Ford F550 vs. Ram 5500

153624

Observer
Sorry that's GM and Dodge use AAM. The Ford 250/350 use a standard Dana60 front and Sterling in the rear I think still.
 

flylow4500

Observer
I hope so. Bolting accessories like an air compressor, water tank, or utility body works a whole lot better to a chassis that's pretty much a plate of steel, instead of a thin box. You'll find that almost all heavier trucks are C channels. I would avoid boxed frames in 3500's and up.

The boxed frames are marketing. Hydroforming is cheap to do. GM and Dodge didn't switch to boxed frames for any kind of performance advantage. It was cost and ease of production. Everything else is just hype.

We had a bent GMC frame from delivery. Was strapped down on a trailer too tight. Early hydroformed models were actually quite weak.

Interesting opinions here. Especially coming from a flexy frame Ford owner.

Hydroforming is cheap compared to what? Have you ever seen this process or know what it takes? Cheap never crossed my mind. I'd call it current technology.


Yes it is easier (cheaper) to drill and bolt something to a c-channel. I don't think easier is always better.

It is possible to bend any frame with enough ignorance and stupidity.
 

153624

Observer
Keeping in mind, all auto manufacturers that mass produce vehicles. If they can save one single penny per unit on a process that is exactly what they will do.
 

RoyJ

Adventurer
Interesting opinions here. Especially coming from a flexy frame Ford owner.

Hydroforming is cheap compared to what? Have you ever seen this process or know what it takes? Cheap never crossed my mind. I'd call it current technology.


Yes it is easier (cheaper) to drill and bolt something to a c-channel. I don't think easier is always better.

It is possible to bend any frame with enough ignorance and stupidity.

Exactly. Simple engineering concepts tell us a boxed frame is always stronger than C-channel for a given weight (cross sectional material area).

If cost of both production and upfitting is no subject, I'm sure Class 8 trucks would use boxed frame as well - but bolting on a 5th wheel or box van would be nearly impossible, not to mention tooling to hydroform such a large frame.

It's funny, when Ford first introduced a fully boxed, hydroformed frame to the light duty market (2004), guess who was showing videos of trucks going over alternating speed bumps and bragging about chassis rigidity!?

Yet now that the competition has caught up, and surpassed them in the HD segment, they keep quiet...
 

RoyJ

Adventurer
I won't argue that the cummins may be a medium duty engine. In fact I think the make some very stellar engines and I would love one some day. Yes everything you touched on might be true, the rings, wrist pins and connecting rods. As a whole maybe the engine is stronger then it's rivals but my qualm is that of course on an individual piston and rod make up they will be stronger! Less cylinders to distribute the force!

It's not just the size of each piston/rod, but also the I6 configuration, which is generally regarded as superior to a V-block for heavy duty work and longevity.

I have a Detroit 6V71, which is considered a 500K engine. The inline version, 6-71, is a million mile engine. Everything is nearly identical (pistons, rods, blowers, injectors, valve-train, etc), except the inline engine has a lot more main bearings. Thermal and mechanical stresses are easier distributed in an inline configuration. It's not by chance nearly all commercial diesels are in-line!

We can debate all day based on opinions, but the simple fact is this: ISBs are used in hundreds of thousands of school buses (grossing 36k lbs), mini buses, small transits, class A motorhomes, and Class 6/7 trucks, day in day out. The number for Powerstroke / Duramax is nearly zero.

Not saying PSD/DM are bad engines - I'd take them in a heartbeat (except 6.0PSD...) in a pickup truck. But if I'm hauling commercially, I'd pick a Cummins (or Cat, or Detroit, or Mack, or International...)
 

gtbensley

Explorer
I won't argue that.......if I remember correctly the previous argument was simply based of a visual size comparison of connecting rods. Which was incorrect.
 

153624

Observer
Agreed. V8 - 8 pistons 5 main bearings. I6 - 6 pistons 7 main bearings. The architecture speaks for itself.
 

Naffenea

New member
Just curious why the US military suppliers and tactical builders like Oshkosh and Lenco and most others seem to build on the F550 platform not the Dodge 5500 platform?
Ward

I wouldn't use that as a basis for reliability. PMCS'ing these vehicles is a major pain in the posterior and parts are always breaking. For short trips, it's not so bad. For anything over 100 miles, please put us on a bus and the trucks on a flat bed.
 

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