Li-Ion battery jump starters - any experience out there?

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
So here's my situation: Twice in the last 3 months I've had my battery run down low enough that my 4runner wouldn't start in the morning after running a refrigerator all night. The first one happened at DE-IV on Mojave Road and the second one happened just this past weekend camping in the Rockies.

Of course, the first thing I did was check the battery, and given that the battery was covered with stickers that said "Toyota USA" I think I can safely assume it was probably the original battery from 2007. That being the case, I figured it was probably time to replace the battery, which was done, and I got the biggest and most powerful battery the store had that would fit.

That solved the problem for the moment, but I still have concerns, especially since I am now using a much bigger refrigerator (I went from a Dometic CF-18, 19 qt fridge to an Indel-B TB-41 41 qt model.) So I've figured it would be smart to carry some kind of portable "jump starter" when I go on long trips.

Now, most of us are familiar with the "jump starter packs" that they sell at most automotive or discount stores. These are rather large and heavy, and typically use a sealed lead/acid battery (automotive battery.) They often include things like an air compressor or light as well. Cost ranges from $40 - $200 for most of them depending on size and features.

I almost bought one of those on Saturday when I went to get the new battery, but there was one thing that stopped me: Every one of these lead/acid chargers I saw could only be recharged by plugging it into a 120v AC current (that is, a house current.) None of them, as near as I could tell, could be recharged "on the fly" in my vehicle.

So I passed on those and when I got home I started an internet search. I came up with several of this type of charger:

http://www.amazon.com/Foxnovo®-1500...im_auto_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SJ6EG1N3PE2WJB3DMPM

As you can see, these are small (they would fit in a glove box.) Instead of a bigger lead/acid battery, they use a Li-Ion battery (like the one in a phone or other small electronic device.) They usually come with multiple adapters for charging computers, phones, etc. But the best feature, IMO, is that these can be recharged via a 12v DC connection, which means that if I carry this in my vehicle I can "bootstrap" the battery, that is, I can use this charger to start a dead battery, and then once the vehicle is running, I can use the 12v power system in the truck to re-charge the charger. In theory, at least, this would mean I would never have to worry about running my battery down too low (though I understand that after a certain number of times being discharged a lead/acid battery is very hard to recharge.)

There are a few brands out there, and most cost around the same (~$100.)

My question is whether anyone here has had any actual experience with these devices, good or bad?

Thanks in advance.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
Take a look at the review I posted here.

While we were setting up the Expo, Graham Jackson, Tim Scully, and I decided to see if we could weld with a trio of Micro-Starts connected in series. It worked. They're tough little units. However, this is obviously not something the maker would endorse, and your warranty would be quite understandably invalidated if you tried it.

14391567925_aa1d16c1ff_z.jpg
 
Last edited:

sabconsulting

New member
Whatever you do make sure you aren't letting a fridge or other devices run your starting battery down very far. That will kill your starting battery in no time. They are really only designed to be discharged slightly while quickly starting your truck, not to run appliances all night until they are below 50% charge. This is why many of us run a 2nd deep cycle or leisure battery that is designed for this application and is isolated from the truck starting battery so that isn't drained, but it then charges from the alternator when the engine is running. You can do this with a simple split charge relay, or I use a more advanced DC to DC charger that also takes input from my solar panels. Soon the cost of replacing expensive starting batteries for your truck will pay for the 2nd battery and at least a split charger.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Steve.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Whatever you do make sure you aren't letting a fridge or other devices run your starting battery down very far. That will kill your starting battery in no time. They are really only designed to be discharged slightly while quickly starting your truck, not to run appliances all night until they are below 50% charge. This is why many of us run a 2nd deep cycle or leisure battery that is designed for this application and is isolated from the truck starting battery so that isn't drained, but it then charges from the alternator when the engine is running. You can do this with a simple split charge relay, or I use a more advanced DC to DC charger that also takes input from my solar panels. Soon the cost of replacing expensive starting batteries for your truck will pay for the 2nd battery and at least a split charger.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Steve.

Thanks. Understand, I would not try to run a fridge all night off of a jumper battery. If anything, I'd run the fridge off of the truck's regular battery and then if it happened to be so discharged it needed a jump, I would jump it and once the engine was running I would immediatly try to recharge the jumpstarter (if it needed it - I know overcharging is bad for any battery.)
 

FJR Colorado

Explorer
Thanks. Understand, I would not try to run a fridge all night off of a jumper battery. If anything, I'd run the fridge off of the truck's regular battery and then if it happened to be so discharged it needed a jump, I would jump it and once the engine was running I would immediatly try to recharge the jumpstarter (if it needed it - I know overcharging is bad for any battery.)

I think sabconsulting was referring to don't run the fridge off the main car battery as it does not like being discharged.

BTW, I am a big fan of jumper packs. Especially ones with a worklight, compressor, meter, USB port, ac inverter, etc. I have often re-charged them in the truck via a simple cord with cig adapters on both ends. Some packs even furnish this cable.

I have had a jumper pack go bad and leak acid. That sucked.

I'd love to see somebody come out with a very robust Li-Ion jumper pack that includes the criteria I stated above.
 

robert

Expedition Leader
I think sabconsulting was referring to don't run the fridge off the main car battery as it does not like being discharged.

BTW, I am a big fan of jumper packs. Especially ones with a worklight, compressor, meter, USB port, ac inverter, etc. I have often re-charged them in the truck via a simple cord with cig adapters on both ends. Some packs even furnish this cable.

I have had a jumper pack go bad and leak acid. That sucked.

I'd love to see somebody come out with a very robust Li-Ion jumper pack that includes the criteria I stated above.

Like this? http://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-Batteries-Micro-Start-Multi-Function-Personal/dp/B00FDYYK4A/ref=pd_sim_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BKB9RKHHACFZKRGA2XX
 

scanny

Observer
Long time ago, maybe 5 years ago or so,I picked up one of Motomaster eliminator power packs on sale. I don't think it's a Li-Ion., but it not too big - probably size of standard car battery but not as heavy and has a handle, 110V and 12V output, flashlight and compressor. I used it for camping as a power source for recharging phones, running air pump for air mattresses and stuff like that. What was a pleasant surprise is that after few years of occasional use battery was still strong. In a camping trip after 2 days of light use the battery pack was still able to jump start my friends truck 2 times in a day. : ) And after that it has more than half of charge as per the indicator. The battery pack can be charged from 110V at home or from 12V in a car. Manual recommend to keep it connected to wall outlet all the time when not in use, which gives me some emergency power during power outage. Never used built-in flashlight. Built-in compressor is a very weak it takes forever to air up a tire and I don't think it can air up anything over 32 psi, but probably it's better than nothing.
So I'm pretty happy with mine, I guess that modern power pack should be even better since battery technology keeps improving.
 

BigSwede

The Credible Hulk
Technically those are Lithium Ion, but it is a different kind of Lithium Ion than we are used to in cordless drills and such. They are LiFePO4:

Wiki sez "The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery, also called LFP battery (with "LFP" standing for "lithium ferrophosphate"), is a type of rechargeable battery, specifically a lithium-ion battery, which uses LiFePO4 as a cathode material. LiFePO4 batteries have somewhat lower energy density than the more common LiCoO2 design found in consumer electronics, but offers longer lifetimes, better power density (the rate that energy can be drawn from them) and are inherently safer. LiFePO4 is finding a number of roles in vehicle use and backup power.
 

troyboy162

Adventurer
couple of questions maybe you guys will know....

Alternator dead- could this be left in place to supplement the battery as you drive out?

Battery 100% broken- How long do you think you could drive with this in place of the battery? Also wondering if the alternator will damage it by trying to charge. How far could you drive?

I'm pretty interested in this since its got obvious advantages over jumper cables. I'm just wondering about some non published uses like the above questions. The review that stick welded with three was pretty cool.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
Alternator dead- could this be left in place to supplement the battery as you drive out?

Battery 100% broken- How long do you think you could drive with this in place of the battery? Also wondering if the alternator will damage it by trying to charge. How far could you drive?

The answers are no, and not long. The Micro-Start and similar devices are designed for short-term starting use only.
 

troyboy162

Adventurer
BTW this thread http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/119464-Lithium-Jump-Packs has quite a bit of discussion on this topic.
Lots of good first hand use in there. Looks like these are here to stay and I think one of these may replace my jumper cables soon.

The answers are no, and not long. The Micro-Start and similar devices are designed for short-term starting use only.
Has this already been tried somewhere? while I value all opinions, in this case anyone could assume the same. I know they are not designed for it, but lets be honest my regular battery wasn't actually designed to run a winch and my truck was designed to run 31" tires...the list goes one. Its a emergency scenario question since neither a dead battery or dead alternator are not every day events.

Id think a dead alternator would be ok since the XP will just supply voltage to the system for awhile. A good or intermittent alternator supplying current to the xp charge may be a big issue. Charging lipos incorrectly is fire and smoke territory. Although they had to have designed something into it to protect it after the vehicle starts so that its not a race to disconnect the unit before damage. I suspect they will not take current back from the vehicle and in that case they should be ok to use in the above senarios although not designed for it

Edit: I'm reading some units tell you in the instructions to remove the jump battery within 10 seconds so apparently at least some of them are not protected from the alternator. In that case leaving them in would be bad news if the alternator was even semi working. The smoke would surly escape lol.

You're for sure right about not long though. These look to be about a eighth to a tenth of the AH a normal car battery has. Great little sprinters but not enough energy for a long haul.
 
Last edited:

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
I think sabconsulting was referring to don't run the fridge off the main car battery as it does not like being discharged.

OK, so let me as THIS, then: What if I did it the other way around? Has anyone done that?

What I mean is this: My biggest worry is being out somewhere solo and having a dead battery that won't start my vehicle. So, if I get one of these LiFEPO4 jump packs, keep it fully charged while I'm driving. When I get to my campsite, I disconnect the fridge from the vehicle's 12v outlet and plug it into the LIFEPO4 charger. Assuming I get to camp around 4pm, would one of these little chargers be able to run a 41qt fridge until morning? Because if so, I could just connect the fridge to the charger when I'm stopped and then I would be pretty certain my truck would start (since there wouldn't be anything to drain the battery at night) and when I took off the next morning, I could recharge the jump pack via the 12v outlet.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,539
Messages
2,875,661
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top