3FE Supporters (Enter here)

[ChuckB]

I know that there are a few 3FE enthusiasts around here (upcruiser, hltoppr, 60seriesguy). I have been doing some more thinking from my original post (see link) http://expeditionportal.com/forum/sh...7563#post17563

I'm coming to the logical conclusion that diesel is probably not going to be a feasible option mostly due to $$$. Rather than spend a ton of cash and have a nice shiny diesel motor, I'd rather spread that cash out on the rest of the vehicle. I have been thinking a lot about 2F/3FE/1FZ and my desires for this vehicle that I'm and building in my head.

Based on comments from the previous post above. I am thinking that a 3FE and H55F would probably suit my needs. (I'm pretty stuck on the truck being a manual). I have read elsewhere that this is a pretty good combination and really makes the 3FE come alive when seperated from the slushbox. (Looking for comments on this from current 3FE owners) If I go this route I would probably lean toward this set up in a FJ80 rather than a 60/62. I think that coil springs are probably worth a slightly heavier vechicle. Keep in mind I am not designing this to be a Daily Driver, but it probably will get driven a good amount.

Of course these are all just thoughts in my head and I wanted to see what you guys thought, since I will hopefully be joining you on a trip in the future.

[Joaquin Suave]

I would look at your ability to (one time, i believe) import a vehicle as military personel. Its been close to 20 years since I bought a car in Europe and went throught ALL the gray market riggamarole...BUT...If my memory serves me...
Military personel can bring a car into the country EXEMPT from DOT and EPA.

If that still is the case (kinda sure it is) then the spectrum of your possible vehicle choice has expanded greatly.

On another note...I'm the guy with the MBZ turbo-diesel in my Jeep...I'd trade all that "bolt-on sh*t" for a turbo-diesel ANY DAY!!! Once you've spooled up a turbo-diesel in a tough off-road section YOU ARE HOOKED FOR LIFE!!!

This is what I'd bring in

[pskhaat]

I have a 3F-E in my FJ40. Yes it does come alive with a manul tranny.

There is currently a 2H Toyota diesel for sale. The 2H as I understand it bolts to the existing 2F/3F motor mounts as well as the bellhousing; eliminating that major work. IIRC it's like $1200 (not bad).

You would be suprised how well the H42 does behind the 3F-E, it's consistently ~20% below the automatic in gearing and has the same # of gears obviously. Yes, H55f would be tops, but adding more $, H42 works beautifully.

Are you doing this to your 60 or purchasing an FJ80? There are many advantages to an FJ80 over an FZJ80 (search some of my other posts & responses).

Now, regardless of 60 | 80 (and since you have a 2F block in your 60) I would consider mating the 3F-E head onto a 2F block, then you have the benefits of more displacement, lower torque curve, and fuel injection. Mated against a manual H42/H55f this combination would be fantastic; as you might know there are a few that run this combination.

Is this vehicle for long distance travel/expedition or rockcrawling/domestic use? If the former I would personally de-modernize and put in a non-US carb and manual adjust dizzy with a `professional' desmogging. That 2F with that combination would probably be able to burn any gasoline found.

People often disagree with my vehicles of choice, but if you really want a manual tranny as you stated in your linked posts, a 1991|1992 FJ80 is your best option, it'll be very $$ to get a manual in an FZJ80, whilst an H41/H42/H55f will bolt directly in (use a 2F flywheel and bellhousing) into an FJ80; there's some other complications, but minor ones like driveline adjustment. You could probably use a 60 series clutch pedal assembly and make it work quite easily in an 80.



60seriesguy made a decision to go Cummins which I respect immensely, but a 2H into an 80 would be a very SWEET stock swap. 2H lacks some power yes, but so does the 2F/3F-E in an 80 anyway.

[60seriesguy]

I am indeed a big fan of the 3F motor, but I don't have much experience with the 3FE. I owned six Land Cruisers powered by the 3F and H55F and I was always happy with the power. In stockish form (no SOA, no big tires, no loaded for bear), the 3F is a great engine.

What pskhaat described is known in Venezuela as a 2F "Plus" (2F block, 3F head, 1FZ carb) and it's a pretty sweet setup for it's simplicity and lack of electronics.

But if you're in the US, and plan to do most of your traveling/expeditions in the US, then it's probably not a problem to stay with the fuel injection.

I like the thought of a 3FE + H55F in an 80 series, but that's a big project for the results, unless you come across a super clean 80 series with a dead engine. Even then, depending on your budget, you might want to just throw in a fresh 1FZ or 3FE and call it a day. I don't know if parts for a 60 series can be retrofitted into an 80 series to do a clutch setup, but I suspect that having the 80 series microfiche and either a Aussie friend or a good Aussie dismantler would be enough to source those parts, can't imagine they would be very expensive.

I chose a Cummins 4BT because my 3F was dead, and because my morbidly obese FJ62 was yielding horrible mileage. I just got 890 miles since my last fillup (March 2nd) and still had about 6 gallons of diesel left in the tank. That's about 26 MPG, give or take. As the price of all fuel continues to rise, the decision seems to get better and better rationalization!

[60seriesguy]

I would look at your ability to (one time, i believe) import a vehicle as military personel. Its been close to 20 years since I bought a car in Europe and went throught ALL the gray market riggamarole...BUT...If my memory serves me...
Military personel can bring a car into the country EXEMPT from DOT and EPA.

That door was closed in November of 1996, when the new DOT Importation laws went into effect. With it went my dream of a 70 series "companion" sitting next to the old girl...

[ChuckB]

The word "de-smog" is taboo here in Kalifornia. So that option is basically out. I think that the only legal way to get around that is to have a Cruiser that is '75 or older as that is cut-off for being smog exempt. I would seriously consider a 2FE if someone can convince me that it will pass smog in CA.

I have no issues on buying a rig and having the motor totally rebuilt. I am planning a rebuild into my budget just in case. My current 60 will most likely(99.9%) not be around for parts when I start this project. The plan is to start from scratch.

I plan on this vehicle being an expedition/long distance traveler both stateside and eventually going to Baja for starters. Tires would be no bigger than 33" and would eventually be loaded down pretty good with gear I imagine.

The only 2 diesel options that I think I could legally drive in California are the MB om617 and the Iveco (International Power Stroke??) that TLC 4x4 is offering. Of course this is short of going through the pain of importing. The MB diesel has a solid reputation but is slightly underpowered (can be increased with a few screw turns). The Iveco motor I have no clue about reliability or durability. Does anyone have any insight on this? Jonathan Ward at TLC says he can put the Iveco in any Cruiser '85 or older for CA. But I imagine that will be big $$$ for motor and labor and would deplete the funds for the project rapidly.

Joaquin Suave - I am interested in your MB TD. There is currently a kit being developed to put a OM617 into a 40/55/60 series cruiser. Could you provide some more details?

Proposed choices:

1) FJ80 - 3FE + H55F (I think this is my first choice right now until I can find out more info on the diesel option)

2) FJ60 - 3FE + H55F

3) FJ60 - 2FE + H55F

4) FJ60 - MB Diesel or Iveco + 5sp

[Joaquin Suave]

Chuck B wrote:

Joaquin Suave - I am interested in your MB TD. There is currently a kit being developed to put a OM617 into a 40/55/60 series cruiser. Could you provide some more details?

Regarding Toyota's no. I purchased my motor ( OM602 DE2.9LA) on e-bay and put it my Jeep Scrambler myself. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it.

Would I do it again?...Probably not.

BTW: Diesel motors (that came from vehicles, not tractors or boats) are smog excempt in California.

[pskhaat]

The 2F-E will pass just as well as the 3F-E, I am seriously doubting that anyone's checking even in Kali the stroke on the block.

The 2F-E is much more a simpler swap into a 60 than a 3F-E, if you want to know details let me know.

As per the diesel, why NOT consider that 2H?

[ChuckB]

Chuck B wrote:

BTW: Diesel motors (that came from vehicles, not tractors or boats) are smog excempt in California.

That is true. But I did some research to the point of actually calling CARB and the short version is yes, diesels are smog exempt. But if you do an engine swap the engine has to be from the same vehicle weight class or less and the same year or newer. That is why in CA a 4BT/GM6.2/6.5 will not be legally registered even though diesels are smog exempt.

Pskhaat, I think that if I was going to go the Toyota diesel route I would go with a turbo 3B or 13B-T, I believe from what I have read that those are the "choice" engines, but I could be wrong. I'm not really up to speed on all the TOY diesels...

I am interested in the 2FE though. I think that would be a sweet combo in with an H55F. I know at home I saved the Toyota Trails where they did a write up on the conversion. When I get home (in about 3 months) I'll have to dive back through it. My mechincal skills leave a little to be desired right now, how would all the smog equipment work on that setup? I could not do that conversion my self and would have to have a shop do it...

[pskhaat]

Pskhaat, I think that if I was going to go the Toyota diesel route I would go with a turbo 3B or 13B-T, I believe from what I have read that those are the "choice" engines

Yes, there are some that would say that, however my brother (fj803fe on this board) has a BJ60 and though the 3B's are amazingly strong albeit slow engines, for a conversion I would still do a 2H as to not have to fab engine mounts, and the fact that a 3B requires a different H55f (spline/shaft length?) than what is commonly available.

As for that matter, I do know that he (my brother with the BJ60) is looking to sell his, so PM me if that's a route you'd like to go; US clean titled & registered.

how would all the smog equipment work on that setup? I could not do that conversion my self and would have to have a shop do it...

Basically (and being very general here), almost everything stays as-is, you just put a different head & intake manifold & thottle body & air cleaner & ECU in. The `smog' equipment can stay as is. EGR can be plumbed into the air intake (as before), the air injection system remains essentially the exact same, just driven off a different set of ports. The nice thing about this is ALL equipment is bolt-in even air cleaners as there were many FJ62's. You wouldn't I wouldn't think have to even claim it as an engine `swap', it's just adding FI to it, the block is the same. It's cleaner too because the accessory mounting on the 3F-E and even the cooling fan are different and that causes a lot of headaches.

Now the BIG question is, does this make the most $ sense? You could very easily have the current engine rebuilt, put a non-US carb and dizzy on it, it'll perform great, throw your H55f in there and have an expedition-ready vehicle that's dead-reliable and no computer to give you issue, and it'll drink most fuel you give it.

Looking back at my 3F-E conversion, for the same amount of $ I could have done the 2H conversion and I'd then have the benefit of not only the diesel but the cool factor. Don't get me wrong I'm happy but from a purely economic standpoint, it was more $/effort than I was expecting.