comptiger5000
Adventurer
An espresso machine boiler is a resistive heating element. Unless it's got super-sensitive control circutry, it should work just fine on an MSW inverter.
Trying to set up my Cherokee to run a fridge off solar.
- Thread starter 65BAJA
- Start date
I've never checked to see what the voltage drop is at the batteries while the fridge is running. I know it draws a hair over 4A on start up and drops to 3A while running.
I currently have the controller set to 14.6V but I haven't hooked anything up yet. It's easy enough to set it to 14.4V if I need to.
I charged the batteries last night with my regular charger and after resting they are at 13.0V.
I currently have the controller set to 14.6V but I haven't hooked anything up yet. It's easy enough to set it to 14.4V if I need to.
I charged the batteries last night with my regular charger and after resting they are at 13.0V.
I didn't think there were any circuit boards in this thing but maybe there is. I was just going by the rather detailed reply by the manufacturer. His reply sounded like he had been asked the question before.
Bill, thanks for the heads-up & 65BAJA, I'm sorry to hear about the negative experience you had with our customer service folks in getting the information you needed. In the majority of instances, our FAQs do answer most consumer questions and a lot of the people who contact our customer service department never both to check them, so sometimes the responses may seem generic or repetitive, due to the volume of inquiries they process.
Generally speaking, battery chargers that run between 13.8-15.0 volts will work fine on our batteries and we don't recommend amperage rates that exceed 10 amps. Our batteries tend to be very forgiving with most chargers, as long as they are not charged on a "gel" or "gel/AGM" setting, which may not fully-charge non-gel batteries and could damage them over time. That information typically satisfies the vast majority of consumers who use our products, most of whom may never even bother to check the output of their chargers (almost all of which will work just fine with our products anyway). I would say many of the exceptions are active members of this forum, who tend to take a far more detailed interest in their electrical systems and acknowledge the shortcomings in their own systems that could arise relating to wiring issues, using dissimilar batteries or other such issues.
Fortunately, battery technology is not rocket science and many of the principles that apply to one AGM brand will apply to others- the shallower the depth of discharge, the more cycles will be available, batteries maintained near a full state of charge will last longer than those that are left in various states of discharge, etc... Ever since we released our own chargers, we've been flooded with requests for the the specific charge rates in the various charge modes of our charger. When I first went to the engineering team with those requests, they indicated that information was proprietary and not something shared with the public for competitive reasons. The chargers do show both amperage and voltage rates while charging, so if someone wanted to buy one and monitor it during a charge cycle, they could probably gather all the data they needed.
For most other folks, just using a modern charger with microprocessor technology, temperature compensation and proper regulation for amperage and voltage output is more than they'll ever need to keep their batteries properly-maintained.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
Generally speaking, battery chargers that run between 13.8-15.0 volts will work fine on our batteries and we don't recommend amperage rates that exceed 10 amps. Our batteries tend to be very forgiving with most chargers, as long as they are not charged on a "gel" or "gel/AGM" setting, which may not fully-charge non-gel batteries and could damage them over time. That information typically satisfies the vast majority of consumers who use our products, most of whom may never even bother to check the output of their chargers (almost all of which will work just fine with our products anyway). I would say many of the exceptions are active members of this forum, who tend to take a far more detailed interest in their electrical systems and acknowledge the shortcomings in their own systems that could arise relating to wiring issues, using dissimilar batteries or other such issues.
Fortunately, battery technology is not rocket science and many of the principles that apply to one AGM brand will apply to others- the shallower the depth of discharge, the more cycles will be available, batteries maintained near a full state of charge will last longer than those that are left in various states of discharge, etc... Ever since we released our own chargers, we've been flooded with requests for the the specific charge rates in the various charge modes of our charger. When I first went to the engineering team with those requests, they indicated that information was proprietary and not something shared with the public for competitive reasons. The chargers do show both amperage and voltage rates while charging, so if someone wanted to buy one and monitor it during a charge cycle, they could probably gather all the data they needed.
For most other folks, just using a modern charger with microprocessor technology, temperature compensation and proper regulation for amperage and voltage output is more than they'll ever need to keep their batteries properly-maintained.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
Jim, I appreciate your response. I just wanted to get clarification on the voltages so I don't cook almost $600 in batteries. My charge controller is a TriStar PWM TS-45. It does not have an AGM setting but I can adjust the charge voltage. From what your saying if I set it to 14.4V I'll be fine. My solar panels put out 17ish amps max. Since this will be across two batteries (~8A each) I'm guessing that is ok?
I will have a pretty good intermittent load that will be drawing on the system but only for short periods. The Coffee machine could draw as much as 95A @12v when it's on. This would only be for 2-3 minute bursts for a total of maybe 10-15 minutes in the morning. So maybe ~12AH total if my math is right (50% duty cycle and 1/4 of an hour run time). I think I'm probably a little light on AH capacity to be doing much of that but I won't be doing it very often. The draw the rest of the day will be 3.3A @ maybe 50% duty cycle. So ~40ah there. I figure my solar should be able to generate somewhere between 100 and 120 AH a day on a decent day, more on a good day.
I will have a pretty good intermittent load that will be drawing on the system but only for short periods. The Coffee machine could draw as much as 95A @12v when it's on. This would only be for 2-3 minute bursts for a total of maybe 10-15 minutes in the morning. So maybe ~12AH total if my math is right (50% duty cycle and 1/4 of an hour run time). I think I'm probably a little light on AH capacity to be doing much of that but I won't be doing it very often. The draw the rest of the day will be 3.3A @ maybe 50% duty cycle. So ~40ah there. I figure my solar should be able to generate somewhere between 100 and 120 AH a day on a decent day, more on a good day.
65BAJA, I totally understand your concern, as I wouldn't want to put that much into batteries, only to have them get cooked by a substandard charger. The main concern we typically see with solar units, regardless of amperage output, is that they are properly-regulated, so they won't overcharge batteries after they have reached a full state of charge. This is more of a concern with the less expensive solar units, than those typically used by members of this forum.
When dealing with multi-battery banks, I often cite our tournament anglers as examples, as they will deeply-discharge their batteries several times over the course of typical tournament and charge them at night with units can sometimes deliver 15 amps across four banks. Those anglers don't cut corners (usually) on the types of chargers they use and will even go so far as to bring units along to check the actual output of electrical outlets and different lengths of extension cords, so they can use the shortest cord possible. One of the main reasons we cite 10 amps as a maximum, is because many chargers on the market will go from 10 amps to 50 or 100 amps, with no options in between. Add in the potential for such chargers to not be properly-regulated and someone connecting their 50Ah battery overnight to 50-amp charger can have pretty severe consequences. As long as you are confident that your panels will not overcharge your batteries, you should be fine.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
When dealing with multi-battery banks, I often cite our tournament anglers as examples, as they will deeply-discharge their batteries several times over the course of typical tournament and charge them at night with units can sometimes deliver 15 amps across four banks. Those anglers don't cut corners (usually) on the types of chargers they use and will even go so far as to bring units along to check the actual output of electrical outlets and different lengths of extension cords, so they can use the shortest cord possible. One of the main reasons we cite 10 amps as a maximum, is because many chargers on the market will go from 10 amps to 50 or 100 amps, with no options in between. Add in the potential for such chargers to not be properly-regulated and someone connecting their 50Ah battery overnight to 50-amp charger can have pretty severe consequences. As long as you are confident that your panels will not overcharge your batteries, you should be fine.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
I think I have everything gathered up (except for the inverter controller panel). Time to get busy and get everything wired up.
All the current wiring will be removed and new #2 AWG parallel wires made for these.
Two of these will be carried on the roof of the Jeep to be deployed from the roof of the Jeep.
All the current wiring will be removed and new #2 AWG parallel wires made for these.
Two of these will be carried on the roof of the Jeep to be deployed from the roof of the Jeep.
Progress!
Finished the under hood wiring from the starter battery to where it will connect to the house bank. The run is about 13 feet of 1AWG. Hi temp convoluted tubing over the positive lead. Inline 60Amp ANL fuse. 175Amp Anderson connector to the house bank.
I will eventually rewire the positive terminal of the starter battery with a big mil spec clamp like is already on the negative terminal.
Finished the under hood wiring from the starter battery to where it will connect to the house bank. The run is about 13 feet of 1AWG. Hi temp convoluted tubing over the positive lead. Inline 60Amp ANL fuse. 175Amp Anderson connector to the house bank.
I will eventually rewire the positive terminal of the starter battery with a big mil spec clamp like is already on the negative terminal.
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It's shaping up nicely. You might consider picking up one of these cases if they are still available. I don't think they're making them anymore, but it's a slick solution, and I think your batteries will fit. http://www.1st-wholesale-batteries.com/troll_fury.html
The case is sold separately on the main web site.
I like the copious use of the Anderson connectors.
The case is sold separately on the main web site.
I like the copious use of the Anderson connectors.
Fridge base roughed out.
I completely removed the rear seat and cut out a base for the fridge. I'm trying to figure out how to lay everything out. I was thinking of building a cover for the batteries and mount the inverter to the top of that. Then I could build a small pylon in the center to mount the charge controller and monitors. The shunt and wiring would go on the pylon too. I wanted to keep everything (inverter, monitors, and wiring) all hidden. Haven't figured out how to do that and keep it clean looking. It got dark on me so more tomorrow.
I completely removed the rear seat and cut out a base for the fridge. I'm trying to figure out how to lay everything out. I was thinking of building a cover for the batteries and mount the inverter to the top of that. Then I could build a small pylon in the center to mount the charge controller and monitors. The shunt and wiring would go on the pylon too. I wanted to keep everything (inverter, monitors, and wiring) all hidden. Haven't figured out how to do that and keep it clean looking. It got dark on me so more tomorrow.
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DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
You have a lot of solar for a relatively small battery bank. Based on my experience with my truck, I would recommend that you consider replacing you manual switch, which you will forget to connect or disconnect, with an automatic switch, such as this one. http://www.bluesea.com/products/7620/ML-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12V_DC_500A
This will have the added benefit of allowing your solar kit to charge and maintain your starter batteries. You have so much solar, why waste it?
All the best!