Applejack
Explorer
I may be wrong but I didn't think the ST MAXX came with the severe weather rating. I know mine sure don't. BTW the Duratracs pretty well own the the winter here in the wetter part of the PNW. Far superior to the ST MAXX.
Cooper Discoverer AT3 in snow
- Thread starter WU7X
- Start date
I may be wrong but I didn't think the ST MAXX came with the severe weather rating. I know mine sure don't. BTW the Duratracs pretty well own the the winter here in the wetter part of the PNW. Far superior to the ST MAXX.
gorillamel
Dirty Blonde
I also live in the Boise area (grew up in the Midwest, so I know exactly what all of you are referring to regarding the snow removal, or lack thereof). I put the Cooper Discoverer AT3s on over the summer on my 2door JK. I was aware of the lack of snow flake rating and so far, considering the utterly awful roads we have out here and that I drive in the evenings when the roads re-ice over, I cannot complain too much about the tires. I am not trying to be demeaning when I say this, but I also adjust the way I drive in the winter on crap covered roads vs. summer driving, shifting quickly, taking corners fast. I go slow and get where I want to go in one piece. Yeah, it takes me longer and stresses me out more, but in the end the goal is accomplished.
I have noticed some rear end sliding, but I attribute that more to the utterly awful road conditions, than I do the tires. Each to their own, I guess. And everyone has slightly different road conditions in which they drive. I drive mostly country roads that are straight-ish and go up and down a bit, but are wind swept and ice-covered.
I'm hoping to get out into the desert mountain trails a bit (Owyhees) over the weekend and can test out the tires there. Hopefully they perform fairly well for what they are, hahaha.
I have noticed some rear end sliding, but I attribute that more to the utterly awful road conditions, than I do the tires. Each to their own, I guess. And everyone has slightly different road conditions in which they drive. I drive mostly country roads that are straight-ish and go up and down a bit, but are wind swept and ice-covered.
I'm hoping to get out into the desert mountain trails a bit (Owyhees) over the weekend and can test out the tires there. Hopefully they perform fairly well for what they are, hahaha.
Clutch
<---Pass
I drive like an old man anymore. :sombrero:
We lived off a state road back up in the woods in PA...literally needed a 4WD to get up the 1/2 mile driveway in the winter. The freezing and thawing would turn it into a sheet of ice...I would bring one of the skid-steers home from the shop to clear it if it got too bad. Yeah, a little surprised by the lack of snow removal here...no biggie though...just wasn't prepared for a storm this early. The Taco had a leaky fuel injector...wasn't in a hurry to fix it...then wham...it snows...thought it would be melted in a day or so...but it wasn't. So I was stuck with a RWD Trooper with summer tires...the cables work, but are pain to fuss with. We are out in Canyon County, I would have to put them on to get to 84, then take them off...then put them back on once I got into Boise. Rather pull the lever on my transfer-case in the Taco..
I skirted the foothills of the Owyhees today, drove down to Marsing and around up through Nampa...took the dog for a walk at Lake Lowell.
We lived off a state road back up in the woods in PA...literally needed a 4WD to get up the 1/2 mile driveway in the winter. The freezing and thawing would turn it into a sheet of ice...I would bring one of the skid-steers home from the shop to clear it if it got too bad. Yeah, a little surprised by the lack of snow removal here...no biggie though...just wasn't prepared for a storm this early. The Taco had a leaky fuel injector...wasn't in a hurry to fix it...then wham...it snows...thought it would be melted in a day or so...but it wasn't. So I was stuck with a RWD Trooper with summer tires...the cables work, but are pain to fuss with. We are out in Canyon County, I would have to put them on to get to 84, then take them off...then put them back on once I got into Boise. Rather pull the lever on my transfer-case in the Taco..
I skirted the foothills of the Owyhees today, drove down to Marsing and around up through Nampa...took the dog for a walk at Lake Lowell.
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WU7X
Snow on the Roof
The ST/MAXX's have the winter snowflake emblem on their sides, and they can be studded. I shy away from studs as they tear up the roads around here something awful. I didn't get these Coopers with winter driving as the primary use for them in mind. But I do plan on getting the center of the treads siped. I wistfully plan on doing one or two of the BDRs each summer for the next few years. So I was looking for a tire that would: 1) work well with the 3" OME lift, they are tall and "skinny", 2) get me across most of the road (or lack thereof) surfaces I will encounter, and 3) have a good history of reliability. The lift is an attempt, not to look cool, but to allow me to stay away from all the extra weight and expense of body armor, heavy front and rear bumpers, etc. I have done that before and found that I didn't really need it, it added a lot of weight and stress to the vehicle, and was expensive. I am not a rock crawler. Road surfaces look like a bit of everything, asphalt, gravel, silt and dust, baby heads, sharp shards, and so on. I have read a lot of good things about these tires and have found few negative comments. The downside is that they will increase the height, thus make the rig a bit more top heavy on slopes, and they will change the geometry of the vehicle from factory specs. I can live with that.
BTW, I also grew up in the midwest and was driving in icy and snowy conditions before I was 16. I don't remember encountering "black ice" like this until I moved to Spokane. It is prevalent here during the winter months and one must always be aware of that fact. I have become a very slow and careful driver because of it.
I had a built up 2000 Taco with BFG ATs on it that did better than these AT3s, if I remember correctly. The AT3s on my 2011 T4R are very good dry road tires, great grip and very quiet. I haven't had the opportunity to drive them on gravel or dirt yet. On black ice, on my rig, they are not confidence inspiring. The roads around here yesterday were warm and wet. These tires did very well in that environment also. So, in January, I'll have four 265/75R17 AT3s for sale in Spokane. I hope the new tires will help me a bit with the black ice issue.
BTW, I also grew up in the midwest and was driving in icy and snowy conditions before I was 16. I don't remember encountering "black ice" like this until I moved to Spokane. It is prevalent here during the winter months and one must always be aware of that fact. I have become a very slow and careful driver because of it.
I had a built up 2000 Taco with BFG ATs on it that did better than these AT3s, if I remember correctly. The AT3s on my 2011 T4R are very good dry road tires, great grip and very quiet. I haven't had the opportunity to drive them on gravel or dirt yet. On black ice, on my rig, they are not confidence inspiring. The roads around here yesterday were warm and wet. These tires did very well in that environment also. So, in January, I'll have four 265/75R17 AT3s for sale in Spokane. I hope the new tires will help me a bit with the black ice issue.
Applejack
Explorer
I hope that extra siping down the center lugs help you, I think I am going to do the same. As they are now my ST MAXX's have poor manners even in well packed snow, I can't imagine how crappy they will be when things get icy. If the siping doesn't work I may stud them if there is enough tread left, and run them as my winter tires.
WU7X can you tell me where the snowflake symbol is on these tires. It's not that I don't believe you it's just I don't see it on mine, though sometimes I've missed things staring me in the face. Was it an option or are they all supposed to carry it? It seemed weird because before I bought these I researched the hell out of them and Cooper's website did not even recommend them for winter, in fact of all their testing categories winter traction is their worst. Maybe they changed compounds since I bought mine last May?
WU7X can you tell me where the snowflake symbol is on these tires. It's not that I don't believe you it's just I don't see it on mine, though sometimes I've missed things staring me in the face. Was it an option or are they all supposed to carry it? It seemed weird because before I bought these I researched the hell out of them and Cooper's website did not even recommend them for winter, in fact of all their testing categories winter traction is their worst. Maybe they changed compounds since I bought mine last May?
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WU7X
Snow on the Roof
Well, same thing happened with the AT3's this morning. Hocky pucks is a good term for these tires on black ice.
Applejack, You're memory is fine. I just rechecked my new tires; no snowflake. I, in my senile dementia, must have confused them with the General Altimax Arctic's that I had reinstalled on my '97 before turning it over to the two ladies who bought it. My bad.
Let's hope that you are right about the siping. I don't want to stud the new tires and cannot imagine trying to put chains on them.
Applejack, You're memory is fine. I just rechecked my new tires; no snowflake. I, in my senile dementia, must have confused them with the General Altimax Arctic's that I had reinstalled on my '97 before turning it over to the two ladies who bought it. My bad.
Let's hope that you are right about the siping. I don't want to stud the new tires and cannot imagine trying to put chains on them.
Ramblinman
Observer
Clutch
<---Pass
Those look decent, stud-able too (not that I want to run studs...nice to have the option.)
http://www.generaltire.com/tires/light-truck-crossover-suv/grabber-at-
Could always sell the Maxx's (before you sipe and mount them) while you still have a chance not to loose too much money on them, as they might have questionable snow/ice performance.
Chains aren't too horrible to put on...but to live in a place where there is bunch of freezing and thawing...it has having to take them on and off is a pain. We will be adding another 4WD vehicle to the stable.
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Applejack
Explorer
Are you guys running the C or E rated ST-Maxx's?
AT3's were on the list of tires to try...they are off the list now.
I did have a set of STT's those things were great in the snow (at least Arizona mountian snow)...never had a chance to try them on ice
E. I think they E may be the only rating they come in.
Clutch
<---Pass
Wonder if the 4Runner and Tacoma are heavy enough for decent snow/ice performance? Might be too stiff even with low psi...I see them on 3/4-1 tons running around here...many of them studded.
I see some sizes in C rating, 3 in 15" and 1 in a 17"...not much choice in that rating though.
http://us.coopertire.com/Tires/Light-Truck/DISCOVERER-S-T-MAXX.aspx
Applejack
Explorer
That's a very valid question and one I had too. Some people were telling me to just run lower pressures. I did run them for awhile at 29 psi instead of 33 but I started to notice some cracking in the area near the bead, so I aired them back up. My Duratracs were E rated and had the 3 ply sidewall, but they were no where near as stiff.
I have the A/T3 in P rated 265/75/16 and they have been really great in the snow. I'm not sure if being so soft in the sidewall makes any difference or not, but since having these tires, I've already decided I'm going to stick with them when they wear out. I have close to 40k on them now and they have at least another 10k left in them. Hard to believe but it's true. I'm going with the E rated 235/85/16 next time though.
WU7X
Snow on the Roof
Those look decent, stud-able too (not that I want to run studs...nice to have the option.)
http://www.generaltire.com/tires/light-truck-crossover-suv/grabber-at-
Could always sell the Maxx's (before you sipe and mount them) while you still have a chance not to loose too much money on them, as they might have questionable snow/ice performance.
Chains aren't too horrible to put on...but to live in a place where there is bunch of freezing and thawing...it has having to take them on and off is a pain. We will be adding another 4WD vehicle to the stable.
One of the primary prerequisites of my tire selection was that it be a 255/80R17 size. I only found two readily available; the BFG KO and the Cooper ST/MAXX. I picked the Cooper because I thought it would be better in, guess what, snow and ice. I like tall, skinny tires. There is a reason why many of the world's military organizations pick tires like this. Tom Sheppard and LR also prefer them. The primary place where skinny tires fail is in sand dune type desert environments. I don't do deserts like that. I have planned my rig's suspension around this size tire too. So I'm stuck without going back to the drawing board. All the parts for my buildup are on their way.
I guess I will have to bite the bullet and get a couple sets of chains for the black ice situations. Bah humbug!
I am truly appreciating all the great comments coming in on this. What a wonderful, educational forum! Thanks guys.
Clutch
<---Pass
Bummer not too many choices! (in that size)
There are some alternative devices out there other than chains.
http://www.flextrax.com/
http://www.spikes-spiders.com/
There are some alternative devices out there other than chains.
http://www.flextrax.com/
http://www.spikes-spiders.com/