Tire setup for winter adventure LR3

Jwestpro

Explorer
The intended purpose of the truck is to be as good as possible in snowy/icy/wintery conditions, but also have the capability to get off the pavement and do some adventuring. I am a student in Colorado, do a good deal of backcountry skiing, and this is to be my go-everywhere/handle-everything mountain truck

You stated this yet it sounds like you are jumping on the bandwagon or are going for looks more than true function.

The minute you want to be playing off road and end up putting 50% of the vehicle weight onto two tires you have pushed a non E rated tire to near or past it's intended design. Why not be safe and stick with sizes available in E load rating? Additionally, these tires should last long enough you may very well end up with more weight in the vehicle during their effective life span in a few years.

If I had to choose an SL Duratrac vs an E BFG AT KO (1), then it would be the BFG no question.

You also said "as good as possible in winter". That is not the Duratrac. It should be "fine" but definitely not "as good as possible". So either what you said is irrelevant and you have changed your mind or you are caving in to the popularity of the Goodyear. The large blocks on the Duratrac are not going to be the "best" in winter. The compound itself is definitely not either. People in Canada run the Rotiva and love it. Like the Nokian WRG2 and similar, they will also wear well in the summer.

However, if you can manage it, you sound like a perfect candidate for 2 sets of wheels. Many people with these rarely get much winter travel so an AT will be fine with the rare trip into snow. You, however, plan to be in it for large durations of the season. Get snows for winter or at least something like the Rotiva.
 

jckstein

Observer
You stated this yet it sounds like you are jumping on the bandwagon or are going for looks more than true function.

The minute you want to be playing off road and end up putting 50% of the vehicle weight onto two tires you have pushed a non E rated tire to near or past it's intended design. Why not be safe and stick with sizes available in E load rating? Additionally, these tires should last long enough you may very well end up with more weight in the vehicle during their effective life span in a few years.

If I had to choose an SL Duratrac vs an E BFG AT KO (1), then it would be the BFG no question.

You also said "as good as possible in winter". That is not the Duratrac. It should be "fine" but definitely not "as good as possible". So either what you said is irrelevant and you have changed your mind or you are caving in to the popularity of the Goodyear. The large blocks on the Duratrac are not going to be the "best" in winter. The compound itself is definitely not either. People in Canada run the Rotiva and love it. Like the Nokian WRG2 and similar, they will also wear well in the summer.

However, if you can manage it, you sound like a perfect candidate for 2 sets of wheels. Many people with these rarely get much winter travel so an AT will be fine with the rare trip into snow. You, however, plan to be in it for large durations of the season. Get snows for winter or at least something like the Rotiva.

Yes, it may seem as if my desire has jumped around a bit. My intention of finding the 'best' possible winter tire has started to change when I thought about colorado weather, and how more often than not I will be on dry roads. Admittedly, I am new to the offroad scene, so I didn't immediately think about two wheel situations. I suppose I may have to re-think this a little bit, or step up to a LT Duratrac and install rods.

I dont have any intention of running two sets of tires on this car though. I have enough tires floating around right now between this car and the M, so at this point its just not logical.

All in all, i'm not sure how much actual "off-roading" (as the way you see it) i'll be doing, but it also seems silly to buy an AT tire that isn't really ready to go everywhere.
 
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Jwestpro

Explorer
I suppose I may have to re-think this a little bit, or step up to a LT Duratrac and install rods.
.

Rods are a waste of $ and also ad in new problems such as running too tall full time and camber issues which all effect handling, safety, fuel economy, etc. Spend $400 on the IIDtool which will also save you in certain situations where the rods may actually cause you to be more stuck due to "out of range" codes and such.

With the IIDtool you not only gain all the height, and more, than the rods provide but also have the ability to lower more for a garage or highway fuel economy and increased curvy road handling.
 

jckstein

Observer
Rods are a waste of $ and also ad in new problems such as running too tall full time and camber issues which all effect handling, safety, fuel economy, etc. Spend $400 on the IIDtool which will also save you in certain situations where the rods may actually cause you to be more stuck due to "out of range" codes and such.

With the IIDtool you not only gain all the height, and more, than the rods provide but also have the ability to lower more for a garage or highway fuel economy and increased curvy road handling.

Thats another option. Maybe you can answer a few questions of mine then.

With the IIDtool, can i program a new height for each of the three modes individually, or do i just program an overall height for each mode to increase by similar to the rods. Does this really solve a problem though? If I run a tire that needs extra clearance, whats the difference between driving elevated through rods or through an IIDtool? Shouldn't the same adverse effects from taller ride height both come into play?

Thanks
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
First, the electronic tool allows fine tuning exactly what is desired and changing as per conditions may warrant. First of all, you don't NEED the larger tires in the first place. Go with any number of E range 31.5" tires and you'll be perfectly fine for years. No rubbing and room to spare for a snow chain depending on the style (more on that later if desired)

By simply wanting the Duratrac and it's limited sizing, you are stuffing yourself into an area with compromises such as lower load range (fine for general uses) or too large for factory clearances.

For what it sounds like you'll be doing, even the current BFG AT Ko is perfect and in a perfect size requiring none of the above complications. Consider how awesome it would be to have room left for a snow chain? The Duratrac in 275/65x18 will NOT allow that. Furthermore, the rod mod or even the IIDtool are not the end of that equation. Ideally you would also have the fender liner altered in the rear and the steel cut back in the front for TRUE clearance. These are areas that WILL come in contact regardless of the rods or permanent lift. This is because the moment you compress the suspension into the wheel well, or make a 70% lock turn, the larger tire will rub without the alterations.

So, want to enter the rabbit hole or keep it simple, reliable, and also cheaper. Going above 31.5" is a committed path involving more changes than most people will actually utilize often enough to be 100% necessary.

Did you know that you can induce a higher factory lift mode by simply faking it being grounded? Just place a jack stand under the sill or jacking point, lower onto it, as if it were a log/stump, and you'll see the computer think it needs to raise itself into "super extended" height not available just by pressing the levers. Driving too fast in this mode will cause it to lower, but you shouldn't be driving faster than that anyway at such height as there is nearly zero suspension down travel remaining.

Keep in mind, there are limits with this suspension such that when the height is maxed out, the traction usually available by keeping all 4 tires touching will be lost if not on level ground.

So, rods give you no options to role any differently unless you want to get in there swapping them out all the time... not me, annoying and just ads more chance to damaging the delicate parts it mounts to. Larger tires than 31.5" only work well if in conjunction with other alterations to the vehicle for clearance purposes.

Just get some version of a 265/65x18 and you'll really just not need to think about this again for 60,000 miles.

About the chains, a true wrap around chain will require more clearance such that it would fit on stock wheel if tire were narrower than the 265 or it will fit on a 265/65x18 with spacers behind stock wheel. When adding spacers though, the turning clearance will come up tight at full lock.

Rear wheel well clearance will be an issue if you were trying to trail ride using the chains with articulation going on but on forest roads or the highway in deep snow, it would be pretty much flat all the time anyway.

There are some types of snow traction devices which do not wrap behind the tire such that you could not need spacers. These are generally easier to put on but are also just for roadways, not offroad.

Being in Colorado, you should look into one of Bill Burkes outings during winter.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
Oh, about the IIDtool workings. First, it is also for reading "CEL" codes on the dash, and clearing them. It's always nice to know if the code is "important" or can wait. For the EAS settings, there are 3 saved spots open. So you could choose something like a -25mm in "1" for super dropped garage parking if needed, -10mm for twisty mountain roads in "2", and +50mm for hitting the trails.

You could set them however works for your plans. If running a slightly larger tire, you could even have the middle one be just enough for all general driving while retaining the lowest safe height, maybe +20mm and save the +50mm for road when actual wheel articulations warrant more clearance.

You have to be stopped to choose these but it honestly takes about 30 seconds for me to choose one after being stopped. You access the tool through the cruise control buttons and it's pretty simple. The more expensive version now has bluetooth and some neato features to see on an ipad but I haven't bothered with that one.

This IIDtool is even just good to have set up for all it's other uses aside from the EAS control. To set up EAS though yes, you just have the vehicle in standard height, adjust all to +/- your choice, then "save" into 1,2,or 3 slot. There is a choice later for "reverting to factory" so you can always start over if needed.

You can also use the tool for things like turning off the rain sensing for the wipers. I did this because it never failed that the system wanted to wipe sooner than needed which I find annoying sometimes. It also removed any function of the old school twist dial for the wiper delay rate. Now the delay is selected by me ;)
 

zelatore

Explorer
JWest, I originally was going to do just what you suggested by running just the IId tool but I found I couldn't get very much lift with it. It's been a while so I forget the amount I could do but I want to say 35mm was the max I could do without sending a sensor out of range. It seems to vary from truck to truck. Scott B. found this as well on the Portal LR4 build. Like him, I ended up running both rods AND the tool, which truly gives me all the control I need.

You are right though about tire size. It sounds like the OP doesn't need the 32" Duratracs (275/65-18) for his use, and they will rub without some clearancing work. We've discussed the amount of work before; while I didn't find it all that bad I can certainly see that some people would.

I think you're in WA, correct? Next year (June?) a group of us from NorCal are going to run the OR BCDR. I'd love to see you come south and meet up with us!
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
Would be cool to meet you all for the BCDR. Just OR? I've been thinking about doing some of WA on my dual sport bike but I usually like to bring along too much stuff for that ;)

I don't recall my tests for max added height. However, I then added the LLAMS interface which is really the coolest thing ever in EAS for the modern Land Rovers. I think I used it in combo with the IIDtool for a total +70 or so. I had 14 or 15" measured under my front engine Rasta plate but of course at that height not much left in suspension down travel.

I do remember that the order you do the lifting matters. For example, for lowest garage crawl setting, I 1st lock the factory lever in "access", then I use the LLAMS to drop another -20mm on top of whatever I had the IIDtool set on, I think about -10 was about all I could get out of it to sit right on the bump stops without the computer trying to automatically raise up.

For maximum, you might have a better result by setting factory lever highest first, then go into the IIDtool to choose a +. Maybe start with +20 which should be fine, then try +40, then +50. You can also obviously ad 10mm at a time keeping track of where you are with it.
 

axels

Adventurer
The DuraTrac do have extreme siping and are meant to be used in severe conditions (winter, snow and ice). They will never be equal to a great winter tire but they will do just fine in Colorado. As far as E rated tires, I'm always surprised to read how important they are. After all the years spent by LR on R&D, I would assume that they know what they are doing picking passenger load rated tires on such heavy vehicles (I've met with a couple of their test drivers and they really put these through their paces).
If you were to pick the Duratrac in 265/65R18, you should rest assured that the rubbing will be minimal with no lift and should not be an inconvenience.
You can go either direction as I do not have any stakes in either tire manufacturer ;)
 

jckstein

Observer
The DuraTrac do have extreme siping and are meant to be used in severe conditions (winter, snow and ice). They will never be equal to a great winter tire but they will do just fine in Colorado. As far as E rated tires, I'm always surprised to read how important they are. After all the years spent by LR on R&D, I would assume that they know what they are doing picking passenger load rated tires on such heavy vehicles (I've met with a couple of their test drivers and they really put these through their paces).
If you were to pick the Duratrac in 265/65R18, you should rest assured that the rubbing will be minimal with no lift and should not be an inconvenience.
You can go either direction as I do not have any stakes in either tire manufacturer ;)

I understand where you come from. Its just a risky road to go down, especially since no one currently running a P rated Duratrac has come forward and said that there were no issues.
 

axels

Adventurer
I've had no issues with mine. Did Vermont, New Mexico and Moab. Sand, mud and sharp rocks.
So far so good. I really like them on and off road.
 

jckstein

Observer
I've had no issues with mine. Did Vermont, New Mexico and Moab. Sand, mud and sharp rocks.
So far so good. I really like them on and off road.

Ahhh, there we go. Some first hand experience haha. I will take that into consideration!
 

Eniam17

Adventurer
I understand where you come from. Its just a risky road to go down, especially since no one currently running a P rated Duratrac has come forward and said that there were no issues.

I would ask the opposite; find someone who has experienced a tire failure ONLY because they were running a non load range E tire on D3/4. While the theory of it makes sense, I have yet to have any issues or see anyone in any of my off road experiences have issues. I haven't seen many, if any, mentioning tire failures from p rated tires on the forums either.
 

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