Camper Thermal Engineering for Extreme Cold & High-Altitude: Arctic Antarctica Tibet

biotect

Designer
Addendum:


Here are some more large Arctic vehicles, these ones used by "Mountaineers of Iceland", a company that specializes in taking tourists on trips across Iceland's glaciers.

The first set are photos for Mountaineer's 8x8 MAN-KAT conversion:


mountaineers_The-Man_Kat_8x8_monstertruck1.jpg 2777@x.png.jpg 1165436-mountaineers2-of-iceland-truck.jpg
4357734184_9828b08c77_o.jpg 2677@x.png.jpg photo-4.jpg
1006248_444172329014316_1806006771_n.jpg 5164849433_f73dbd5e5e_o.jpg 5164859713_8f56d5eb36_o.jpg
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biotect

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Here are some photos of this MAN-KAT 8x8 taking in the northern lights, or Aurora Borealis -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora
, http://www.northernlightscentre.ca/northernlights.html , http://www.hurtigruten.co.uk/Experiences/Northern-lights/ , http://www.hurtigruten.co.uk/Experiences/Northern-lights/what-are-the-northern-lights/ , http://www.hurtigruten.co.uk/Experiences/Northern-lights/Northern-Lights/ , and http://www.hurtigruten.co.uk/Experiences/Northern-lights/the-northern-lights/ :


1383279_494928943938654_428489510_n.jpg 1012711_494928997271982_1327493966_n.jpg 1921236_549482731816608_1099278444_o.jpg


And here is a rare shot of the interior of this vehicle:


Screen-shot-2013-02-10-at-11.27.34-PM copy.jpg


Here is another large 8x8 truck used by Mountaineers of Iceland. This truck is not listed on their current "Supertrucks" web-page -- see
http://mountaineers.is/super-trucks/ . Apparently this is a very recent purchase, and on Mountaineer's Facebook website they describe it as their new "amazing BovMan Truck" -- see https://www.facebook.com/mountaineersoficeland . The truck seems to be either a MAN TGS or TGA 8x8:


IMG_5263-1024x682.jpg 20140703_132753_000_resized1.jpg 10570528_624476677650546_313870512930404171_n.jpg
10527797_610101219088092_2423099513344512099_n.jpg IMG_52581.jpg



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biotect

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Now from my own point of view as a designer, perhaps the most interesting vehicle on the "Mountaineers of Iceland" website is what looks to be a 6x6 MAN-KAT conversion, in which the camper body is fully integrated with the cab -- see http://mountaineers.is/super-trucks/ :


9308_472497502848465_1556688377_n.jpg ........mountaineers_bus1.jpg mountaineers-of-iceland.jpg


Full-integration is possible in this vehicle because MAN-KAT trucks have torsion-free frames that do not twist. As such, they do not need a 3-point pivoting subframe for the camper body. The camper body and the cab of the vehicle do not need to remain separate, and they can be structurally fused, as demonstrated here. For further discussion, see http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...-8x8-Expedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame .

Unfortunately, I was able to find only 3 photos of this particular vehicle on the web. If anyone reading this comes across more images of this vehicle, by all means, please post!

Furthermore, there are no detailed specifications for any these vehicles on the "Mountaineers of Iceland" website. I also looked up "BovMan" with Google, and found nothing. So it's not clear what "BovMan" is meant to signify; it's not clear whether "BovMan" is a conversion specialist, for instance.

So if anyone reading this knows the technical specifications for any these trucks in greater detail, please post!

All best wishes,



Biotect
 
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biotect

Designer
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NeverEnough then replied to the above series of posts as follows:

Traveling, but a quick reply. I use supplemental heat at 20 above zero, not below. But the most important concept is knowing what your heat loss is for any given living space, then come up with enough heat to compensate for that. As long as you know the properties of the enclosure and the worst case external conditions, you can do the math. But you're going to need either an extremely well- insulated shell or a very high output heating system to deal with the condipns described. And I'd be most worried about my truck starting.
 
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biotect

Designer
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dwh
also posted the following in "High Altitude Heating", immediately following NeverEnough's post:

Just read this thread for the first time. A couple of thoughts...

I'm pretty sure that a Fisher Panda uses the same Kubota engine as that which was used in the Hackey's generator, which IIRC they bought from Next Generation Power Engineering.

(Personally, I prefer the design of the NextGen unit over the FP for various reasons, and I believe the NextGen is half the price. For one thing, the NextGen uses the Markon Alternator, which is a sweet alternator.)

Kubota does make some of their small diesel engines with turbochargers (though not the *really* small ones - like the EA series). Still, it should be no big deal to have NextGen whip up a genset using a Kubota engine with a turbo - the smallest of which appears to be the BG/O3-M Series, which is a 35hp unit as opposed to the 7hp unit in the NextGen and FP - driving some suitable alternator:

http://www.kubotaengine.com/assets/documents/BG Full Line.pdf

It may even be possible to just buy one of the Kubota brand gensets with a turbo, but I don't find that mentioned in any of the product literature:

http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/generators/gl-series


For completeness sake...

Eric Badger pulled off a neat high-altitude hack for his diesel stove:

"The stove was clearly designed for operation at sea-level and thus the mixture was almost always going to be too rich for where we are. The follow-on model of stove has accommodation for a switch to run at higher altitude, but that is a significant investment. A bit of investigation revealed that one of the potentiometers (R13) on our stove control board was the mixture control, adjusting the periodicity of the fuel pump strokes. As set from the factory it was 69k ohms and yielded 44 pump strokes per minute at full, while 87k yielded a 5000ft friendly 38 stokes per minute. We removed the potentiometer and replaced it with a fixed 70k resistor plus a dial potentiometer calibrated to altitude settings where we dial in altitude before firing up the stove."

http://www.badgertrek.com/sportsmobile/appliances.shtml

[EDIT: Forgot to mention, it should be possible to tie in a barometric pressure sensor and automate the adjustment.]

It's still just leaning out the mixture of course, and no doubt Charlie's Unicat Webasto hack would achieve the same thing in a similar fashion. What I like both about the Badger Hack and the Unicat Hack is that they are variable rate, rather than two fixed rates which you get with the dual pump setup.

Of course, there's gotta be some limit, so who knows if either the stove or the heater would work at 15k' when they've been leaned out to a fuel/air ratio in the parts per billion range... :D
 
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biotect

Designer
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In "High Altitude Heating", I then responded to NeverEnough and dwh as follows:

What I like both about the Badger Hack and the Unicat Hack is that they are variable rate, rather than two fixed rates which you get with the dual pump setup.

Yes, agreed.

Best, of course, it's much preferred if the automatic adjustment is manufacturer-supplied and completely built-in. The latest Eberpracher MII-10 and MII-12 Hydronic heaters come from the factory with fully automatic altitude adjustment up to 3,500 m or 11,500 feet, and seem to be unique even compared to other Eberspracher products -- see http://www.esparparts.com/techsupport/pdfs/High Altitude Kits/High altitude options 11-2012.pdf , http://www.eberspacher.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters/water-heating.html , http://www.espar.com/products/fuel-...t-selection/coolant-heaters/hydronic-mii.html , http://www.espar.com/fileadmin/data/countrysites/EB_Kanada/pdf/Hydronic_M-II_Spec_sheet.pdf , and http://www.eberspaecher.co.uk/filea...zeugheizungen/je_wasserheizungen_tab03_en.jpg .

Neither Webasto nor Truma make a heater that goes as high-altitude automatically, as standard specification.

But still, for heights above that, something more is required, and playing with the electronics of a heater is not for the incompetent. The average altitude of the Tibetan plateau is 4,500 m. Apparently the Germans who came up with the multi-pump solution consulted extensively with specialists at Eberspracher, Frau Gabriela S. und Dipl.Ing. Marcel S. -- see https://sites.google.com/site/whitemankat/about-us/fahrzeug-daten-technik/fahrer-haus-heizung and http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...us/fahrzeug-daten-technik/fahrer-haus-heizung , and for still photos and lots of google-translate links, see post #399 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page40 (standard ExPo pagination).

.....you're going to need either an extremely well- insulated shell or a very high output heating system to deal with the conditions described. And I'd be most worried about my truck starting.

Very much agreed, NeverEnough: if one intends to drive in extreme winter weather, one needs to be prepared. On the Canadian Prairies most vehicles have engine-heaters, and very ordinary suburban tract homes come with heated garages as standard. That way you can walk straight from your heated home to your pre-heated car, a car that you will have no problem starting. You're then set to drive off into a −20 °C winter, or worse....

:safari-rig:

Once you're out there, of course, if you park your car above-ground, you might come back to find it frozen. Here's where technology like the Eberspracher Hydronic heater comes in, a heater that not only extracts heat from the engine, but can also put it back.

But with that said, , thanks to dwh, over in the "Fully Integrated MAN or TATRA" thread we've begun discussing microturbines. So perhaps 4 or 5 years from now, maybe starting an ICE vehicle in extreme cold conditions will prove a bit moot, if heavy hybrids range-extended by microturbines begin to catch on.


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biotect

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1. Ivan the Antarctic Terrabus


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In the meantime, it's worth emphasizing that lots of ICE vehicles work reasonably well in extreme-cold climates, for instance, Antarctica.

One of my favorites is "Ivan the Terrabus", made by a Canadian company, Foremost Industries -- see http://www.foremost.ca/about/company-background , http://www.foremost.ca/products/vehicles , http://www.foremost.ca/products/terra-bus , and http://www.foremost.ca/sites/default/files/images/terra_bus.pdf , http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Bus , http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foremost_Terra_Bus , http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Terra_Bus , http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Terra_Bus , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_coach , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMurdo_Station .

Ivan's primary job is ferrying passengers between the Pegasus airfield and McMurdo Station:


2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 16 030.jpg Arriving_sm.jpg IMG_0076.jpg
1_Ivan.jpg Ivan_the_Terra_Bus,_in_Antarctica_-a.jpg Ivan_the_Terra_Bus,_in_Antarctica_-b.jpg
2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 11 021 - Copy.jpg dsc_6215.jpg terra_bus.jpg
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20081230 Ivan on the Williams Field Road.jpg 5193598075_5039628eb6_z.jpg Ivan the Terra Bus at the transition.jpg
Ivan_the_Terra_Bus,_in_Antarctica_-f.jpg 4MC.jpg McM-Ivan-the-terra-bus.jpg
terrabus0.jpg 20081206 Ivan the Terra Bus, McMurdo.jpg IvanLoRes.jpg
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biotect

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The previous set of images of Ivan the Terrabus next to buildings provided some sense of scale. The first image below, with the Terrabus parked next to some more "normally" proportioned vehicles, provides an even better sense of just how big it is:


7_ivan_terra_bus.jpg MG_3959RST.jpg Ivan_and_a_Delta.jpg
2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 16 029.jpg ANTARCTICA_010.jpg Ivan_the_Terra_Bus4.jpg
Antarctica 415a.jpg 2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 11 018.jpg DSCN1524.jpg
ivan.jpg



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biotect

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In these images, people standing next to the Terrabus' huge 6 foot tires provide another indication of size. Also notice the interesting drop-down entry staircase. I've not seen anything quite like this on other vehicles, in so far as the staircase seems to "nest" deeply inside the body of the vehicle, and opens not just from the side, but also from underneath. The hinge is located at least a foot or two in, relative to the side of the vehicle. The staircase then looks very "futuristic" when it opens, even though Ivan the Terrabus is now a fairly old vehicle.

Ivan the Terrabus is a "pusher" diesel, with the engine located in back, as suggested by pictures taken of the back of other Terrabuses in service in Canada -- see post #90 below, this page, standard ExPo pagination. It might be harder to configure such a deeply set entrance staircase in a COE design, albeit not impossible. See for instance the flat-nosed "Bluebird" bus at http://www.bargainbusnews.com/Buses/3818-1995BlueBirdTC-2000/3818-1995BlueBirdTC-2000-1.jpg , a COE bus with an embedded entryway (many thanks to dhw for providing this link). But perhaps not as deeply embedded as Ivan's staircase?

In particular, Ivan's front-end reminds me of the Rosenbaur Panther ARFF, whose pusher-diesel design enables the entire floor of the cab to drop really, really low. This dramatically improves access, giving fire-fighters the ability to quickly enter/exit the Rosenbauer Panther, despite the fact that it's a heavy truck with huge Michelin tires, terrific ground clearance, and a MAN SX-45 chassis -- see posts # 17 - #22, post # 19 in particular, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...xpedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page2 and http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...xpedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page3 .

Of course, the driver's position in Ivan the Terrabus is not low like the Panther, as evidenced by the photograph of Ivan's driver with his door open, below. But even still, in terms of overall exterior geometry up front, Ivan does seems vaguely reminiscent of the Panther; and so too, perhaps even more reminiscent of the front-end of the MAN HX and SX series of trucks? See posts #249 - #277, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page25 to http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page28 for lots of imagery and discussion.


Ivan_the_Terra_Bus,_in_A3ntarctica_-g.jpg 18IMG_1082_sm.jpg Antarctica 417.jpg
weiss_10_ivan_wheels.JPG postcard_ivan.jpg P1020156v.jpg
2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 11 007.jpg 2012-13 Antarctica C Nov 11 008.jpg Antarctica 412.jpg
img_5152.jpg


For websites with information about Ivan the Terrabus, see http://www.caranddriver.com/features/polar-motion-a-look-inside-driving-in-antarctica-feature , http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-...el-to-and-from-mcmurdos-airfield-photo-396270 , https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ivan-the-Terra-Bus/185942968156281 , http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/contenthandler.cfm?id=2887 , http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/contentHandler.cfm?id=1866 , http://coldryandfarsouth.blogspot.it/2010/10/7-october-ivan-terra-bus.html , http://www.frozendentist.com/cool-polar-transports/ , and http://randy-joyofdiscovery.blogspot.it/2012/11/ivan-terra-bus.html .

From the last website just referenced:

One of the vehicles I drive almost daily is IVAN, the Terra bus. It's a huge passenger transport, 46' long, over 12' wide and 14' tall with tires that are almost 6' in diameter. It holds 56 passengers, 5 gallons (not quarts) of oil, 80 gallons of diesel fuel (66 Imperial gallons) and gets 4-5 mpg.

Ivan the Terra Bus is world famous, has it's own song, (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KgYg8-J5Gs ) and a video of the driving conditions on the Pegasus road: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4aClRySy8Y )

Ivan's not a classy guy, but rather a functional piece of equipment with its very own style. Just don't ask him to turn on a dime. I love driving him and enjoy the challenge of trying to stay one step ahead of Ivan's quirky personality and massive turn radius. Ivan is turning 19 years old next month, with over 11,800 hours on his clock, and sadly, is showing his age. Ivan was build in Calgary, Alberta, Canada in December, 1993.


Here are two videos of Ivan. The second shows how the entry staircase deploys:




For some blogs with pictures of Ivan, in no particular order, see http://newswatch.nationalgeographic...n-ice-arriving-in-mcmurdo-station-antarctica/ , http://antarcticfudgesicles.wordpress.com/page/4/ ,http://scrippsblogs.ucsd.edu/antarctica/2013/02/12/antarctica-first-impressions/ , http://www.ig.utexas.edu/people/staff/blank/projects/icecap/gallery.html , http://tea.armadaproject.org/weiss/1.2.2003.html , http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19634 , http://ciresblogs.colorado.edu/antarcticuavs/page/2/ , http://www.polartrec.com/expedition...s-in-the-southern-ocean/journals/2011-02-14-3 , http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2011/02/ground-transport-chatham-islands-style.html , http://dc-onice.blogspot.com/2008/11/sunday-afternoon-walk-to-mcmurdo.html , http://users.phys.psu.edu/~cowen/amanda/travel-log/pole-pictures.html , http://www.earthgauge.net/2010/arrival-and-ivan-the-terra-bus , http://icestories.exploratorium.edu/dispatches/finally-on-the-ice/ , http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~z3318051/spd/spd.php?date=20121223_John , http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~z3318051/spd/spd-allchron.php , http://blogs.oregonstate.edu/hailingfrozenthoughts/2011/11/06/ice-flight/ , http://rebeccapriestley.com/page/3/ , http://www.irmahale.com/1999f.html , http://superviolaman.blogspot.com/2011/10/antarctic-highlights.html , http://randy-joyofdiscovery.blogspot.com/2011/12/more-mcmurdo-randomness.html , https://downandout.wordpress.com/category/life/page/2/ , http://transportblog.co.nz/2013/02/05/magnetic-south-lessons-from-antarctica/ , http://starsandskiesandsuch.wordpress.com/author/starsandskiesandsuch/ , http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/Photo_...rys_Hall_Album/tn/Ivan the Terra bus.JPG.html , http://glacierexplorer.com/2012/11/inside-look-into-mcmurdo-research-station/ , http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu/blog/2014/01/09/planes-trainings-and-snowmobiles-and-pegasus-aws/ , http://seatermonice.blogspot.com , http://www.steminaction.org/blog/2012/2/15/goodbyes.html , http://wy-mt.water.usgs.gov/projects/antarctica/htms/journal.htm , http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/fromthefield/2011/12/01/we-are-in-antarctica/ , http://www.aspiringecologist.com/2011_10_01_archive.html , and http://brownpaperblueink.com/2013/04/

These make for fun and interesting reading, that is, if you're curious about what life is like for scientists and technicians working and exploring way, way down under.....:REOutIceFishing:


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biotect

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Ivan is not invincible. Here are two (rare) images of Ivan stuck in a ditch:


003.jpg 002.jpg



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biotect

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3. Tracked Vehicles in Antarctica


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Even still, Ivan stands as testimony to the extraordinary range of climactic conditions that ICE vehicles with wheels can successfully negotiate, still useful in a land where tracked vehicles rule:


antarctic2.jpg SPF1.jpg Antarctica _vehicle.jpg
Antarctica 386.jpg 18nbldyhopr1kjpg.jpg IMG_0315-snocat.jpg
Tucker_sno-cat.jpg TransAntarcticExpedition.jpg



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Antarctica 288.jpg McM-Traverse-tractor.jpg Antarctica 123.jpg
antarctic9.jpg antarctic8.jpg haaglund.jpg
antarctic10.jpg HaaglundsBv-106Antarctic.jpg A08_ST.jpg
Hagglund_BV-206_in_Antarctica.jpg



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antarctic.jpg antarctic3.jpg antarctic6.jpg


[video=youtube;LnZlo_O3h7Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnZlo_O3h7Q [/video]


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_Sno-Cat , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandvagn_206 , http://asd.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/tiger/vehicles.html , http://route-this.blogspot.com/2012/01/trains.html , http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/science/contentHandler.cfm?id=1239 , http://tea.armadaproject.org/weiss/1.2.2003.html , http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19413 , http://sorpolen2011.npolar.no/en/di...used-to-find-hidden-lakes-and-safe-paths.html , http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living.../page?id=142986&st=142986&dt=MjAxNC0wOC0wMQ== , http://www.antarctica.gov.au/scienc...a-basin/aurora-basin-blog/week-3-waiting-game , http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living...sey/2008/this-week-at-casey-19-september-2008 , http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living...is/page?id=39852&st=39852&dt=MjcgTWF5IDIwMTE= , http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living.../page?id=138135&st=138135&dt=MjAxNC0wNS0xNg== , http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/UAV/milestones/uav_over_antarctica.html , http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/album/articulated-tracked-vehicles-heavy/ , http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/indrik/Interesting , and http://glacierexplorer.com/2012/12/welcome-to-the-south-pole/ .

For an excellent, concise survey of land vehicles in Antarctica, covering the full range, see http://jalopnik.com/5379341/the-land-vehicles-of-antarctica/ .


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