US NP and BLM expo vehicle

jream2008

Member
Hello all Expoers,

I'm not 100% new to Expo but I'm definitely evolving. I currently own a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with a great AEV lift and Gobi rack, which is great for a weekend of camping with my wife and 2 kids (8 & 10). I plan to hold onto this Jeep until I die (another 35 years?).

However, it does NOT meet the needs of what I would like to do, which is tour North America for weeks/months at a time, primarily focused on National Parks and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) open land, such as in the UT, CO, WY, AK areas as well as parts of Canada. We also love the NPs in California and Oregon. I'm thinking of doing this over the next 8-10 years with my kids and after that with my wife.

I generally prefer to camp at a remote lake that you can only reach by 4x4, but realize that there will be many times when we don't yet have 'that' site identified and have to sleep in the parking lot of the main park HQ. we did just that last summer at Zion, and the rented Ticonderoga RV was awesome for just pulling over and going to sleep (despite the fact that I thought it would fall apart on the highway). To add to the complexity, I am 6'5", my wife is 5'9" and my 2 kids aren't getting smaller, so we need pretty serious acccomodations. AND I'd like to figure out how to explore this amazing country without dropping $200 or more every night for a motel and restaurant.

What I'm trying to figure out is NOT what the best vehicle would be for this - I know that will just invite flame wars. What I'm looking for are the hard lessons people have learned expeditioning in these areas:

* when exploring the US and Canada, how much does size come into play? I'm currently spoiled with my Jeep, so I'd like something compact that can reach remote locations, but does that really end up mattering much? i.e. would a full-size pickup with pop top get too big? How about a crew cab Fuso with fiberglass camper?

* how much weather protection do I need if I will mostly expo during the summer months? I don't necessarily want to HAVE to park it all winter, but I probably will...

* what is the reality of in-vehicle sleeping? By that, I mean, if you have a campsite or are on open land, you can pitch a tent. The appeal of in-vehicle sleeping (everything from Unicat to XP to Sportsmobile to ATW or EarthCruiser) is that you can sleep wherever you stop. But can you? Can you just pull over on the side of the road and sleep? How hard is it to find a place to stop for the night?

I am currently in the stage of falling in love with all of the different vehicle vendors (Tiger, XP, Sportsmobile, EarthCruiser, EarthRoamer, Unicat, ActionMobil, AEV. DAMN I REALLY want a Unicat), but I don't really know what is going to end up being important.

What are the REAL road lessons out there that people have learned?

Thank you in advance!

Jason
 

doug720

Expedition Leader
Get an RV that fits your family and tow the jeep with a tow bar. You have the comforts of home, weather protection, cooking, bathroom for mom, and the jeep to explore with. In addition, you always have a second vehicle if something happens.

We have traveled 10's of thousands of miles over the years like this,

No right answer, just what ever works best for you and the family.
 

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mhiscox

Expedition Leader
I am currently in the stage of falling in love with all of the different vehicle vendors (Tiger, XP, Sportsmobile, EarthCruiser, EarthRoamer, Unicat, ActionMobil, AEV. DAMN I REALLY want a Unicat), but I don't really know what is going to end up being important.
It sounds like you know your stuff, Jason, but be sure you weigh the advantages of a full-on expedition rig with their size and utility demerits. For seven years I owned a Sahara-veteran, go-anywhere, four-person Unimog camper

CamperMog007.jpg~original


that provided absolutely outstanding accommodations once we arrived. But the hassles of slow cruise speed, low fuel economy, physical size and general "big truckiness" meant that once our Sprinter camper

JoeHaulerwithTLR200.jpg~original


was completed, we rarely took the Mog out any more. (And, indeed, it may well be that something like the new 4x4 Sprinter with a rooftop tent on might serve you well enough.)

Also, we've had the experience of having several National Forest trips where, even with diligent searching, we couldn't find a challenging road open. About 95% of the time, we end up going places that were easily doable in a 2WD high clearance vehicle with appropriate tires. I say this to suggest that unless you're "four-wheeling" more than "overlanding," don't give up too much to optimize your trail-running capability. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of places to go with less-than-killer offroad truck.

Nothing more than my opinions, of course. ;)
 

jream2008

Member
Thanks guys. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was looking for! That doesn't mean I don't still *want* a Unicat :)
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
That doesn't mean I don't still *want* a Unicat :)

Well, who wouldn't. :sombrero:

I don't know if you followed the recent sale of the Unicat TC-54 (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/127537), but regardless, the specification sheet

http://www.unimog.net/sales/unicat-tc54/unicat-tc54.pdf

certainly makes for interesting reading. People joke about selling their house to afford a Unicat, but if you had to live out of a truck, something spec'd like this would sure lessen the hardship. Eleven-plus tons to move around, though.

I don't know how long you've been studying this stuff, but probably long enough to conclude, as we all do sooner or later, that there's no perfect overlanding vehicle and the best you'll ever do is pick the one with the fewest numbers of compromises for your specific situation. Best wishes for sorting it out optimally.
 

jream2008

Member
@Mike Hiscox - yes, I did check out the TC-54. Maybe there's a bit of Euro-jealousy here, but I really love the cabover Unicats, and you just don't seem to be able to get anything cabover here except a single cab Isuzu (and pretty under-powered, at that). Those crew cab MANs that you can get over in Europe are SO COOL!

BTW, since I made the first post in this thread, I've been thinking more about the crux of my question, and I came across a term on another part of this forum that I had temporarily forgotten - "stealth camping."

When I think about it, the crux of my question is around stealth camping. For my family of 4, I can accomplish everything we need to do by adding an Adventure Trailer style offroad trailer (http://adventuretrailers.com/trailers/chaser/), or even by adding more storage on top of my roofrack. Those two options would be the most cost-effective, most space-conservative, and would preserve nearly all of my 4x4 ability. What I couldn't do - and for that matter, couldn't do with an XP, or even some of the full 4x4 RVs that have lifting roofs, is stealth camp.

What I really WANT to be doing is pitching a tent at a campsite, either remote or less remote, and enjoying life outdoors. But there are those times when you've been driving all day, or when you can't find a good place to camp (for example, anywhere in the middle of California - in fact, in most states that don't have BLM land), when pulling over and going to sleep inside the RV would be SUPER convenient. But to make the jump to something that sleeps all 4 of us inside, and still has some off-road-ability, is a HUGE jump in cost and storage.

So, let me refine my question to - how often do you find yourself stealth camping, or wishing you could stealth camp? I'm asking all of you more experienced road warriors, since most of my road trips to date have been 2-3 day, well-planned excursions.

Thanks again!

Jason
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
Jason, you've got it right that it's a different world east of the Rockies, where public land is scarce and usually regimented, versus west of the Rockies, where simply getting away from urban areas will often put you on or near public land. We have no problem finding areas where you can park, with no fees, for 14 days before being required to move.

There is an extensive thread on the techniques of and vehicles for stealth camping here:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...rnight-Parking-and-Building-a-Stealth-Vehicle

though there's not a lot of intersection between "stealth," "off-road," and "family of four."

If the stealth approach is important to you, you'll likely want to consider the forthcoming 2015 Mercedes Sprinter 4x4. You can buy it as a cargo van which could be designed to handle four people in a pinch, or as a chassis cab, to which you could add an innocuous box.

The Sprinter would easily pull an adventure trailer should you want to (and you can easily put a roof top tent on the trailer to take care of sleeping two), and the shorter wheelbase crew van would be an excellent setup to travel in and tent camp out of. The van can contain your cooking, eating and hygiene facilities so that bad weather isn't such a hardship when camping, and if you want to be in pure stealth mode, a Sprinter setup will be under the radar while still allowing you to sleep four.

Once you get beyond a relatively stock cargo or box van, the stealth aspects kind of go out the window. Even a modestly built-up Sportsmobile will say "camper" to the neighborhood. On the other hand, if you expect to do the "pull over and sleep" thing rarely, you could think about occasionally tolerating the Walmart/Camping World parking experience in exchange for having a much greater selection of workable vehicles.

Good luck with sorting through all of this.
 

jream2008

Member
"there's not a lot of intersection between "stealth," "off-road," and "family of four."

Touche, Mike, touche

Thanks for all the advice
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Well, maybe this is a silly question but what about just getting a small travel trailer to pull behind your Jeep? Now it's true, you're not going to take a travel trailer over Black Bear Road, but there's no reason you couldn't set up at a camp site near Silverton, spend a few days exploring the area, then hook back up and head off to your next adventure. If you can do a small travel trailer then your options open up considerably.

Wife and I have a teardrop now but we are thinking of moving up to something we can stand up in that is still small enough not to cramp our style. T@B , Casita, Scamp and R-Pod are all in the running. Some of them have elevated ground clearance, but you're not going to take them over a 4x4 road. OTOH, you can get to a lot of great places on well graded dirt, which these types of trailers do fine on.
 

sg1

Adventurer
Hi,
Over the years we have used almost every type of camping setup from lightweight tent on a canoe trip to travel trailer and 4x4 vehicles with roof top tent, converted vans or 4x4 overland vehicles. All these setups have their advantages. It really depends on what kind of trip you want to do and where you travel. In my view the decision whether to use a setup where you sleep in your vehicle only makes sense if you move your camp very often. In this case it is a big convenience if moving is not a big hassle. If you typically stay in one place for a long time sleeping in your vehicle means that every time you want to go somewhere you have to move your house unless you bring an extra set of wheels.
I am not sure what you mean by stealth camping. If you want to camouflage your vehicle enough to be able to sleep in places where this is technically illegal you have quite a challenge for a family of four. In over 35 years of traveling we have never knowingly done that. We always found a legal spot and avoided potential trouble with local law enforcement especially in more exotic countries. If you are thinking about staying in places without camping infrastructure where it is legal to sleep in your vehicle or park your rv then it doesn't matter if your vehicle looks like a camper or whether you use a trailer. All you need is a toilet, a waste water tank and a good lock on your door. We stay in these places very often and never had a problem and we spent about 5 to 6 months per year in our rvs both in North America and other continents.
I hope this helps a little bit and good luck with your choice.
Regards Stefan
 

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