Isotherm/Calorifier question
- Thread starter ScottReb
- Start date
nick disjunkt
Adventurer
Hi, I have a Nautic Quick BX25 calorifier which is pretty similar to the isotherm ones. It's pretty quick on the 240v electric element, but how quick yours is will depend on which element is fitted. Mine is 1200w, and yields useably hot water with 15 minutes. To heat the whole tank to near boiling takes less than 30 minutes.
campo
Adventurer
I have also the Quick BX25
With the electrical heating element of 1200 Watt I estimate the average time at 20 minutes but all depends of the water tank start temperature.
The stainless steel loop inside the calorifier is connected to my Hydronic 5 heater.
I estimate the size of heat transmission there at 2.000 Watt. It takes +/- 15 minutes to heat the 25 litres water for a shower after firering the hydronic.
With the electrical heating element of 1200 Watt I estimate the average time at 20 minutes but all depends of the water tank start temperature.
The stainless steel loop inside the calorifier is connected to my Hydronic 5 heater.
I estimate the size of heat transmission there at 2.000 Watt. It takes +/- 15 minutes to heat the 25 litres water for a shower after firering the hydronic.
campo
Adventurer
If you would only use the calorifier with the electrical heat element you need a lot of power !
And direct conversion to heat up water from a cold tank at +5°C to +38°C, what is shower temperature,
for an economy shower with 7 liters/minute you need about 7.000 Watt.
Impossible to take that out of your electrical board system.
And direct conversion to heat up water from a cold tank at +5°C to +38°C, what is shower temperature,
for an economy shower with 7 liters/minute you need about 7.000 Watt.
Impossible to take that out of your electrical board system.
If it 1200 watt/hr and it takes 30 minutes to heat up that's 600 watts. 600/12volts= 50 amp/hr. Plus what the inverter eats up. That seems totally doable. Im shooting for 500 aH li battery bank. I was in the Marine Corp, so Im very familiar with a Navy shower. Again this will not be my primary water heater.
Still struggling with vehicle choice. Were fairly limited with options in this country. But either way we will have about 800-1000 watts of solar on the roof and 500 aH batt. Lithium technology is only getting better. There are several RVs that use the Li batteries now and of course electric vehicles. Plenty of folks have documented there us in RVs. As for 12v vs 24v, not sure. We generally see 12V in vehicles here, where as the rest of the world use 24V. Similar to 120-240 with homes I guess. Were not retiring for about 7+ years. Im hoping to start on the truck in the next 2 years. That will give us a few years to work out bugs in this country. We will head to Europe as my wife is Romanian and owns a home there. We will be selling property here in the States so the truck will be our full time home.
What about your rig? Build/pics...
What about your rig? Build/pics...
campo
Adventurer
Hi Scott !
Interesting because my European expedition RV (TGM 13290) is almost ready.
Built for longer trips in all climates. It was a 2 years building project.
I also have to work for 7+years as you call it so nicely.
I have 520 Wp solar and GEL 440Ah/24V = 4x220Ah 12V batteries. That is 270kg.
The time was not ready for Lithium. Although I know Lithium very good.
I considered it still in the beginning phase and not yet ready for my all-purpose 4x4 vehicle.
Maybe when you start in 2 years yes. (I think you live not that far from Reno - the new factory?)
You are right that it is incredible that some bigger US trucks are still in 12V, very old fashioned.
If the basic truck is 24V you must do the rest also in 24V (with some minor 12V circuits).
Here my complex sanitary water circuit. Don't make a double system for a normal RV.
Interesting because my European expedition RV (TGM 13290) is almost ready.
Built for longer trips in all climates. It was a 2 years building project.
I also have to work for 7+years as you call it so nicely.
I have 520 Wp solar and GEL 440Ah/24V = 4x220Ah 12V batteries. That is 270kg.
The time was not ready for Lithium. Although I know Lithium very good.
I considered it still in the beginning phase and not yet ready for my all-purpose 4x4 vehicle.
Maybe when you start in 2 years yes. (I think you live not that far from Reno - the new factory?)
You are right that it is incredible that some bigger US trucks are still in 12V, very old fashioned.
If the basic truck is 24V you must do the rest also in 24V (with some minor 12V circuits).
Here my complex sanitary water circuit. Don't make a double system for a normal RV.
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Joe917
Explorer
Just because your vehicle is 24v does not mean the camper must be 24v as well. The advantage of 24v over 12v is smaller wiring, however it only makes a real difference with high amperages such as your inverter. The advantage of a 12v system is a much larger selection of lights,pumps,fans etc.
My truck is 24v, the camper is 12v. There is complete separation of the two systems apart from a 24v to 12v battery to battery charger(Stirling). This protects the truck system and starter batteries from any issues with the camper electrics. There is no reason to solar charge your starter batteries on a vehicle driven regularly. If you store for a month that is different.
It may be argued the disadvantage of a 12v and24v system is you have to reconnect your house batteries in order to jump start your starter batteries.This is such an unlikely scenario as to be irrelevant. I carry a 24v charger just in case.
It may be argued a 24v only system allows parrallell charging from the vehicles alternator. THIS IS A BAD IDEA DO NOT DO IT. Parrallell charging two different size and type of batteries is a good way to shorten the life of both. Deep cycle batteries need a quality high amperage charger.
Forget lithium it will be decades before it is price comparable(if ever) to lead. Weight is the main reason to go to lithium. Gel and AGM are a wate of money for deep cycle. Six volt golf cart batteries will outperform and outlast both, you just can't turn them on their sides,
My truck is 24v, the camper is 12v. There is complete separation of the two systems apart from a 24v to 12v battery to battery charger(Stirling). This protects the truck system and starter batteries from any issues with the camper electrics. There is no reason to solar charge your starter batteries on a vehicle driven regularly. If you store for a month that is different.
It may be argued the disadvantage of a 12v and24v system is you have to reconnect your house batteries in order to jump start your starter batteries.This is such an unlikely scenario as to be irrelevant. I carry a 24v charger just in case.
It may be argued a 24v only system allows parrallell charging from the vehicles alternator. THIS IS A BAD IDEA DO NOT DO IT. Parrallell charging two different size and type of batteries is a good way to shorten the life of both. Deep cycle batteries need a quality high amperage charger.
Forget lithium it will be decades before it is price comparable(if ever) to lead. Weight is the main reason to go to lithium. Gel and AGM are a wate of money for deep cycle. Six volt golf cart batteries will outperform and outlast both, you just can't turn them on their sides,
http://www.technomadia.com/lithium/
Here is good blog about a couple who have been using Li for a couple years now. Yes it is more expensive. About $6 Ah. Compare that to a 6V Lifeline AGM 440 Ah. You need 4 to get 440 Ah, remember they can only run down to about 50%. Li you can use more of the Ah that you have. It will weigh 120 KG, will take up about 25"x14"x16" and cost about $2500. There are of course cheaper batteries. But just as an example. Lead is definitely the most economical. I totally agree with that. I used it in my Alaskan/flatbed. But again you are buying Ah you don't use and the weight and size. Charging is the same. Plus you need to vent and spilling is a possibility.
Now current lithium iron phosphate 500Ah $3000, 75 Kgs, 21"x14"x11". Now there are a lot other things to discuss as well. But generally speaking Li batteries have been lasting greater than 10 years in cars, with the older technology. As far as exploding, there have been Honda Insight running around for almost 20 years (1996). Haven't heard of many of them with issues. Still has a huge following with the hypermiler crowd. Then there is the ease of charging Li. No need to force that last 5% into the battery, that requires a huge amount of energy, i.e. panels. The off grid home guys know how this works very well. Were are basically trying to build a small off grid home. They run 2 sometimes 3x the amount of panels as batteries (watts to amps).
Yes the Tesla super factory. Well see if that helps out cost with the competition. Its in conjunction Panasonic who is already the biggest, or one of the biggest Li battery producers. So they may just become a bigger and not cheaper. Remains to be seen how and if it helps.
Thats my rant about lithium, are they the greatest thing since sliced bread, probably not. But they are the best we have currently.
Now back to the thread...
Here is good blog about a couple who have been using Li for a couple years now. Yes it is more expensive. About $6 Ah. Compare that to a 6V Lifeline AGM 440 Ah. You need 4 to get 440 Ah, remember they can only run down to about 50%. Li you can use more of the Ah that you have. It will weigh 120 KG, will take up about 25"x14"x16" and cost about $2500. There are of course cheaper batteries. But just as an example. Lead is definitely the most economical. I totally agree with that. I used it in my Alaskan/flatbed. But again you are buying Ah you don't use and the weight and size. Charging is the same. Plus you need to vent and spilling is a possibility.
Now current lithium iron phosphate 500Ah $3000, 75 Kgs, 21"x14"x11". Now there are a lot other things to discuss as well. But generally speaking Li batteries have been lasting greater than 10 years in cars, with the older technology. As far as exploding, there have been Honda Insight running around for almost 20 years (1996). Haven't heard of many of them with issues. Still has a huge following with the hypermiler crowd. Then there is the ease of charging Li. No need to force that last 5% into the battery, that requires a huge amount of energy, i.e. panels. The off grid home guys know how this works very well. Were are basically trying to build a small off grid home. They run 2 sometimes 3x the amount of panels as batteries (watts to amps).
Yes the Tesla super factory. Well see if that helps out cost with the competition. Its in conjunction Panasonic who is already the biggest, or one of the biggest Li battery producers. So they may just become a bigger and not cheaper. Remains to be seen how and if it helps.
Thats my rant about lithium, are they the greatest thing since sliced bread, probably not. But they are the best we have currently.
Now back to the thread...
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Campo
thanks for the schematic, looks good. Am I correct in your truck is finished?? Do you have some pics? I didn't look.
Joe
Ill probably end up with a 12V truck and house. Its just easier on this continent. You have the older diesel tech and 24V already. I agree you can go with either. We have way more 12V options over here. Campo in EU, the opposite.
thanks for the schematic, looks good. Am I correct in your truck is finished?? Do you have some pics? I didn't look.
Joe
Ill probably end up with a 12V truck and house. Its just easier on this continent. You have the older diesel tech and 24V already. I agree you can go with either. We have way more 12V options over here. Campo in EU, the opposite.
campo
Adventurer
I am coming back on the difference between 12V and 24V.
Please live in the future and not in the past.
The higher the voltage is the smaller the wirings can be and the lower the losses will be.
So if you can, make a 48V vehicle in stead of a 12V.
There is absolutely no reason today why you would make a 12V living cel on a standard 24V truck.
In the past it was impossible to find some components in 24V like fridge, lights and so on.
That is the reason why some guys still think about making there living compartment in 12V on a standard 24V truck.
Today that is different.
Realy more than 95% percent of the power consumers on board exists in 24V (waterpumps, led, fridges, heaters,...)
Just look for it and forget about what some people did in the past.
(and of course keep using full 12volt equipment on 12V basic vehicles)
Please live in the future and not in the past.
The higher the voltage is the smaller the wirings can be and the lower the losses will be.
So if you can, make a 48V vehicle in stead of a 12V.
There is absolutely no reason today why you would make a 12V living cel on a standard 24V truck.
In the past it was impossible to find some components in 24V like fridge, lights and so on.
That is the reason why some guys still think about making there living compartment in 12V on a standard 24V truck.
Today that is different.
Realy more than 95% percent of the power consumers on board exists in 24V (waterpumps, led, fridges, heaters,...)
Just look for it and forget about what some people did in the past.
(and of course keep using full 12volt equipment on 12V basic vehicles)