How important is a winch in deep sand conditions?

[uintaangler]

You should carry for soft sand:

If you plan to do just desert trips on soft sand - I suggest to go without an ARB front bar & winch...
-
4x4tripping

Hi 4x4tripping,
I'm curious why you suggest going without the ARB front bumper and winch?
Thanks.

 

[REDrum]

As many have noted above, there are many options to self recovery from sand w/o a winch. My favorite (but can't find on You Tube) is the one of some guys in Dubai effortlessly recovering a truck with 20 meters of rope and big burlap bag. Fill bag with sand to use as anchor, wrap 3 meters of rope around bag and bury 10 meters from truck, wrap other end of rope around tire and slowly touch throttle in reverse gear. Truck will pull it self out--super simple.

On another note, I find it funny how much more is posted about recovery than not getting stuck in the first place. All too often its more about the Indian than the arrow. Two out of the past three people I've recovered from sand both had winches on their trucks and both said they didn't *think* they need to air down since they had a winch.... :roll eyes:

FWIW....Buy, or make, some mats, pick up a small compressor, and get out there and practice getting suck and recovering. Bring a buddy buddy to help learn and recover. Then you'll, both, know what to do if you are stuck in sand without a buddy along.

 

[millerfish]

I agree that a shovel, traction device air air supply are a must. However a winch is always worth having. I use a homemade anchor it works well in soft ground and ok in sand. Also winching off another vehicle will have better results and options than the other vehical pulling you out. In my experience even if you are in sandy areas you will still see mixed terrain if it's in the budget get the winch. You can put together a c02 setup for around $100. Lumber for traction and shovel from HD...

 

[4x4tripping]

Hi 4x4tripping,
I'm curious why you suggest going without the ARB front bumper and winch?
Thanks.

I suggest going without ARB & Winch, because of the weight. But just if you only use the vehicle in the sand.

Look how these guys equip their car, who goes near daily playing in the sand:

They offer wheeling trips at the desert with that cars. No one of these has arb or winch. In the sand you also don't hurt the front or rear - you don't need protection there..

But they all can call for help is they get stuck.

Recently I wrote about our "sand games" in the UAE: http://www.4x4tripping.com/2014/05/vereinigte-arabische-emirate-sandspiele.html#more

If you plan to travel alone… To help yourself - a winch would be handy.

You can also get a winch without a ARB Frontbar like you can see here:

For sand is low weight a big bonus..


4x4tripping

 

[UK4X4]

Sand it's a simple word for many different types and conditions, particle size, compressed, windward and down wind faces.

There is no simple answer........

Pictured above yep UAE, Oman and Qatar all do desert trips with standard landcruiser's and a tea making set.......

They follow and play in basicly the same places where they know the area and it's sand quality s

It's not the same as coral sand, or typical beach sand.

traction matts kinetic tow ropes and pick mattock / shovel.

I prefer the mattock over a shovel as you can pull sand out from under a truck, even rake or hoe would work better to clear a axles and chassis.

Airing down, power and experience .......

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/34684-Wahiba-Challenge-2009?highlight=wahiba
http://s56.photobucket.com/user/POshaughnessy/media/wahiba challenge 2009/slip10.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

 

[86tuning]

Shovel
Air compressor
Tire deflator

I suggest going without ARB & Winch, because of the weight.

If you plan to travel alone… To help yourself - a winch would be handy.

You can also get a winch without a ARB

For sand is low weight a big bonus..

"Simplify, then add lightness."
Colin Chapman

Bigger tires, with tread optimized for sand. Keep the truck as light as possible.

My experience is with 80-series cruisers. Two very similar trucks. Buddy's truck had 33x10.5 and mine had 35x12.5 tires. Both were aired down. He has perhaps 700-1000 lbs more weight in his rig than I have in mine. He has selectable lockers and I have a single rear auto locker.

He would randomly bury his axles when going on flat ground. Mine, when aired down to about 12psi managed to stay on top of the sand unless I was giving it plenty of throttle, at which point I would sometimes bury my axles.

I don't know what pressure he was running, just that he has a York OBA and was aired down. He's on Toyo m55 and I'm on BFG KM/2.

We both had winches and shovels, plus a kinetic recovery strap. He has front and rear bumpers with tire carrier and ladder, etc. plus more camping equipment than I had. My winch has synthetic rope and is mounted inside my stock front bumper.

There's plenty of reasons for a steel bumper, and the only real down sides are weight and cost. Same with a winch. I've used mine plenty of times and would never remove it. Very handy, and at about $600 for an m8000 very reasonably priced. You can hotrod it with a synthetic rope to reduce weight and make it more user friendly. That, plus an aluminum hawse and you'll ditch perhaps 20 lbs off the nose of your truck.

We didn't need any of the recovery gear when playing on the dunes in Florence OR. But I certainly wouldn't leave home without it lol. Kind of like wearing seatbelts. Or helmets when on a motorbike.

Have fun with your build.

 

[mrchips]

Air down your tires into single digits, be cautious on tight turns so you don't roll a tire off the rim.

 

[monte67]

Curious why I never hear anyone mention a Danforth anchor. I boat quite a bit on Lake Powell. A common way to Moore a boat is to simply did an anchor into the beach sand and it will hold a heavy boat in 50 to 60 mom winds with an incredible load given the resistance of a large boat. The people who have huge houseboats do the same thing. A pul pal is just an anchor. A Danforth anchor can be had for $ 30 up. Jus a thought.

 

[n4585k]

Not sure how well these anchors hold in very loose sand...

 

[zelatore]

You aren't going to buy a real Danforth anchor for $30. At least not one big enough for anything more than a dinghy. Maybe you can get one of the knock-offs, but still not anything decently sized.
But to your point, I've occasionally had a similar thought since the pull pall is basically just a plow style anchor that breaks down for storage. Heck, it doesn't even look very robust compared to a decent yacht anchor.
If I were to recommend a marine anchor to try for land use, it would be a Fortress. It's a Danforth style, but made of aluminum so it's lighter and it breaks down for storage. Plus it has 2 adjustable angles for the flukes depending on how hard/soft the bottom is.
I haven't priced the pull-pal, but a Fortress isn't exactly cheap. Several hundred for a decent size one, and you'd want a big one for a truck.
http://fortressanchors.com/

 

[SoCal Tom]

Curious why I never hear anyone mention a Danforth anchor. I boat quite a bit on Lake Powell. A common way to Moore a boat is to simply did an anchor into the beach sand and it will hold a heavy boat in 50 to 60 mom winds with an incredible load given the resistance of a large boat. The people who have huge houseboats do the same thing. A pul pal is just an anchor. A Danforth anchor can be had for $ 30 up. Jus a thought.

I tried a danforth style anchor years ago. The anchor just kept pulling out of the sand rather than digging in like the pull pall. YMMV
Tom

 

[coop74]

Do it the old fashion way, dig big hole and put your spare in it. Tip, use all the cable and spare extensions you have so you don't have to do it three time... Btw don't ask how I know.