Why not use a commercial box as a camper conversion?

[webman9113]

I think I made a horrible mistake by finding this site and reading so many of the posts in the forums - I've caught the expedition vehicle bug! And, shockingly enough, my wife thinks it's a great idea, too.

Now, we don't really have in mind going off road, but we want a vehicle that can handle *bad* roads (not so bad that only a Unimog could get through, but something that would severely challenge a conventional small RV). With that and some other criteria in mind, I'm thinking along the lines of a used Fuso FE as the base vehicle. An FG would be great, but that would kill my budget and probably be overkill for what we really need.

While I have a lot of questions (which I'll leave for later), one thing struck me that I haven't really seen much commentary on, unless I just missed the thread: are there any compelling reasons *not* to use a freight box, if of suitable size (I'm thinking maybe 7' high x 14'), and modify it to serve as a camper for a "bad road capable vehicle" application?

 

[SkiFreak]

are there any compelling reasons *not* to use a freight box, if of suitable size

Firstly... welcome to the forum.

A freight box is definitely a viable option and there have been many that have gone down this route.
It all comes down to what you want out of the camper. As for using a 2WD... that's a whole other story. There is a current thread that covers that topic, so I will not duplicate comments about that here.

 

[webman9113]

Thanks for that! And I've been tracking the 2WD vs 4WD thread. Too bad no one makes a lockable rear diff for the 2WD trucks. D'oh!

 

[Czechsix]

paging Mog.....paging Mog......

(he's going exactly the way you're thinking, OP. Commercial box, and make it work...)

 

[k9lestat]

imo the 2wd vs 4wd argument is a personal preference, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[quickfarms]

imo the 2wd vs 4wd argument is a personal preference, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I have found that with the exception of deep mud and sand the driver has more to do with it than the vehicle.

Personally I like the four wheel drive for the ground clearance.

Most factory four wheel drives have open differentials in them. A two wheel drive with similar ground clearance, tires and a locker will go just as far as the factory four wheel drive.

The truck I am building now has a air locker in the rear axle

 

[SkiFreak]

The truck I am building now has a air locker in the rear axle

What type of truck is that?

 

[webman9113]

I have found that with the exception of deep mud and sand the driver has more to do with it than the vehicle.

Personally I like the four wheel drive for the ground clearance.

Most factory four wheel drives have open differentials in them. A two wheel drive with similar ground clearance, tires and a locker will go just as far as the factory four wheel drive.

The truck I am building now has a air locker in the rear axle

The ground clearance is an issue I already had on my radar. I assume that something like an FE could be modified with different springs and shocks to lift it a bit, but I haven't come across a round figure of how much that might cost. Upgrading the tires and converting to rear singles would be a chunk of change ($2K? More?) I'd have to allow for regardless of an FE or FG.

Ditto on SkiFreak's question: what type of truck of truck are working on, k9lestat?

And lastly, if I was able to find an FG that was in my budget, if I were to go with a commercial box, would it still require a subframe?

 

[pugslyyy]

The ground clearance is an issue I already had on my radar. I assume that something like an FE could be modified with different springs and shocks to lift it a bit, but I haven't come across a round figure of how much that might cost. Upgrading the tires and converting to rear singles would be a chunk of change ($2K? More?) I'd have to allow for regardless of an FE or FG.

Ditto on SkiFreak's question: what type of truck of truck are working on, k9lestat?

And lastly, if I was able to find an FG that was in my budget, if I were to go with a commercial box, would it still require a subframe?

1. Super singles (5 tires and rims) will run around $5k. $500 per tire and $500 per custom rim - it's not cheap but not crazy.

2. subframe depends on your build. without a subframe the commercial box will probably not be rigid enough to attach things to on the inside (walls, cabinets, etc) Those boxes are designed to flex/move but the stuff you would want to have on the interior not so much.

 

[foxhunter]

When I had my 2WD 26ft class c, we could never risk going to some of our favorite out of the way spots unless the weather was right. What a pain it was to want to go camping but being afraid we would get stuck. Or to be in a good spot and leave early because the weather was deteriorating. Then one day it was nice weather and we took it to a favorite place, but the rains the previous week had created washouts and I ended up with the vehicle stuck in the middle of a gravel road because the washed out dip in the road set my camper on its frame at the back. It was a long walk to find a farmer with a tractor.
That is when I went with a mog. That said, had I kept the class C, I would have lifted it and put winches front and rear, and carried adequate jacks and other recovery equipment . I probably would have done that before trying to put a locking differential on the rear axle, just because it is easier for me to do. I also didn't do that to the class C because those bad roads were shaking it apart and I was always fixing loose/broken cabinets and doors.

 

[webman9113]

Hmmm. Okay, more to think about. I don't want to duplicate what's going on in the other thread (2WD vs 4WD) except to say that we probably wouldn't be heading out anywhere where there wasn't a preexisting road - we're more "village people," if ya know what I mean? Not that we don't like enjoying nature's beauty (we do), but we'd probably spend more time on the beaten track than off in most places, and in some cases where an off road adventure is a must-do to reach something spectacular, we could probably hire a suitable car/driver. Now, having said that, I know that some of the typical roads between villages/towns in many countries aren't much better than mule tracks and worse when it rains, and I would definitely choose a 4WD vehicle if it looks like we could afford one. But with most of the pre-2007 FGs that I see going for over $20K, that's pretty stiff for the chassis, then the mods and camper build/refit on top of it. But I'm just exploring possible options and haven't eliminated anything at this point.

I guess what it boils down to for us is the best compromise between capability of the vehicle + amenities of the camper and cost. We don't have a fortune to sink into an Earthcruiser or a high end custom build, much as I'd love to, nor do we have the money to put up for a carnet for something like that (which is one reason I'm trying to keep vehicle value low, aside from just keeping my wallet semi-intact). But we *are* determined to get out there and poke around in the world, even if we do manage to get stuck in the mud now and again. And hey, what better way to meet the locals, LOL?

Oh, and just a side note so you know why we're looking at something like the Fuso rather than a smaller vehicle (SUV, etc.): we definitely want a live-in, not live-beside vehicle. That's mandated by the DW!

 

[quickfarms]

One issue with commercial boxes is they are built as light as possible to increase the cargo capacity of the vehicle.

A lot of the commercial boxes have a translucent roof so they do not have to put lights inside.

One box you should look at is a S-280 shelter.

 

[quickfarms]

What type of truck is that?

This truck has a Rockwell axle in it.

My other truck has eatons in it with Detroit lockers.

With careful driving I could take the old Mack three axle through some really deep mud. This truck had an air locker in each axle and the power divider. Yes I did get stuck on occasion but that was on a land clearing site or in the dump and only when I stopped, a quick tug, or push, from a waiting dozer or track hoe was all that was needed to get me going again.

You can get limited slips from the factory in American pickups, lockers are aftermarket. The medium and heavy duty trucks Class 6, 7 and 8 can be ordered with either Detroit lockers or air lockers from the factory.

I find it hard to believe that there is not some type of locker available for the axle that is in them.

 

[Czechsix]

Web - how much of the work can you do yourself?

Reading what your parameters are, I'd probably opt for a 2wd with LS, better suspension and clearance, and leave it at that. Maybe a winch, maybe not. Just remember that every modification comes with an attendant train of other required mods.....

Put the rest of the money into the coach, and making the cab decent for long distances (better seats, for instance). Many of these parts can be sourced used, or from other models/makes, if you're willing to take the time, do the legwork, and the mods.

The other thing is that even if you don't come up with a vehicle with a good box, the boxes are relatively easy to find and mount. If you find something with a good chassis and cab, the box is a minor issue if it's in shabby condition.

You're planning on much the same as my buddy Mog is doing, except he's starting with an FG http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/members/1405-mog

 

[webman9113]

Web - how much of the work can you do yourself?

Reading what your parameters are, I'd probably opt for a 2wd with LS, better suspension and clearance, and leave it at that. Maybe a winch, maybe not. Just remember that every modification comes with an attendant train of other required mods.....

Put the rest of the money into the coach, and making the cab decent for long distances (better seats, for instance). Many of these parts can be sourced used, or from other models/makes, if you're willing to take the time, do the legwork, and the mods.

The other thing is that even if you don't come up with a vehicle with a good box, the boxes are relatively easy to find and mount. If you find something with a good chassis and cab, the box is a minor issue if it's in shabby condition.

You're planning on much the same as my buddy Mog is doing, except he's starting with an FG http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/members/1405-mog

Dumb question: "2wd with LS" - what's the LS stand for? It might or might not be obvious - we just got back from one of our longer training sessions for a half marathon and I'm only semiconscious at this point!

But overall what you said fits with what I think would work for us. I can't do any heavy work on the chassis itself, but there are various shops around here that can sort out those bits, I'm sure. I think I can do a fair amount in terms of things like upgrading seats, and quite a bit of work on the box. I'm not terribly handy, but have a fair bit of time - about two years before our real international travel window opens when the boys are both gone to college - and plan to learn as I go. But ego isn't an issue: I have no problem calling in an expert on things I don't feel comfortable with. And the point you brought up about the train of related mods is a good one: I'd also prefer to keep things overall as simple as possible.

I did make the assumption that if I found a good truck at a good price that I'd just get a different box if the one already on it didn't look like it would work. There seem to be quite a few out there to be had.

And I have looked at quite a few posts by Mog, but I can't seem to find much of anything on his build??