Ford van questions. 460 vs the 7.3 idi

why3zx

Observer
Anyone around here know the IDI ford 7.3 non turbos very well?

I currently have a 91 EFI 460 in a E350 (Airstream B190) 75,xxx K miles, A4OD trans. 2WD for now with a 4WD conversion on the short list.

I have a chance to buy a 91 E350 ambo (a single rear wheel with a high top, think of it kind of like a class B ambo) that is almost identical van wise to my van, however it has a non turbo 7.3 idi navistar diesel with a A4OD behind it, and only 39K miles! and its cheap, like 4k cheap.

It seems like a no brainer to buy the ambo, swap powertrains, and re-sell the ambo. However I know very little about ford diesels, and fords for that matter. Anybody have any insight on the 7.3idi vs the 460 question? All I know are cummins engines. This van is the first ford I have ever owned. I can do all the work myself, that wont be a factor in the cost, and I kind of need a winter project anyway. Identical donor vehicles always make for an easy swap.

So what says Expo?
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
I run a 6.9L Navistar (International) IDI in my camper van which is nearly identical to the 7.3L. My rig is also non-turbo, so I can speak to this pretty well. The swap would be a wrenching nightmare, but the end result would be worth it. I don't know what you get for mileage right now, but my rig loaded to the hilt, rolling on 33" all terrains gets a consistent 10-11 MPG. I have a C6 transmission so I don't have the benefit of overdrive, and my RPM is around 2550 @ 65 MPH with 3.55 axle gears. Normally aspirated diesels aren't as efficient as turbo diesels, so adding a turbo later on (Hypermax makes a kit for ~$2k) could give you some additional range. The 6.9 and 7.3L IDI n/a diesels don't make a ton of HP (~190 at the flywheel I think), but the torque is good and moving a heavy van down the road has proven to be an easy chore in my case. Do some research on early 7.3L IDI engines, specifically "block worm". The E4OD transmission also has a colorful reputation, so you might want to touch up on those as well, especially as they apply to diesel powerplants. Looks like your B190 is pretty darn clean and would likely be a good candidate for such a swap. If you want to see "down and dirty" pictures of how ugly the engine extraction process is on this series of Econoline, check out my build thread.

SG
 

86scotty

Cynic
Just curious why it would be worth it to do all that work? The 460 is a bulletproof engine and yours has pretty low miles. Sounds like you'll get about the same MPG with the diesel and diesel is higher. My 460 is plenty strong and as I read everyday about the maintenance of diesels I'm pretty happy with mine, even though it is older technology, etc.
 

ujoint

Supporting Sponsor
I converted an IDI van years ago and planned for a power dissapointment. But, I was wrong! It drove great and I was really surprised by the power.
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
1) I'd test drive the Ambo to see if you like the way it performs... You're looking at two engine swaps to pull off your plan. It'd be a tremendous amount of work to end up with a naturally aspirated 7.3.

2) fuel economy will likely not offset the cost in time & money.

3) I'd hold out for a 7.3 PSD with the 4WD T-Case, Axle, and Trans all in one package if it were possible. I've seen 4WD PSD trucks with asking prices of $2500, and one donor vehicle would save you a ton of money... Not having to resell your parts vehicle, a ton of time.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
I wouldn't bother unless I was going to convert to diesel appliances to eliminate propane. And I wouldn't do that unless I was planning to travel to places where propane is hard to find.

Do you have the generator under the seat on the port side? If so, how will you deal with that? Propane conversion?

Personally, I'd keep the gas engine and gas generator and propane stove and water heater - then spend the money swapping out the fridge for an ac/dc with compressor and swapping out the oversized electric and propane pig furnace for a Propex.
 

why3zx

Observer
See if this guy is still selling this:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...le-1989-Ford-Camper-Van-7-3-IDI-Hypermax-E4od
$2000.
Everything is ready to go! Put the saved money into a 4x4 conversion.

Shame this wasnt for sale 4 months ago when I bought mine, would have picked this up in a heartbeat, especially due to the fact that it is only 2hrs drive from me. However my wife and I have a large chunk of time and money already into this van on a full interior remodel. Someone should really nab this van!

I was initally planning on waiting for a PSD donor truck, however this is so appealing to me due to the low miles, and the identical donor vehicle. However I do realize that time saved re-selling the swap vehicle would most likely make that a moot point.

Spencyg; Thanks for the comment, I have spent a good ammount of time in your build thread, even before I bought this current van, Boomer has basically been the insperation for this project even before its inception. Interested to hear the details of exactly what made the R&R on the engine such a pain, other than the fact that it is cramped van engine compartment.

dwh; I do not have the stock Onan genny built in, I have a large solar system and in the event that I want to run the microwave or the AC I use an outboard genny. I have replaced the fridge already and am looking for an option to replace the current furnace, however with the solar setup and the battery bank the currect setup has worked very well so far. Boondocked for 18 days during elk season and all I had to do was change out one propane cylinder (have a remote setup as well as the onboard).

Main reason for even looking into this swap would be to make this van drive a little better through the mountain passes with my boat or trailer. However looking into it the gasser actually has a bit more power, although I suspect that the diesel has use of the torque curve at a much lower RPM. Spence, how does boomer pull a mt pass? This van is lucky to be able to push 45mph over any kind of grade, and that is pushing it in 2nd.

Second reason would be MPG, I get a pretty consistant 10-11 right now, And I suspect with the OD tranny and the 3.55 rear that with the oil mill that would improve.

Also, I just found out that the donor ambo will not shift into 4th gear, which means that the price just got a lot lower, however really need to do some reading on the cause. I suspect that with the A4OD and the electric overdrive that it is a sensor issue. Sorry for the ramble, and thanks for the replys!
 

seanpistol

Explorer
Used IDI turbos seems a lot more common now that when I had one. Saw a truck for sale here in Utah recently for $800 with a blown tranny, but had an ATS turbo on it, intercooler, and Dana 60 front end...
 

89s rule

Adventurer
39k miles in an ambo is probably more like 150k if you factor in idle time. I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle or the $$. However as we all know it's what you want and need. That's what makes this forum fun as we have some on a tight budget who have to be creative and shop accordingly (like myself) and others who just pay for a fully loaded SMB, etc.
 

bonecraft

New member
I had a 7.3 idi in an 88 f250 it was great. I hauled all kinds of stuff. got 16 or 17 on the highway with a 5spd manual
 

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