Well, I broke it.

[yabanja]

As far as Robinson Fuso's frame cracking.
I'm sure you are talking to guys much smarter then me, but with all the cracking (before and now) and how much you have invested in the truck (both time & money) I'd do what Doug looked into and replace the rear frame (aft of the step) with custom frame rails. The cost seemed reasonable and it will only take another failure in a bad location (geographically) it make the swap worth while.
Welding patches on the frame is not the way to fix a frame. That 'fixes' the problem in the short term, but creates a stress point for problems down the road.
I'd say your 'wreaker guy' is in a different boat then you. Every day that wreaker returns home to the shop and if there is a problem a reasonable fix in the shop.
Robinson Fuso might be on the dark side of the moon when the failure happens, so not so easy of a fix.
Either that or replace the 3 point system with a full length supported subframe for the camper and/or lose a ton or more of weight.

I agree. Changing to a heavier gauge rear frame section would be the way to go IMHO.

The factory service manual says welding on these frames is a big no-no due to the high tensile steel.

I am not sure I would condemn the three point mounting system for every application based upon the failures experienced here. This vehicle seems to be exceeding the weight limits that the Mitsubishi engineers intended by a significant margin. (I have yet to hear any answers to the question-how much) The vehicle has also traveled extensively in extreme conditions. It is likely just plain tired!

 

[kerry]

Colorado didn't use salt on its roads in that time frame. It only started using mag chloride recently. This is unlike NE states which routinely have used salt on their roads for many years. But that video says it was Maryland so I doubt it got a lot of exposure to road salt there. My truck is a 99 and came from the SE. Virtually no rust on the truck at all. The FH in the video with the worst frame damage wouldn't have been a 4x4 so I doubt it was a plow truck. But even if it was a plow truck why did the frame rust so badly and the other components have virtually no rust at all or perhaps just a little surface rust. It doesn't make sense unless there was a big difference in the kinds of steel used.

 

[Rbertalotto]

If you do a search or look at the comments below the two videos you will see this is not an unusual issue with Fuso trucks. When Toyota ran into this a few years ago they replaced whole frames on their pickup trucks. Mitsubishi needs to step up and replace these frames.

 

[pugslyyy]

As far as Robinson Fuso's frame cracking.
I'm sure you are talking to guys much smarter then me, but with all the cracking (before and now) and how much you have invested in the truck (both time & money) I'd do what Doug looked into and replace the rear frame (aft of the step) with custom frame rails. The cost seemed reasonable and it will only take another failure in a bad location (geographically) it make the swap worth while.
Welding patches on the frame is not the way to fix a frame. That 'fixes' the problem in the short term, but creates a stress point for problems down the road.
I'd say your 'wreaker guy' is in a different boat then you. Every day that wreaker returns home to the shop and if there is a problem a reasonable fix in the shop.
Robinson Fuso might be on the dark side of the moon when the failure happens, so not so easy of a fix.
Either that or replace the 3 point system with a full length supported subframe for the camper and/or lose a ton or more of weight.

I'm having the frame re-quoted as part of evaluating the options. The original quote for the frame was $10,854 not including the local labor to remove the frame and install the new one. It's possible that your opinion on what a reasonable cost would be is different from mine.

 

[pugslyyy]

No $10,854 IS NOT a reasonable cost in my opinion (I am the cheapest... well thriftiest operator you will find)
I was under the impression from Doug's thread HERE
that it would be $2,600 total to include shipping both ways, but not 'local labor'. From my experience of stripping my Iveco down to bare bones, it is not too bad a job. Of course it did not have a Robinson Fuso Camper on the back like yours does. But that has to come off for repairs anyway.
Quote from that thread (truncated) "
Quoted cost for two 80k PSI rails for our length (longer than stock) is ~$1,600.
The process is to ship them the stock frame section so they can match the holes. They ship the new frame back. Total turnaround is a few weeks including ~two weeks of shipping time. Freight both ways from TX to VT to TX is ~$1,000.

What Doug says is accurate, $2600 would get you 2 frame rails, without holes. Drilling holes to match + the three crossmembers brings the price to $10,854.

These are 2011 prices so I'm getting it re-quoted.

I'm not entirely against replacing the frame - it may be the best option. However, given the cost I am obviously evaluating all available options.

 

[SkiFreak]

Who knew there was so much money to be made by drilling holes?

 

[pugslyyy]

Who knew there was so much money to be made by drilling holes?

Drilling holes is the toughest part, by far - the tolerancing on them is what makes it challenging. Blank frame rails themselves are stupid simple.

 

[SkiFreak]

In days past I might have agreed with you, but with today's technology it really isn't as hard as you make out.
While the center hole positioning would be more challenging if done manually, with CNC technology it's just a case of entering the correct positional data and letting the machine do its thing. Quite a few companies now have digital scanning capabilities too, so if they have access the original frame rail, the hole positions can be located very easily.
We're not talking about precision holes here either; they are all clearance holes (even the rivet holes).
Also, instead of drilling the holes, they could be cut with a laser cutter, or better yet, a water jet. Quite few of those machines around, and they are very accurate.

The other thing that should not be forgotten is that we are talking about a truck chassis, not a F1 subframe. A case in point would be my own truck's chassis rails. I can tell you that there is at least 5mm difference in length between the left and right rails, measured from the front of the step to the back. I know this for a fact, as it caught me out initially when I built my subframe.

So, I still reccon that it's a lot of money for holes.

 

[SkiFreak]

I should probably also add that Alan custom made his entire chassis. Pretty sure that did not cost him anywhere near $10K.

 

[pugslyyy]

In days past I might have agreed with you, but with today's technology it really isn't as hard as you make out.
While the center hole positioning would be more challenging if done manually, with CNC technology it's just a case of entering the correct positional data and letting the machine do its thing. Quite a few companies now have digital scanning capabilities too, so if they have access the original frame rail, the hole positions can be located very easily.
We're not talking about precision holes here either; they are all clearance holes (even the rivet holes).
Also, instead of drilling the holes, they could be cut with a laser cutter, or better yet, a water jet. Quite few of those machines around, and they are very accurate.

The other thing that should not be forgotten is that we are talking about a truck chassis, not a F1 subframe. A case in point would be my own truck's chassis rails. I can tell you that there is at least 5mm difference in length between the left and right rails, measured from the front of the step to the back. I know this for a fact, as it caught me out initially when I built my subframe.

So, I still reccon that it's a lot of money for holes.

I used to run a heavy fabrication business, and one of our products was frame rails for military vehicles. I can tell you, from direct experience, that those were the absolute worst product to produce in our entire inventory. The tolerance stackup issues are huge. Yes, you can cut it on a waterjet or laser - but only before you bend it.

Everything seems easy until you learn about it.

 

[SkiFreak]

You obviously have more industrial experience than me, but as an ex Fitter I still find it hard to believe that holes should be so expensive.
Mog has a very valid point, being that many of the holes in the OEM frame rails are not used at all.
As I said previously... it is a truck and therefore has "truck tolerances". I also agree with Mog in that the only holes that would really be considered as important (positional wise) would be the suspension related ones, and there are not that many of those.
I am sure that with your background experience you could utilize the bare chassis rails and drill your own holes more accurately than most. If I were in your position, that is something I would definitely consider. But hey... it's your truck.

 

[Jfet]

If you use calipers and a center drill I think you could get within 0.01" vertically and 0.05" horizontally without a lot of trouble. Would that be close enough?

 

[pugslyyy]

If you use calipers and a center drill I think you could get within 0.01" vertically and 0.05" horizontally without a lot of trouble. Would that be close enough?

So where do you measure from? You can't just move from hole to hole, that multiplies error. So you have to come back to a common reference point for every single hole/cut/bend.

The big issue for reproducoing a frame is the datum that you use. Also, it's a really long frame, with flex and rotation - and finally if you decide to dip it (galvanize it) everything is going to move slightly wrt that reference point.

Doing a custom build is easier - you build the frame and then bolt everything to it, making adjustments as you go. A replacement frame has to slide right in, in place of the original.

I'm not saying that it can't be done with a good process... just that they earn their money making them.

 

[SkiFreak]

I'm sure you will anyway, but let us know what you decide to do.
I still think that you are more than capable (technically) to do this drilling yourself, but as I've said before... it's your truck and it's your decision to make.

 

[dlh62c]

There's Pros out there that can do the job. Email them some pictures and ask for their advice.
http://www.majestictruck.com/services-offered-by-majestic-truck/truck-frame-repair-shop.html