One does not need to presently own a LR to be a LR enthusiast. I think the P38 is a POS- yes. Which is ironic considering this is the example I would most like to own. No stones were thrown excepting a few rather small ones at the present LR marketing and product direction. My British car history is extensive, so I get the addiction thing, just not the way the company is going. The LR guys I hang with are all old school solid axle types. A very comforting, earthy and green experience. LR pioneered this niche ( the vehicle of choice for unsupported travel in inhospitable places), nurtured and owned it absolutely world wide for decades and then truly lost it to 'upstart' manufacturers for a variety of reasons which have been beaten to death. Your modern LR requires more computing power than NORAD possessed in the late '80's to achieve it's truly impressive off road performance. Some people like myself are not quite comfortable with that yet. No disrespect intended.
LR3 Ownership Update - Eight Weeks
- Thread starter Angry_Man
- Start date
I think we can agree about the current marketing strategy of LR. They seem enamored with pushing more and more toward the luxury market and less and less toward the actual off-road market. And while I like the concept of going old-school and doing away with about 75% of the computing power, it's just not going to happen with any modern vehicle. OK, LR has gotten a little further down that road than some, but everybody is going that direction like it or not. When it works it's great. When it fails it's not like the old days when you could just look at it and jury rig around the problem. Best case you have something like the GAP IId tool to resolve computer issues, but that will only go so far.
Sorry to come down on you. I expected the typical 'Toyotas are great, Rovers are crap' argument and figured you were just another Toyota guy coming over to start a pissing match. I personally admit Toyotas are very reliable, but I just have no love for them. I've never owned one, but the wife has - I thought it was one of the worst, most un-safe vehicles I'd ever driven, but it did always start!
BTW, the comment about having the truck not fully in park is familiar. On our last club outing a RRC wouldn't start in the morning after a particularly tough day/night getting to camp that had the husband/wife owners snipping at each other when they finally did arrive. We all jumped on the truck and started tracing wring to the starter and solenoid only to have somebody walk over and ask 'is it in park?'. Answer-no. The husband/driver had been so flustered when he got to camp he backed into his spot and just shut it off without shifting out of reverse.
I think the present Land Cruiser 200 is hideous and Toyota has not had a car in recent memory I would buy. Perhaps a Hilux but we don't get those, too small for me anyway. Same way LR is headed. Chuck the stalwart, faithful under the bus in the race to big money with the Rodeo Drive set. If they screw up the Defender as much as I think they will..
That is why I have a 22 year old 80 series. Think of it as an evolutionary step between the RRC and a P38. No wood or leather but wheel wells that will swallow a 37 inch tire without metalwork. You'd likely feel safe, but not impressed aesthetically.
The LONE positive thing Toyota is doing is continuing with the 70 series in it's various guises. The just keep putting stronger engines in it for the Australians to tow ridiculous caravans to Fraser Island! This proves there is a strong market for this basic kind of platform. It exists in Asia, Australia, Africa etc.. A solid axle Defender with (any) ergonomics, a torque monster diesel to compete with Toyota's 4.5 litre twin turbo V8 and a crash worthy roof/structure that will pass NHTSA perhaps? I would love to see that!
That is why I have a 22 year old 80 series. Think of it as an evolutionary step between the RRC and a P38. No wood or leather but wheel wells that will swallow a 37 inch tire without metalwork. You'd likely feel safe, but not impressed aesthetically.
The LONE positive thing Toyota is doing is continuing with the 70 series in it's various guises. The just keep putting stronger engines in it for the Australians to tow ridiculous caravans to Fraser Island! This proves there is a strong market for this basic kind of platform. It exists in Asia, Australia, Africa etc.. A solid axle Defender with (any) ergonomics, a torque monster diesel to compete with Toyota's 4.5 litre twin turbo V8 and a crash worthy roof/structure that will pass NHTSA perhaps? I would love to see that!
brickpaul65
Adventurer
Agreed, but I think MaxTrac are inferior amongst the options available so there you go
What alternatives to Maxtrax do you recommend? I am looking for a set of 4 in the future. I would really like a less expensive option. Looked at the treds too. I am mostly worried about mud as opposed to sand or snow. I don't mean 4 foot mud bogs either. Just in the event mire tires get caked due to my poor driving and clay.
Jwestpro
Explorer
You should read up on the sand/mud/bridge ladder review on this EP website. Search ought to dig it up easily.
My experience is with the Maxtrax other people have and the fiberglass waffle boards I got before ever reading about all this stuff or knowing about the forums. The waffle boards are 48"x12"x2". They work very well for bridging with only slight deflection whereas you can't truly "bridge" with the flexible Maxtrax. Well, anything you could "bridge" with those, you could probably also work your way through diagonally without them so really they are just helpers. The true rigid types will actually get you over a deep gap which would be otherwise impassable.
Had I known of the Mantec metal ladders 60"x(14" or so) before buying these fiberglass versions, I would have gotten those instead.
However, you mention cost. Mantec are like $500 or so where mine were only $100 ish for a pair and these fit in spaces more easily.
Currently I mount them on the LR3 sitting directly on the factory aluminum roof "tracks". This location makes them easy to retrieve yet entirely out of the way (not inside, not on the rear bumper, not dangling along the side windows, and not on top of the rack using up limited space) Mounted in this middle area, between roof glass and Hannibal rack they are out of the way but can also stay there if the rack is removed. Then they double as a standing platform for photos or route finding.
I am about to remove the 2/3 length "rear section" factory tracks to be replaced with full roof length factory track+forward raised rail/track. This will provide a longer continuous track and also allow for 2 more waffle boards to stow between the front Hannibal rack foot and the center. Currently the 2 waffle boards have been mounted between the center rack tower and the rear (there are only 3 mounts/towers, per side, for the 2.5M Hannibal rack).
Having 4 waffle boards, or bridging ladders, would greatly broaden the options for using them as follows:
2 get you easily over a crevasse or up a slight ledge. 4 can combine to get you up quite tall ledges by using the first at 45 degrees to the top lip then the 2nd only up about 1/2 way onto the first.
in snow or seriously terrible soft surface, 4 can be placed under each wheel, or, you can set up a continuous track on one side by moving one set forward while the 2 wheels on the one side are solidly on the other 2.
Of course with 8 you could could set up a continuous track for all 4 wheels. I've only thought of this in nasty snow outings....where I shouldn't have been trying to go in the first place probably
I forget what the Mantecs weigh, but be careful to recognize there are TWO metal versions. There are the "sand" tracks which are best in aluminum and could bridge a little if nested vs the steel "bridging" ladders which are wider and longer (60" long) (I think galvanized steel but aluminum would be really sweet, just as strong, much lighter, never rust)
I like how mounting these to the roof tracks allows them to double as a platform to stand on without the need for a rack. This way I only drop the rack on when I specifically want to have the rear or side awnings. Even the RTT will simply mount to the two aft cross bars used for the Hannibal rack so it's become very versatile this way.
Oh, about mud, the waffles could sink a bit in really soupy stuff. In that particular situation, the plastic Maxtrax probably do better than most other versions. However, it occurs to me that a very simple solution to make a waffle or other multi-holed device work better is to have some durable material under it cut to fit, snap on, wrap around, I'm not sure but basically a mud-blocker so the waffle won't just allow the mud to squeeze through the holes. ??
Maybe a heavy duty floor mat, like for a store entryway comes to mind, cut to shape and then usable for sand, snow, ice and slipping into almost anywhere for storage.
The last thing I love about the waffle or any device with some vertical dimension is for camping using them as vehicle levelers under a tire. Mixed with my "Choc-tracs" I can put over 6" each under 2 tires.
Think about overlapping uses. For example, the choc-tracs I have fold up into an "A" for a choc on any terrain, flatten out into a 36" mud/sand/snow traction device, and also work as a jack stand base, plus the vehicle leveling. They could also be a cooking hot plate or stove base
Jwestpro
Explorer
....this site, lots of cool stuff: http://www.okoffroad.com/stuff-sandladders-aluminum.htm
Apparently two sizes/strengths available in the aluminum sand tracks.
Expedition Exchange is also good.
Apparently two sizes/strengths available in the aluminum sand tracks.
Expedition Exchange is also good.
brickpaul65
Adventurer
Thanks for the reply! I also appreciate the mounting description/write up. What did you use to connect them to the current factory rails?