Mineshaft air monitors

Mark K

Observer
I am not sure where to put this, so if one of the mods knows of a better area for it, please move it there.

Does anyone use an air monitor when you explore caves or mines?

If so, what device do you use?

So far I do not use anything except experience and instinct.

I would like to extend my explorations to areas which do not necessarily have that wind blowing through them.
 

Rockhounder

Explorer
I am not sure where to put this, so if one of the mods knows of a better area for it, please move it there.

Does anyone use an air monitor when you explore caves or mines?

If so, what device do you use?

So far I do not use anything except experience and instinct.

I would like to extend my explorations to areas which do not necessarily have that wind blowing through them.

There are air quality alarm monitors out there, ebay carries occasionally. If you do not have an oxygen level sensor, you need another form, old school always works (light a small sterno in a wire carry basket, but you have to really watch the flame level, and the instant you see the flame get brighter (yellow) this signals incomplete combustion as evidenced by the yellowing flame). Unfortunately this does not help for other gasses which even though there is plenty of oxygen, will knock you out flat, including carbon dioxide/monoxide, which is odorless. Others such as the methates are more easily identifiable by smell.

If you must go in, and have no way to ascertain the air quality, then look along the tunnel/diggings floor edges next to walls for mouse/rt droppings, and other related debris/nesting materials, or footprints. Generally in any abandoned cave system, you will see plenty of evidence, as it accumulates over the years. If you see any dead and not consumed corpses, get out of there fast, no matter how old and dessicated they look to be, as that signals that at least along the floor, where those heavier deadly gasses accumulate, there is constant prevention of any scavengers being able to make it in to consume dead animal corpses.
 
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Arclight

SAR guy
I am not sure where to put this, so if one of the mods knows of a better area for it, please move it there.

Does anyone use an air monitor when you explore caves or mines?

If so, what device do you use?

So far I do not use anything except experience and instinct.

I would like to extend my explorations to areas which do not necessarily have that wind blowing through them.

Mark,

The standard for this sort of thing is a portable 4-gas monitor. They usually measure O2, Carbon Monoxide, Hydrogen Sulfide and LEL (Lower Explosive limit, i.e. methane and other flammable gases.) The need for air quality monitoring varies with the geology, whether the mine has water and/or decaying organic matter, and what was being mined.

Expect to spend $400-800 on a good unit like this one from RKI:
http://www.rkiinstruments.com/pages/gx2009.htm

Or the Altair from MSA:
http://us.msasafety.com/Portable-Ga...eg;-4X-Multigas-Detector/p/000080001600001022

You will also want to budget some money for a sensor replacement every 1-3 years and calibration. PM me if you'd like more info. I'm on a team that does underground search and rescue in San Bernardino County.

Cheers,

Arclight
 

UK4X4

Expedition Leader
Canary !

Lighted candle, ,,,error. .....methane or any other natural gas will simply explode while your looking for the yellowing flame !

Going deep into mines, ie out of sight of the entrance or draft of the entrance unknown mine system, get a gas detector.

Pretty sure you value your life higher than 400 usd !

Some mines played out or became uneconomic to run, others punched through to water or gas and the miners died.

H2s Is a killer, first you smell it, then it destroys your sence of smell and then you,ll be needing a pine box


Do your home work, wear the correct gear and enjoy the exploration safely !

Oh and send pics or it didn't happen !
 
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Mark K

Observer
So far I have never been to one where there was not clear evidence that there was little gas danger. I think that at this point in time I will just have to stay more towards the open end or pass up any that are questionable.

As for pics, this little ************ almost got me in the face underground.
2011 May AZ trip 197.jpg

And this is how it ended up with as aggressive and pursuit happy as it was.

2011 May AZ trip 198.jpg
 

Arclight

SAR guy
Mark,

Are these gold or other hardrock mines? What state?

I'm a caver and have also been in hundreds of mines through SAR and other exploring. I have encountered air quality problems a few times, such as:

1. When there was evidence of a fire. Look out for burned/non-existent timbers, blackened ceiling and ash that looks almost like fuzzy mold. Mine fires are bad news, and mean there is likely carbon monoxide. A hot fire in a metal mine can also reduce the suflides in the ore and release H2S.

2. Freshly opened tunnels or sumps. We drained a sump in the back of a cave in Belize that had been created by a dam of built-up debris. When we came back to survey it 2 days later, there was not sufficient oxygen in the passage it exposed. The same thing can happen if you uncover an adit that has been blocked by a cave in or closure.

3. Wet areas - rotting timbers and organic matter can deplete the oxygen and also generate methane.

4. Sumps - Never dive under a sump and try to come out the other side. The air is almost never breathable. Two kids died in SoCal trying this about 10 years ago. Check out:

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/25/local/me-hikers25

Anyway, I may have more specific advice if you can share some details.

Arclight
 

Mark K

Observer
MT, ID, and AZ.

I never go in water. Water hides stuff really well like 1,000 foot deep shafts. Plus, like you said, water makes gas and stink. I have no sense of smell (right now) so I need to avoid water.
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Mark, where have you been exploring in MT? I've been up that way a few times this year in the Butte and Helena areas, we've visited a few dozen neat mines. Good stuff.
 

Arclight

SAR guy
Fyreman,

That's an awesome unit! Do you find the VOC sensor useful? We had a situation were there was spilled gasoline in a mine we had to search, and we relied on the LEL rading. Would the VOC have been helpful?

Mark: In regards to the areas you explore, I would say that the hard rock mines of Arizona are probably safer than many of those in Idaho or Montana, as they tend to be dry and don't have a freeze/thaw cycle that starts to degrade the entrances as much. In Montana, you have coal. In a coal area, I would explore the townsite and ruins but probably skip going into the mines. Even working coal mines have a lot of problems, and they tend to immediately seal off abandoned levels in working coal mines.

One thing I would recommend you invest in is a half-face P100-rated respirator. This will reduce your risk from Hanta Virus, asbestos and Silica dust. I like the MSA Comfo fit II (look on eBay). They also sell similar ones at most hardware stores.

Arclight
 
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Mark K

Observer
Mark, where have you been exploring in MT? I've been up that way a few times this year in the Butte and Helena areas, we've visited a few dozen neat mines. Good stuff.

Almost the entire state. Ive been everywhere.
map 1 unedited.jpg

I have been to almost all of these places.
 

Fyreman

Observer
It's good and bad. Good in the fact that it identifies that "something" is there... bad because I then need to find out what it is. Most lamps are a 10.6 ev. It's limited because the voc's ion potential needs to be less then 10.6 or it doesn't register. ^^^SORRY nerd stuff^^^
 

Mark K

Observer
Fyreman,

That's an awesome unit! Do you find the VOC sensor useful? We had a situation were there was spilled gasoline in a mine we had to search, and we relied on the LEL rading. Would the VOC have been helpful?

Mark: In regards to the areas you explore, I would say that the hard rock mines of Arizona are probably safer than many of those in Idaho or Montana, as they tend to be dry and don't have a freeze/thaw cycle that starts to degrade the entrances as much. In Montana, you have coal. In a coal area, I would explore the townsite and ruins but probably skip going into the mines. Even working coal mines have a lot of problems, and they tend to immediately seal off abandoned levels in working coal mines.

One thing I would recommend you invest in is a half-face P100-rated respirator. This will reduce your risk from Hanta Virus, asbestos and Silica dust. I like the MSA Comfo fit II (look on eBay). They also sell similar ones at most hardware stores.

Arclight

Most of the mines I get into are in AZ. Off hand I can only think of one mine in ID I can get into. This one is a fluorite mine. The view is spectacular but taking pics is close to impossible.
 

Joanne

Adventurer
I'm an active mine explorer as well. A couple of the guys that explore with from time to time use four gas monitors. They have never alerted in the times that we have explored together. That said, I've heard stories that they have triggered a few times on low O2. The majority of mines that I have visited here in the desert southwest "breath" pretty well. We often clap our dusty gloves together to watch the air flow. It's usually a good clue as to whether the drift or stope has a connection to the outside.

DelamarTP_003a.jpg


Lots of pictures at my website: http://www.mine-explorer.com

Be safe!

Joanne
 

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