How important is a winch in deep sand conditions?

[uintaangler]

I am beginning what will be my first experience with modifying a vehicle ( 2012 4Runner ) for off road adventure
Not that I haven't driven off road before, but I have only cautiously dipped my toe in the water
I am putting a new front bumper on the 4Runner and upgrading the suspension at the same time, due in part to the weight of the new bumper
Will probably buy larger tires since the suspension will be lifted a bit
Rock Sliders
Portable Air compressor
Most of my driving will be in deep sand, sometimes with steep hills thrown into the mix
In an environment with no real trees, should I even mess with a winch on that new ARB bumper?

Thanks.

 

[zelatore]

I would say you'd seldom use it. Is it a good thing to have? Sure - it's just a matter of cost. It might only save your butt one time, or your buddy's butt if you pull him out (though a snatch strap would be a better choice in sand at a much lower price) so what's that worth to you?

You can certainly get by without it, but if you have the budget I would add it. There's very little downside to having one except the added cost. I know nobody is made of money so that call will be up to you.

You listed mods - I would think the single most important thing would be a good set of sand ladders/MaxxTrax/etc, followed by a larger tire you can air down for a bigger footprint, then the air compressor to re-fill those tires for the highway. I don't see the rock sliders being super-important for a sand rig but again they certainly won't hurt anything much like the winch.

 

[aluke0510]

Most areas with a lot of sand have little to winch off of. Hard to find solid rocks with a base suitable for winching off of or more than bushes. So if you do winch in it you will need to dig a big hole to burry the spare tire or use a pull pal. Generally if you are going to be experiencing such terrain the first choice is to jack up the wheels and either fill back in under them or if you have them use sand ladders/traction mats.

Remember in sand weight is your enemy and winches and a pull pal are heavy. The bigger question is with your bumpers how are you planning to be able to lift the tires out when the axle is bottomed? From all I remember seeing the the ARB bumpers are a real pain to get a jack on with all the angles. You'll hate yourself trying to use a sizer or bottle jack when the axle is bottomed because the don't have enough lift length to work going to the frame. So have a look at your bumper choice and see how and where a high lift jack or one of them new fangled hydraulic/pneumatic jacks can lift from. You can always use the attachment to hook on the wheel but remember even then you still need an option to change a tire if needed...

When you say steep hills I am presuming you aren't meaning sand too. Sand can only hold an angle of +/-30 degrees and pretty much only vehicles set up for that can tackle it. If you try to tackle it in an ordinary 4x4 you will need aired down tires and a big run at it; you have to time letting off the gas just right because it is easy to flip it going over the top that and easy to end up sidewise on the way up if you loose momentum and wheels start spinning excessively... Not recommended until you are very experienced with dune driving and a heavy 4x4. And remember at those angles there is no stopping half way up or half way down; if you don't make it up don't fight it and take her back down in a controlled manner to get another run at it. Manuals are easy because you can throw her in reverse to go down backwards. On the other hand autos are easy because they can shift back and forth in drive so smooth and quickly now on the run at it and then on the way up...

BTW. Great choice on the 4-Runner. It is an often overlooked but one of the best new models in my opinion. Excellent payload capacity, good fuel economy (drive further on less fuel weight), reliable, and good aftermarket support.

 

[verdesardog]

In deep sand a hilift with the wheel lift thingy is your good friend, you can get the tires off the ground to put something under them fast and safe......

 

[spencyg]

If I were you, I'd spend my winch money on an on-board air compressor setup (or powertank), and a set of Maxtrax. With those two items you can air your tire pressure way down (without concern of how you'll fill them back up) which will alleviate 90% of the stuck situations. For the last 10%, you'd have the MaxTrax. Unless you're going to carry a Pull-Pal winch anchor for sand extraction, the winch would do you absolutely no good. This is all presuming you've first spent money on a good set of aggressive all-terrain tires.

SG

 

[BlindingWhiteTaco]

MaxTrax or Treds
Shovel
X-Jack
Air compressor
Tire deflator

 

[LR Max]

A winch would be good in sand for recovering another vehicle, especially if said vehicle was in some sort of bad situation and you didn't want to get your truck near them. Put your vehicle in 2wd and in reverse, bury your rear axle. Then winch. Then use 4WD to get out once you are done. Or invest in a 50ft tow rope.

Other than that, I echo what others say. If you do go with some sort of mats, make sure to get about 10ft of string. Tie one end to your mats and the other to the back of your truck. So when you drive away, you unbury the mats and then bring them along with you. That way you don't have to dig them out when you are done nor walk back to get them.

Oh and get a shovel with a long handle. Makes life easier.

As for powertank vs. air compressor, if you have a good local source for C02, then get a powertank. Super easy and versatile. I have a place near the office that refills my 10lb for 10 bucks. However if you don't have that, then get the air compressor and get an awesome one. Like, $300 awesome.

 

[pugslyyy]

Good comments that I don't disagree with.

My personal experience has been

1. Even if you have a winch you can't always use it because there's no good anchor. I've tried all the tricks and had them not work - the only thing that saved me was a pull-pal (which I didn't have the first time I got badly stuck in the middle of a lakebed)

2. Sand mats / max trax / etc are vital. As is the ability to air down, etc.

I would have shovel, max trax, and a compressor before I considered a winch. And if you buy a winch get a pull - pal to go with it.

 

[libarata]

Save on the traction boards by making your own out of dimensional lumber, nuts, and bolts

 

[Camelfilter]

There are also the alternatives to the pull pal, ARB markets one & smitty built has a knock-off (WASP).

Both are pretty compact, the smittybilt weighs around 50lbs. I don't know how much the one ARB markets weighs in at.

I bought the smittybilt version off Craigslist, it's in new/never used condition. I'm hoping to give it a test down at Appalachian Rendezvous this weekend (if the land owners allow).

 

[dlh62c]

MaxTrax or Treds
Shovel
X-Jack
Air compressor
Tire deflator

I would add a wad of cash to the list just in-case the above doesn't work.

There's plenty of videos on YouTube of people stuck in sand.

Not all sand ladders are created equal.

The single best piece of equipment is what's located between your ears; 'Know what your driving into!'

 

[Stumpalump]

A winch are just like lockers in that you either have them or come up with excuses as to why you don't need them. Nothing beats a winch for self recovery. A 8' two by six from lowes cut in half helps in the sand. Bring a sign post from the side of the road and a hand sledge for an ancor point.

 

[4x4tripping]

You should carry for soft sand:
-
Look for a set of Maxtrax (review of severall recovery gear you find here
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And an X-Jack (with Air compressor connection)
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An Air compressor
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- you will be quicker to use your hands on soft sand than a shovel...
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For shure you can too dig in your spare tire, to use the winch.... if you dont have an ground anchor...
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If you plan to do just desert trips on soft sand - I suggest to go without an ARB front bar & winch...
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If you drive through mixed terrain - the winch is handy.. Have used them severall times since I have them.
-
4x4tripping

 

[doug720]

I have always wondered how a boat anchor would work as a 4X4 sand anchor. You can get Munson and many others types that will hold 5,000 and more when just dropped on the ocean floor with a scope of 5/1.

If a person dug a 2' deep hole, placed the anchor in it and did a basically flat pull with the winch, it should work great. These anchors are designed to dig deeper under load and are very strong. To retrieve, you pull straight up and come right out. They cost $100-200 for an appropriate size, are small, weigh about 20 -25 pounds and are stored fairly easy.

Anyone try one before?

Take a look at anchor tests for sand bottoms for some ideas and ratings.

 

[Umtaneum]

Doug, I used to carry a 22 lb. Danforth anchor when I did more 'wheeling in places without trees or big sage brush. It worked like nobodies business, as long as you had enough of a runout area for it to dig itself in properly. Worked better when you dug it into a hole, with a trench for the cable, so it was already partway into the dirt.