ARB Bull Bar modifications

TJVach

Observer
Hey what's going on folks. I have a quick question about the ARB Front Bull Bar/Winch Bumper for a Jeep Wrangler TJ. I know that it is very well made and every little aspect of it is engineered to very high standards, but here is my question.

Is it possible to alter the bumper without sacrificing strength? I would like to mount two 4" fog lights in the actual bumper to allow me to have some lightforce 170's in the regular mounting location and then the 4" fogs as well. Resulting in a 4" hole in the bumper. You might call this overkill, but I'm addicted to lights :).

Also I have heard from a number of sources that you can't use the shackle mounts for a "snatch" type recovery. Is this true from your experiences? Thanks a ton!
 

TJVach

Observer
Picture

Here is a picture of the bumper for those who are not familiar. I'd like to put the lights roughly where the ARB sticker is on the left hand side and the same location on the right.

**Note this is not my truck, just using for identifying purposes :)
 

whowey

New member
The ARB for the new Toyota P/U's have the light mounts in the bumper. Last months ORA had some pictures of it.

I never trusted those mounts for a really bad snatch recovery.. Thet are little more than 1/16th steel tabs with washers welded to either side of the tab...

This was on a Cherokee rather than the heavier Wranglers...
 

madizell

Explorer
If there is clearance behind the panel you want to cut for the 4" hole, you should be able to do what you want, and if you are worried about strength in that area, you can reinforce the perimeter of the cut, for example with some 1/8 thick strap 1/2 or 3/4 inch wide bent into a circle and welded around the cut on the outside.

Don't have any reason to think you can't snatch from the recovery point, but I would inspect the bumper behind the attach point to see what it is attached to and how thick the bumper wall is. If the tab is simply welded to the bumper skin (even if welded from behind) and the skin is around 1/8 inch, that won't take a lot of abuse. If the skin is 3/16 and the area behind is well supported and close to the frame attach points, it should be okay.
 

Ireland

Adventurer
TJVach said:
Hey what's going on folks. I have a quick question about the ARB Front Bull Bar/Winch Bumper for a Jeep Wrangler TJ. I know that it is very well made and every little aspect of it is engineered to very high standards, but here is my question.

Is it possible to alter the bumper without sacrificing strength? I would like to mount two 4" fog lights in the actual bumper to allow me to have some lightforce 170's in the regular mounting location and then the 4" fogs as well. Resulting in a 4" hole in the bumper. You might call this overkill, but I'm addicted to lights :).

Also I have heard from a number of sources that you can't use the shackle mounts for a "snatch" type recovery. Is this true from your experiences? Thanks a ton!
I cannot see the holes for the new lights being a huge problem so long as you properly reinforce the surrounding area with gussets and such.
I have used the shackle mounts for snatch pulls on two occasions but i would recommend you don't do this sideways as the metal in this area is designed for forward pulling with say up to a 45 degree angle from the front...
To me this is one of the only weak points with the ARB bumpers as I feel they could have made this area a fair bit beefier without much added weight.
A small problem with an otherwise great product...
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
What do you guys think about bolting shackle mounting brackets to the front face of these bumpers? I'm not sure how thick the steel is, but I'm even more concerned about the crush cans getting "stretched"?

It would be easy to bolt a wide 1/4" reinforcing plate behind the bumper skin. The bracket would be pulling on the plate more than the bumper skin.

So that just leaves the crush can problem.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Bull bars gain their strength from all the folds and bends, so the large flat areas don't carry a lot of their strength. Cutting a hole in that flat area should have relatively minimal impact as long as you don't go crazy and make it swiss cheese. I'd try and stay away from any corners or folds by a couple of inches, though.

As far as bolting on shackle mounts. You need to reinforce the mount with a plate on the back, otherwise the bolts will tear through. But adding, say, a 1/4" or 5/16" plate on the back of the bumper and you should be fine.

My ARB does not use them, but I've heard that the crush cans are designed to take a fairly significant load. My understanding is that they are supposed to be able to take twice the expected winch size, so typically about 16,000 lbs. The thinking is that a doubled winch line with a bogged vehicle will be the highest working load. I don't know if that means they will not fail at that load or that they will not distort. From the sound of it, they do tend to distort sometimes?
 

adventureduo

Dave Druck [KI6LBB]
We have this mounted to our ARB bullbar from Expedition Exchange. I'll be perfectly honest with you, haven't tugged on it yet. However i have tugged on a buddies with the same exact setup on his ARB and it worked flawlessly. They're rated for 3 tons each.

I mounted a single on the bumper for using a pulley system.



DSC05441.jpg


My buddy mounted two in the face section of the bumper, see the rig on the right.



Note: The eyelits on the ARB bullbar ARE NOT FOR D-SHACKLES! I just had them hanging there on my rig that day.

We also mounted the fold out industrial step to get in the engine bay easier.
 
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R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Socal, is your buddies bumper an airbag bumper? Apparently that makes a difference.

Are the winches mounted outboard of the crushcans, or inboard more on the frame? From looking at this picture, I assumed they're mounted to the frame in the large black box.

BULLBAR-H.jpg


That made me wonder if the crush cans were even designed for the winch load.

Another idea I had was to make a stout pull tab bar out of 1/2" plate or something, cut a slot in the front of the bumper, and these tab bars would run back through the middle of the crush cans and bolt through the chassis bolts inside the chassis rails. But I'm not sure, I think there may be tubes inside those frame ends to prevent the bolts from crushing the frame tube when tightened?
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
SOCALFJ said:
We have this mounted to our ARB bullbar from Expedition Exchange. I'll be perfectly honest with you, haven't tugged on it yet. However i have tugged on a buddies with the same exact setup on his ARB and it worked flawlessly. They're rated for 3 tons each.
Just as an FYI, while the bracket is 3-ton rated, that does NOT mean the recovery point is really a 3 ton point. It's possible that the mount pulls or tears the ARB sheet metal before that, although that is pretty unlikely. Just wanted to point out that the only thing guaranteed to be 3 tons is the bracket itself, not the whole system necessarily. In reality the whole system will handle more than 3 tons, but depending on how the bracket is mounted it's certainly possible that it not handle 3-tons (like if you don't use the backing plate).
Note: The eyelits on the ARB bullbar ARE NOT FOR D-SHACKLES! I just had them hanging there on my rig that day.
The eyes on the ARB are supposed to be for two things, as a place for the winch hook when doubling back the line and as a mount for a Hi-Lift adapter. They are supposed to be safe to use for recovery, but like most everyone knows they do bend easily.

Edit: I forgot to mention that a lot of people do hang D-shackles in the holes to keep the tabs from being crushed flat. If you beat them silly and they are folded over, then say you need to put your Hi-Lift adapter in them, you'll be in a world of hurt potentially. So by leaving shackles hanging in them, they tend to not get quite as smashed up and you can still manage to use them in a pinch.
 
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adventureduo

Dave Druck [KI6LBB]
R_Lefebvre said:
Socal, is your buddies bumper an airbag bumper? Apparently that makes a difference.

Not that im aware of. Cant remember what year his lexus is.

As far as lifting the eyelits are for that.

t_17695.jpg



DaveInDenver said:
Just as an FYI, while the bracket is 3-ton rated, that does NOT mean the recovery point is really a 3 ton point. It's possible that the mount pulls or tears the ARB sheet metal before that, although that is pretty unlikely. Just wanted to point out that the only thing guaranteed to be 3 tons is the bracket itself, not the whole system necessarily. In reality the whole system will handle more than 3 tons, but depending on how the bracket is mounted it's certainly possible that it not handle 3-tons (like if you don't use the backing plate).

Of course, just cause it says 3 ton doesnt mean you can attach it to a plastic bumper. Yep.

DaveInDenver said:
The eyes on the ARB are supposed to be for two things, as a place for the winch hook when doubling back the line and as a mount for a Hi-Lift adapter. They are supposed to be safe to use for recovery, but like most everyone knows they do bend easily.

I've used them for recovery as well. Some have mangled them up doing so. I've never had a problem winching or being pulled off them even at the Hammers in Ca. But, I've also heard 50 different opinions on this, even from ARB. I'll leave this one be.. because we could start a new thread on this and go for days about it.
 
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DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
SOCALFJ said:
I've used them for recovery as well. Some have mangled them up doing so. I've never had a problem winching or being pulled off them even at the Hammers in Ca. But, I've also heard 50 different opinions on this, even from ARB. I'll leave this one be.. because we could start a new thread on this and go for days about it.
True. I asked Chris from ARB when he was down talking to our club. That was the feeling I got, not supposed to be for recovery but it's safe to do so. On my bumper they put holes to bolt the stock hooks back on and that's where you are supposed to hook a strap to. But I've had to use mine for rigging a pull a couple of times and the Earth didn't stop spinning when I did.
 

MuddyMudskipper

Camp Ninja
R_Lefebvre said:
Socal, is your buddies bumper an airbag bumper? Apparently that makes a difference.

Are the winches mounted outboard of the crushcans, or inboard more on the frame? From looking at this picture, I assumed they're mounted to the frame in the large black box.

BULLBAR-H.jpg

The Bull Bar you see in the picture is of the airbag bumper for the Discovery Series I which I used to have. For this model the winch is mounted to the black tray upside down which is then mounted to the frame using the crush can to frame bolts. The mounting of the winch and where the control box mounts is different with the non-airbag models. Where and how the winch mounts likely varies from your photo for other vehicles.


R_Lefebvre said:
That made me wonder if the crush cans were even designed for the winch load.

Technically the winch is mounted between the frame horns which is wholly independent of the crush cans other than sharing the bolts. The movement and subsequent tweaking from winching happened because the holes in the crush cans are slotted to allow for adjustment during fitting of the bumper. It is the slotted holes in the crush cans that allowed my bumper to be pulled down or up when winching because the load (up or down) was at the fairlead.

R_Lefebvre said:
Another idea I had was to make a stout pull tab bar out of 1/2" plate or something, cut a slot in the front of the bumper, and these tab bars would run back through the middle of the crush cans and bolt through the chassis bolts inside the chassis rails. But I'm not sure, I think there may be tubes inside those frame ends to prevent the bolts from crushing the frame tube when tightened?

There are no tubes inside the frame that prevent it from being crushed when bolted. I know this because my frame got a little crushed in an effort to crank the bolts down to prevent movement. You also still can't run any support through the frame as a recovery point anchor because the ends of your D2's frame horns are boxed.

R_Lefebvre said:
And what about lifting under these things?

I've Hi-Lifted and been tugged from the front jacking point and it worked fine. The one thing that I was never happy with was how the ARB fit and how it tweaked under load. The non airbag version minus the crush cans seems to require less fiddling with.


PICT0555.jpg


DSCN1992.jpg
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Muddy, that's fantastic info, thanks. I haven't been able to get that much detail at any of the specialist Disco Websites. ;)

Sounds like the only real problem is the slotted holes, which isn't an insurmountable problem. How much material is there on the frame horns ahead of those existing bolts? Enough to drill and install another set of bolts?

Alternatively, install it and get is set up. Then remove one bolt, and weld a washer in exactly the right place on the crush can. Reinstall that bolt, then do another, until all 4 are done.
 

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