House Battery turffle shuffle

Jb1rd

Explorer
The PO moved the house battery to underneath the sofa, I need help putting one back there and adding on to the sofa location for a total of three house batteries, is this overkill? What kind of convertor do I need, it seems the original is not very well designed and over charges???? Ideally I would like to run my Vita Mix without having to plug in or run the gennie, maybe watch a movie on the laptop or eventual flat screen. I am clueless and baffled by this whole 12v thing! Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am willing and eager to learn I just don't know how to start.
 

why3zx

Observer
I am in the process of doing just this. However I am not too informed about the layout on the 4th gen B190s as mine is a 91.

Some basics, in order to power your laptop, flat screen or blender you are going to need to install an inverter. Converter takes 120v AC and makes it into 12V DC. Inverter takes 12VDC and makes it into 120V AC. for newer electronics a pure sine inverter is going to be your best bet, I doubt the blender cares. However from what I know about a Vita Mix blender is correct you are going to need one hell of an inverter to run it. I know guys get away with running smaller coffee pots but a blender of that magnitude seems to be a stretch. A quick look at the website showes a C series drawing 11.5 Amps!!!

Take into mind that you are going to need an inverter that will cover what you are going to be running. they come in all different flavors. however the power is coming from the batteries and there is inverter loss, none are 100% efficiant. so no matter what you are going to need to charge them back up. no matter how many batteries you are going to run.

now as for someone moving to coach battery to under the sofa on your B190, My suspision is that there is some place that it was before that you can mount a batt, I know mine is mounted under the hood. I am adding one additional coach battery and a 100W solar setup to maintain it, not that I expect that to allow me untimate power without having to run the genny, but it will help.

As for three being overkill, no way, more is always better in my opionion. I run a bank of 6 27 series batts on my boat. however room is a killer, not sure how you would re-arrange the under sofa area to keep more than one additional battery. I am putting my bank in the genny compt as my van came without a gen set.

as for the converter, its fine, however it has issues with the newer AGM batteries, I havent read anything saying that it has issues with standard led acid. However mounting lead acid batteries in a living space is always kind of frouned upon due to fire and fume issues.
 

mikracer

Adventurer
If you have a generator already built in, why mess with adding a third battery and needing an expensive inverter? You'll most likely need a 2000w inverter to run a vitamix and those seem to be at least $600. You will also want to run the same type and size battery for your house system, so depending on the condition of your existing batteries, you might potentially need to buy 3 new batteries. I just bought 2 AGM batteries and they were $245 each. I don't have a generator or solar so I wanted to have at least 2 batteries to be able to run the fridge for a couple days. It might be a pain to start up the generator in the morning to run your vitamix, but if I have the convenience of a generator to run a microwave or other high amp drawing appliance, I would be using the generator with a smile.
 

Jb1rd

Explorer
WEEEEEEEEEELLLL, I guess I should have mentioned that the real inspiration for adding the additional batteries is because the 12v system as it sits now is not working properly and I figured if I have to rewire/replace it anyway I might as well add more juice!!! The 12v now will only work with the ignition key turned to the on position, the van does not need to be running just the key turned over a notch, this in turn is a PIA and as an already forgetful Sally I left it on the other night and got myself stranded as I found out it is also tied to my coach battery :mad: come to think of it who knows if the house system has even worked and every time I use the ignition I am just chewing up my coach battery????? Did I happen to mention I am electricallllllly challenged, a functioning idiot really, I do know how to change most light bulbs, most! I have a volt meter that is pristine because I have no idea how to use the damn thing:Wow1:
 

bknudtsen

Expedition Leader
Have you checked to see whether or not the house battery(ies) have a charge? Sounds to me that by turning the key to "on" you are tripping the solenoid and connecting the starting battery, which is now providing power. It will drain much faster if tied to a flat house battery.
 

java

Expedition Leader
Sounds like you need to start over from scratch.

Try to determine your load, this will drive how many and what size batteries are needed. There are better calculators, but thos one came up quick on google http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=10

You should have a starting battery, it needs to be separated from the house battery/batteries when the ignition is off, and connected when the vehicle is running. This is done with a battery combiner, a solenoid that will automatically connect and disconnect the batteries.

Use the biggest gauge wire you can. Find a voltage drop chart, its amazing with a long wire run how much voltage you lose. This make charging the house batteries inefficient.

The house batteries: if your starting over, IMO I would go with 6v golf cart batteries wired in series (positive from one battery to negative on the other making them 12v combined), this will get a better amp hour rating vs using 12v batteries. These should be sized to how many amp hours you think you will use between chargings x2. Ideally you don't want to fully discharge your batteries, going down to no lower than 50% is recommended.

Overcharging: how do you know? Is it temp adjusted? Depends on the type of batteries installed. AGM batteries are pickier on the voltage they get, each mfg will give specs, but most wont like to get much over 16 while charging, but depends on the temp, and the battery. Old school flooded cells don't really care, they regulate themselves by boiling off water (voltages within reason.... my boat will run ~18, just have to keep up with the water, its unregulated)

Hope that helps....
 

Jb1rd

Explorer
As I said all of this is out of my realm of experience or comfort, going to need to find a willing accomplice willing to work for beer (cough cough Cole!) or pay to have it done, first off I need to dismantle my sofa so I can get to the relocated battery and the original charge controller that was installed by Airstream then I can start working backwards I suppose.
 

keystone

New member
My van is a '94, as is yours, right? Here's a thought--the electrical system in my van is working properly: I could take some pics and grab some voltages and get the model of the new converter for you. Would that be a helpful step before you rip everything out?
 

why3zx

Observer
Have you checked to see whether or not the house battery(ies) have a charge? Sounds to me that by turning the key to "on" you are tripping the solenoid and connecting the starting battery, which is now providing power. It will drain much faster if tied to a flat house battery.

This.

Someone has defeted the key off disconnect or your coach battery is toast.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Yea, agree - sounds like with the key on, the solenoid is feeding the house circuits power from the engine battery. Probably the house battery is toast.

As I recall, those B190s have a rather standard RV power center.

Like this:

box9roll41_004.jpg



[Note that in the above photo, the power converter / 12v power supply section has been removed from the bottom of the unit.]


That kind of setup is pretty well known for not doing a great job of battery charging. They usually just have a (rather weak) regulated 12v power supply.

Best converters has kits to upgrade these things with a decent battery charger and a new circuit board:

https://bestconverter.3dcartstores.com/MagnetekParallax-to-Ultra-III_ep_8-1.html


For a good size battery bank, I would go with Iota DLS-55 with IQ/4 brain module. That's a true 3-stage charger, whereas almost all the others they offer are actually 2-stage - they only do bulk and float stages - though some switch around between a couple of different float voltages which the marketing guys try to make out to be "charge stages". They aren't.

The Iota without the IQ/4 is also only a 2-stage charger. I would prefer a larger charger, but the DLS-55 only draws 13a at full load, so it probably won't trip the breaker at some crappy camp site hookups. And they've got it on sale right now:

https://bestconverter.3dcartstores.com/DLS-55-55-Amp-Power-Converter-wIQ4_p_337.html

Now, don't be fooled where it says it does an "equalization stage". Everyone knows EQ is for flooded vented batteries, NOT sealed batteries. Actually the IQ/4 doesn't do a real EQ. From the spec sheet here:

http://www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/iq4spec.pdf

It says:

"The Equalization Stage will cycle the battery through the Bulk and Absorption Stages before returning the battery to the Float Stage."

Basically, what it does is after 7 days at float, it automatically starts a full run-through of bulk/absorb/float. Also, the IQ/4 has an 8 hour timer on the absorb stage, so it'll never get stuck in absorb and overcharge the battery (this can happen with some chargers if you're running loads at the same time you're charging).



If you are going to have a large house battery "bank" make sure you get a charger that is big enough - but not so big you can't run it from the generator or shore power. A typical duplex receptacle in the U.S. is rated 15a. So...

15a x 120v = 1800w
1800w / 12v = 150a

As long as you keep your battery charger to say 100a or less, you *should be* fine from either the gen or shore power. But YMMV and I'd go a bit smaller.


So that fixes the power center and it's easy and you can do it yourself.


Then, you can tap a big inverter off the battery bank and rig up a transfer switch so that the power center AC section is fed by the inverter when there is no shore power or the generator is not running. There is probably (should be) a transfer switch already installed as part of the generator wiring to switch between shore power and generator.

So two transfer switches: The output from the first one feeds either shore or gen to the power center now and will have to be re-routed so it feeds instead into one side of the second transfer switch, which then feeds either shore/gen or inverter to the power center. You'll probably need some help with getting that right, as well as some help getting the extra batteries hooked up properly.


That would be the right way. The simple way would be to fix your power center, then hook a big inverter to your battery bank and just plug stuff into the inverter whenever you need to and not mess around with the generator/shore/power center AC wiring.


You'll probably also need a huge inverter - like 2000w to run the juicer and a few other things at the same time - AND you won't want to run your AC from it (ever) or run the microwave at the same time as the juicer.

Samlex are good and not too expensive:

https://bestconverter.3dcartstores....Sine-Inverter-with-4000-Watt-Surge_p_531.html
 

why3zx

Observer
J, DWH above is correct, I just had the pleasure of going all the way through my 12V system last night installing the solar setup and an additional house battery. One think I will say is that solar is awesome, and the converter that comes with these older RVs is SKETCH to say the best. Next thing that is going to be going into my rig is a new powermax converter (I am way more fond of the powermax vs the IOTA due to use in bowfishing boats, being ran harder than an RV use converter ever will be, the powermax always shine).

The 12V airstream system is fresh in my mind, PM me for a phone number if you would like to chat.
 

Jb1rd

Explorer
This is what I found when tracing my 12v wiring and issues. My house battery was fried and was only 2 years old. The house system is now hooked in with the ignition switch which the PO must have done when they moved the batt. under the couch from the engine bay. I am guessing that block is for the negative terminal, how and what should I replace it with and how do I get the house system completely isolated from the starter? ( I have already drained it once )
fe9195e797e01df165b6f5b63a10b74a.jpg
1b5eaeaaf6e52ab98886114ac47d5668.jpg
c9b85f439b851926c4a859d55c49ba1d.jpg



Sent by magic, I mean come on really, pictures through thin air, MAGIC!!!
 

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