The Woofwagon. Beginning pictures

[Woofwagon]

Ok, I love working craigslist like a rented mule. I scored a pair of unused, brand new NOS Cadillac 500 heads for $350 bucks. These suckers will be painted with VHT paint and dropped right on to the engine block. I may have the valves popped out and a 3 angle valve job done to them. I also score a 7 quart aluminum oil pan with the proper oil pick up tube. It's a rear sump pan so it will clear the front axle with room to spare. Rockauto.com is awesome to say the least. I bought a Cloyes timing set, new push rods and full gasket set for only 150 bucks. By saving money here, I can splurge on a nice valve train system, cam, pistons and a full balancing. It might be after my cylinder bore inspection with a dial bore gauge that no rebore is required. These blocks have a well earned rep for being extremely strong and not needing reboring.

Enjoy the pics.

 

[chilliwak]

Wow thats some cool sheit there Woof!

 

[Woofwagon]

Yeah I work craigslist like a rented mule and look what I find....

 

[justcuz]

Early 454's used an adaptor to install the TBI onto a factory 4 barrel intake. So you can regulate down the fuel pressure and run a carb or get the adaptor and run a big block TBI on your factory Caddy intake.
Because the Caddy intake is a low rise to clear the hood, the big block adaptor would help slightly with low end by lengthening the intake tract.
You could e-mail TBIchips.com and let him know what you are doing and what he recommends for your computer and chip. Also talk to the Caddy guys. There is a guy in Yerington, Nevada who converts regular distributors to be compatible with EFI, I'll see if I can find his info. Found it! Called Daves Small Body HEI. He does electronic ignition conversions on distributors for carbed and fuel injected engines. I'm sure there are others out there too.
I would go with the TBI personally. You only need a few sensors which could probably transfer over from your current engine and a distributor to run the TBI on the Caddy engine. You could have the EGR eliminated from the computer program or just remove the signal wire from the computer output/wiring loom. I would install the O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold, just drill and tap, the rest of the sensors, water temp, map, knock etc should be easy to mount on the Caddy engine.
People think q-jets are gold plated these days, it's ridiculous.
More thoughts, I would paint the engine the Chevy factory color. Blue or were they black in 89. It would be fun to watch folks scratch their heads while looking at the engine!

 

[Woofwagon]

Thanks for the info Justcuz. I'd like to keep the HEI system on the Caddy as it's an awesome ignition system. My plan for the intake is to upgrade to the Edelbrock aluminum unit for better breathing. I have a completely rebuilt Quadrajet already to go onto the engine when it's all together, picked it up at the Monroe swap meet for $180.

I idea of TBI on this Caddy is very tempting. Perhaps after I get the engine in the Suburbillac and running with the carb will I move forward with a TBI conversion. The issue of EGR is moot for a vehicle this age as no emission testing is required. Quadrajets had a good reputation for economic and clean running, it's when the blade shaft bushings got worn out and started leaking air that all sort of tuning problems developed.

On the issue of engine color, I had the thought of painting it Cummins beige or Cat yellow to make oil leaks easy to spot. The VHT paint with ceramic in it is probably what I'm going with for durability. Maybe if I paint it some Pontiac block color will really screw with people's heads. Of course the '56 Cadillac script badge I'm mounting to the snorkel will top you off on what under the hood.

 

[justcuz]

Quadrajets are a good carb, I run several of them. They also have float bowl plug problems and the issues of the floats sinking. I do have a part number for brass floats to fix that and the float plugs can be epoxied. Another issue that is problematic with q-jets is the vacuum choke pull off fails and the car runs rich.

That is why I would use the TBI, as I believe you could use most of your existing electronics and have a trouble free system that is practically stock. The Chevy big block TBI adaptor would bolt right on to the aluminum intake.

If you run the carb with an HEI you might want to think about keeping the TBI wiring loom and just adding an extra 12 volt wire from the ignition switch to the HEI. That way if you decide later to run the TBI, the wiring is intact, (although distributor wiring will have to be lengthened).

The EGR issue is mostly about the engine management computer and the wiring that goes to the EGR solenoid that is currently on the truck. The actual EGR valves are a negative pressure EGR's and parts store replacement valves do not usually work well. Removing the EGR if possible solves a lot of replacement and repair issues down the road. The computer sends voltage and a engagement signal to the EGR solenoid. You want to remove that wiring from the engine loom at the computer plug in point.

Engine color is entirely your choice and your color choices and the reason for them sound great.

 

[Woofwagon]

So would this require a big block TBI to run as it has a small block system in there now?

 

[justcuz]

I would use the big block TBI and adaptor. Tbichips.com says the 350 TBI is good for higher horsepower, but since the Caddy is 500 cubes, I'd do the Big Block TBI.

 

[Woofwagon]

I see in my research that there are cams that have a lobe separation angle meant for TBI. Do I then need to spec a Cadillac cam that will be compatible with TBI to prevent control computer problems with say low or high manifold vacuum? I do want to run as high a manifold vacuum as possible for torque and fuel economy.

 

[superbuickguy]

computer controlled motors have trouble with too much overlap and/or poor vacuum. But that's a huge generalization and not exactly true.
For what you're doing, and as long as you keep the lobe separation to something greater then 113 degrees - you'll be fine. Honestly, old school EFI is pretty good. Find a TBI system from a 502 or 454. They're almost exactly the same and they adapt very easily to the Caddy motor. The only real issue you'll have is if you want the computer to control the spark. You'll have to figure out how to mount a knock sensor and swap the distributor head (seriously, cut the base off) and mount a SBC or BBC later distributor top.

I like the old TBI because they are set and forget. They work, they aren't finicky, every GM dealership on the planet can fix them, and they get the best fuel economy because back then, they worried about fuel economy AND emissions - ask the EPA now, they'll tell you they couldn't care less about fuel economy, only emissions. The down side is, if you need to change settings, it means burning a new chip. With that said - Howell's EFI is someone I've used, I use, and I recommend to anyone.... and you know what it takes for me to say that

there is a CFM difference and injector size difference between the SBC and BBC TBI units. You can use a BBC TBI on a SBC, but never go the other direction.... get the big one.

 

[Woofwagon]

Thanks Buickdude, I was hoping you'd contribute to this. I have a strong desire to use a TBI system on this engine, but I would like to get the engine put together and installed in the truck first, running with the Quadrajet. The one cam I have been looking at getting has a LSA of 112 degrees so that shouldn't mess up a TBI setup too badly.

As for spark control, I'd probably keep it as dumb as possible. I do have a Jacobs OmniPak in the parts bin that could be used with the HEI.

I'd like to see how one mods a Cadillac HEI dizzy to accept the Chevy TBI unit.

I would like to build a parts list needed for such a TBI install on the Cadillac for future purchase and installation. I do like the way the TBI system runs smoothly. The one on the 350 there now has been hard starting lately, not sure why. I guess I've been spoiled by the instantaneous starts of diesel engines for too long.

 

[superbuickguy]

I know you can do this - you simply cut the top off an HEI or points distributor for the cadillac, and use that base to adhere a later base from the TBI system. The amount cut off is determined by the length of the rod that runs between the oil pump gear and the rotor. Knock sensors can go in either of the drain plugs at the oil pan rail after you isolate the drain from the fluid (you need a good base to transmit the acoustics)... the benefit is your mpg and driveability will greatly increase - especially if you travel where gas quality is suspect.

 

[Woofwagon]

Do you know what the dimensions are to cut the Caddy dizzy? Can the TBI be run without a knock sensor, or will the computer have a conniption fit?

 

[superbuickguy]

the knock sensor basically screws into the drain plug.... just have to put something behind it that isn't water... run without? you could, but why?

the distributor, I could show you but then I'd have to kill you.... kidding... I'll see if I can find a picture, it becomes pretty obvious how they cut and go back together, the length is the same length as the SBC/BBC distributor (which may already be the same length as the caddy). Caddy makes it easy with so much of the housing exposed above the block, you can sleeve the parts together without worry about getting the new housing into the front cover.

hmmmm....no pictures to be found... I converted a Buick 215 points-style to a HEI, large cap, using this method. The motor is at my dad's house, if not before, I'll do my best to snap a pic or two in a couple weeks when I go to Portland

 

[Woofwagon]

That would be great! For the installation of the engine, I'm going to stick with the Quadrajet for now with a fuel pressure regulator so that I can use the stock TBI in tank fuel pump and fuel lines. I like to have all the pieces ready to go for installation so that I can do a job in one go rather than piecemeal.

Looking forward to the pics.