to one of my former coworker's advice.

What is the bottom line?

All of my internet research is for naught. The best research is by the seat-of-your-pants. Get in them and drive. I had 4 very different experiences even though I had 4 very different prejudiced expectations about each vehicle based on what I have read. The "worst" was the 4Runner. It was not bad, but not great at anything. The next was the Tundra. The Ram was surprisingly good and extremely opulent. There was leather just ... everywhere. And it was enormous. Also, it was full of what they call "the beans" when you put your foot down. Far and away the best handling vehicle I drove today. I totally get the 8-speed auto being unnecessary. All it did was keep the Hemi at 500-rpm shifts for light-duty throttle. Also, it had ventilated seats. I love those, too, now. It's not required... but if I can... :)

The best drive today (much to my dismay) was the Wrangler. I have driven an older one without the Pentastar, and it was okay much like the 4Runner is "okay". The Wrangler with the Pentastar, however, is delightful. That engine is great. It's light and it drives like my old Jeep (not necessarily a compliment). The audio quality sucks a lot, though. After I realized what was going on, I was really surprised at how bad it really is in a Wrangler. I can probably survive with the low-quality audio all things considered. Also, it's the only convertible on the list. That counts for something. The size is a good balance between too-small and holy-cow-enormous. This may seem weird, but the seats in the Wrangler are actually the correct width for me. The ones in the Ram are too wide for my tastes as they are designed for... more exuberant customers.

Given my prior experiences, the best thing I have to say is that I still have several luxury SUV's to drive, and I can't wait to experience them. I hope that I like the LR4 as much as I want to, but as today's lesson revealed: nobody can impress that experience upon me before I get in and drive the truck around myself.

Heckuva lesson learned today.
 

Frdmskr

Adventurer
One interesting nite I read elsewhere (thus not my original thought) is if taking your vehicle outside the US consider availability of gas and parts. Lower octane and diesel may be more available than high octane or mid grade. You can't always find a dodge dealer but. Land Rover dealer (or club) may be more accessible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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