What series what to buy

BajaSportsmobile

Baja Ironman
I email you guys a couple days ago for a Quote I still haven't got any answer :)

If the guys are up to meet that would be great let me know :):):):) my email should be in your inbox by now I just resend it.

I'm sorry, we are so busy that there is not much time for email most days. It will get back to you.
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
Don't worry about our English, it's fine.

Best of luck, and I hope you enjoy your van & build. I'm pleased with my 7.3, it runs like a top after 10 years of Ambulance service, and 15,000 hours.

:cheers:
 

Kenyi

Observer
Thanks Bikersmurf :) English is tricky to type. Thanks for the spell checker otherwise it would be allot of weird sentences.
 

Kenyi

Observer
We have two 7.3L's coming in tomorrow evening from the Bay Area for 4X4 conversions. There is no connection between the two owners but they just happen to be from the same area and have the same vans as you. Maybe we can get you together with them when they get back there. We have a 2001 SMB with 5.4L that we just finished a 4X4 conversion on that is going back to San Francisco on Friday. The Bay area is a hot market. We have done a few other 7.3s in the last few months as well.

This is a 2014 V10 that came to us with only 1,200 miles on it and then went straight to Baja for for a month and 3,000 miles after we finished it and got used hard based on the bent Aluminess Bumper.

How is it going have you finish those conversion :)
 

radorsch

Adventurer
V8 vs V10 or diesel in an E350 4x4

Not sure if this is the right place, but it is the What Series, What to Buy thread. Didn't find another thread, but please lmk if I missed a discussion elsewhere.
I'm looking for an E350 (probably 15pax) to convert to 4x4 vs one that is already 4x4. I'm looking for input on engines from anyone with experience. I'm definitely leaning towards the V10 or 7.3, but there are a lot more, newer, cheaper V8 vans around. I don't plan on doing much towing and I'm not putting any heavy camper mods onto it. It will be used for family road trips and camping with some light to moderate offloading in the desert here or Colorado.
I have the little 4.6L V8 in my F150 4x4 and it has been enough, but a little weak. I know the E350 is a lot heavier.
My question is whether people feel the 5.4 v8 is too underpowered to be worth while, or if it may be sufficient. How's the durability vs other ford engines. Thanks!
 

cjken

Explorer
I had the 5.4 in my 250 quigley.
It was sufficient. I could easily tow a 21 foot boat but never really used it for big loads. Just toting kite/wind/surf gear and some camping.
 

simple

Adventurer
If you're wanting a 4x4 van in the end, I'd hold out for one that's already converted. That said, after weighing the pros and cons, I'm going to keep mine as a 2wd. Although Ujoints kits look awesome, my 8500 lb van will never be able to go the places my Fj40 land cruiser can go. When I worked for BC Forrest Service, I never needed to put my work truck in 4wd for any of the Forrest Service roads in the district. I figure the Limited Slip (or perhaps an air locker) and possibly a winch will take me anywhere I'll want to go. But hey, it's your money. For me, I'd rather keep the simpler drivetrain and better fuel economy.

This is gold right here. How much offroading do you currently do in a 4WD vehicle? 4x4 vans are mostly handy when you need to do a lot of snow driving.

Unless you need to tow heavy, small block V-8's are the best. Better fuel economy and cheaper annual maintenance. If you look at a rig with a V-10, makes sure the exhaust manifold studs are not broken off.
 

Mwilliamshs

Explorer
5.4 works fine. V10 and diesels just have the ability to make things happen faster. Taking off, climbing hills, draining the tank...the 5.4 is what was ordered in fleet vehicles because it does the same work cheaper, whereas individuals like the others because they do it faster.
 

radorsch

Adventurer
Thanks for the input! My wife wants a boat, and there may be a 24-26 footer in our future (van first, though). I want to make sure I have that option in the future, particularly if I bite the bullet and put upwards of 10k worth of 4x4 running gear into the van. However, sounds like the V8 may be sufficient, and worth a look.
Simple, I agree that Bikesmurf's got a great point. There are a few discussions about this. I am still considering just doing a lift and a truetrac/locker. The one thing I'd miss is the 4low. That low gearing has helped me get my mostly stock F150 up and down some grades I just couldn't have handled otherwise. I don't need to crawl over boulders and I dont do a ton of snow (although I certainly do some), but I do encounter steep loose grades and deep-ish sand. Plus, I just have an arguably irrational desire for 4x4.
If I did do just the lift and a locker, I'd want to make sure it was compatible with a potential future 4x4 conversion.
Thanks!
Rob
 

Mwilliamshs

Explorer
Gears, gears, gears. If you want to tow with larger than stock tires you should expect to change gears. If you want to drive off road with finesse expect to swap gears. The smaller mill will like the lower gears even more. I think Ford has manuals online for the newer vans that will list rated towing capacities for different drivetrains. Good resource when shopping.
 

simple

Adventurer
Thanks for the input! My wife wants a boat, and there may be a 24-26 footer in our future (van first, though). I want to make sure I have that option in the future, particularly if I bite the bullet and put upwards of 10k worth of 4x4 running gear into the van. However, sounds like the V8 may be sufficient, and worth a look.
Simple, I agree that Bikesmurf's got a great point. There are a few discussions about this. I am still considering just doing a lift and a truetrac/locker. The one thing I'd miss is the 4low. That low gearing has helped me get my mostly stock F150 up and down some grades I just couldn't have handled otherwise. I don't need to crawl over boulders and I dont do a ton of snow (although I certainly do some), but I do encounter steep loose grades and deep-ish sand. Plus, I just have an arguably irrational desire for 4x4.
If I did do just the lift and a locker, I'd want to make sure it was compatible with a potential future 4x4 conversion.
Thanks!
Rob

He he. No one will disagree that a lifted 4x4 van is one of the most bad *** looking rigs on the road and its fun as hell to charge up a hill or through some sand in 4WD. I bought my 2002 E350 7.3 Quigley 4x4 with under 100k miles for $12k. Granted I wasn't super happy with their suspension system but it worked great for just over the cost of converting a rig. The suspension would have been really good if I replaced the cheap front links with some custom fabricated ones that had adjustable length ends on them. The castor angle was a little off and when hitting sinks and frost heaves at 60mph I pretty much had to steer the van back onto the road. The lifted van with Quigley suspension was also a little harsh on a twisty narrow road. In spite of sway bars, it had pretty severe body roll so coming out of a corner, it would snap back to level which wasn't too bad but after several corners everyone riding started to feel a bit whipped around. The one ton suspension was also a little over kill since I wasn't hauling around a 1000lbs of screws or work stuff and didn't have a full RV kit in it. Sounds like your not either but when hauling 9 people that adds up. Have you looked a 4x4 short buses? JK although they can be bad *** too.

I also had sportsmobile install the pop top. They did a great job but it added extra weight and rattles going down the road. Nothing is perfect but If you keep it on DL, the Express 1500 AWD is frigging fantastic. No lift and no 4 low but so smooth and quiet and comfortable and gets in and out of those gravel road and sand camping spots like a dream.

Another thought here for ya is that for the two of you, a panel van is way better for recreatin and you could just rent a party van when the fam is in town. :)
 

radorsch

Adventurer
You're right, Mwilliamshs, proper gearing will probably go a long way, particularly with the 5.4L. I was hoping to find a van with at least 3.73 to start with. I know I'll probably need to go lower eventually, but I'd like to see what sized tire I end up with and how much towing I actually do before changing gears.
Simple, I agree... 4x4 vans are totally bad *** and make it possible for me to get a "family van". We really needed more space than my truck had, but I was just balking at minivans. Then the idea of a 4x4 van popped in my head after seeing a decked out SMB. I was really pleasantly surprised when the wife completely agreed! Thanks for the heads up on the Quigley. I've heard/read similar things about the suspension. I would certainly get a used one in good shape, and have scoped more than a few out online. I could live with the roughness for a bit, I think, with the likelihood of improving the suspension - actually Agile Offroad here in San Diego has a really nice ride improvement package for Quigleys (and others) - not sure if he sells it as a kit or just a full install, but the reviews are pretty solid! The ride on my van does need to be good enough to keep the wife and kids happy on longer trips... which is also why we need to go with the PG rated passenger version and not build out a shaggin-wagon! :(
BTW, those short-bus conversions are pretty killer. I'd love to convert one, but that was one step too far for the wife at this point.
I looked long and hard at the 1500 AWD. I really like what some others have done with it. I'm just having trouble with the fact that it only comes in the 1500 with 8 pass max. I could make it work, but it would just barely do so. Still in the back of my mind. I think Boulder makes a kit to lift them 2" and fit 31" tire for a reasonable price (their AWD 4" lift kit is like 4500).
I was going to add a poptop camper as the first major modification (after suspension). Is the rattle bad/annoying, or just a little squeeky? I loved the poptop in my dad's VW camper growing up and I think out kids would love sleeping up there.
Thanks!
Rob
 

simple

Adventurer
Regarding the rattles in the pop top. I mostly noticed it on gravel roads and occasionally on the pavement. The added weight on the roof contributed to a little more body roll when cornering. It's not a bad deal, just a trade off. Seems like most people that have them are happy with the set up. The pop top was not ideal for me living in the land of cold, moss and algae. I liked the popper for tripping around with buddies because it offered a second place to sleep but it felt a little cramped for me and the lady. Were both 6' tall.
I looked at the Agile Offroad site last night. Looks like they are doing some cool stuff over there. If it's nearby, it might be worth a visit when shopping for vans. You could compare theirs to a Quigley and see what direction you want to go.
 

tgreening

Expedition Leader
I've had or have pretty much every Engine in this discussion so I'll toss in my unadjusted $0.02. If I were buying a van with any chance I might be converting it to 4x4, and any chance I might be doing some towing, I'd steer away from the 5.4. I never really realized any significant fuel savings especially if was expected to pull any load. And to be honest, a loaded up passenger/camper van is pretty much a load in itself.

The 6.0: Diesels are cool. Modern diesels are powerful and just about as responsive as a gasser now. Modern diesels will also drain your bank account in nothing flat when something goes wrong, because when it does go wrong it tends to go wrong in a big big way. Unless you are pulling a lot and pulling heavy, it's pretty hard to justify the initial and potential expense of the modern diesel.

7.3 diesel: Durable and when something goes wrong it's usually not as wallet killing as a 6.0. Btw, did the 6.4 ever actually come in the E-series? If it did, see issues related to 6.0 r.e. cost to repair and necessity in the platform. The 7.3 can't make the power of the other two, as easily or cheaply, but it doesn't really need to. It's plenty capable, especially if you aren't planning on towing heavy all the time. Biggest con is you want a newer van, and the 7.3 was shelved a decade ago.

V10: IMO, this is where you're at. It has the grunt, the fuel mileage was not significantly different between it and the 5.4 when just cruising about, it's durable and long lasting, not crazy expensive to fix the things that tend to go wrong, and it can be had in a late model van. What's not to like?

Short version is I would not opt for a late model diesel if I were not intending to tow a lot and tow heavy. If you aren't it's wasted money and financially risky for no real benefit. To me the 5.4 is saddling you with a lack of available power for not enough fuel savings to warrant it. The 7.3 comes wrapped in a skin too old for your wants. The V10 has more advantages than drawbacks and would win the day in my book.

My DD is a F-450 with a 6.4 that will pull down a mountain. The high pressure fuel pump failed when it was idling in my driveway. If I trusted Ford enough to take it to them for repair that is a $12,000+ job. I don't so I took it to my trusted diesel shop and paid a bit more than half of that. I have an F-350 with a 6.0 in it and the high pressure oil pump failed in it while twoing a trailer through PA road construction, which backed up traffic for miles since it was one lane, no where to go, and getting it a tow comapny that could handle the combo took some work. Ford took a stab at that one, charged me $4,000 for the honor, and failed to find/fix all the bits the initial failure compromised, which led to another failure shortly thereafter.

You see where I'm headed? My trucks pull, they pull a lot, and then tend to pull heavy. Where a diesel shines. If you don't need it, don't risk it.
 

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