plumber mike
Adventurer
Not to mention the new emissions standards, and the cost of owning and maintaining those components. Torque is a nice feature in a truck though.
2015 Chevrolet Colorado is Motor Trend's 2015 Truck of the Year
- Thread starter Kaisen
- Start date
Not to mention the new emissions standards, and the cost of owning and maintaining those components. Torque is a nice feature in a truck though.
Clutch
<---Pass
Should of just slapped in the 5.3 V8.
plumber mike
Adventurer
The smaller vehicle might be a better platform for that engine, as I think it lacks torque in the full size rigs......but it's a good motor and they already have it.
Doesn't much matter with the nanny. You push the gas, it pushes the brake. Hopefully it has good traction.
Clutch
<---Pass
5.3 has 355hp/383tq vs. the Diesel of 181hp/362tq.
That 5.3 would be a hoot in the "little" Colorado. Wonder why they didn't make it an option? Guessing it would take away from the diesel sales.
As for gas prices...all depends if they stay low...some "experts" say it is temporary while others say they will continue to drop for the next 2 years or so. If they stay low the diesel is going to be a tough sell, since 'Muricans tend to be short sighted.
With gassers having great longevity, combined with low maintenance now-a-days and getting decent fuel economy, unless you're towing heavy don't really see the need.
Clutch
<---Pass
Thanks Kaisen.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Republican's were sneaky and just pushed through some epic tax stacked on top of our pump taxes already here in CA. Rumor has it we will see a 75 cent bump in cost at the pump shortly. We also have not seen the drop in gas prices like other states given we have so many taxes levied on our pumps here.
I really like diesels however todays engines the only big advantages you get with a diesel is range and a different kind of power which is actually the only reason I would want one. My 4.7L V8 in my current truck is known for doing 350,000 miles before it needs to be torn down and get a major overhaul. I doubt I will ever come close to keeping a vehicle that long.
The diesels have added costs which are a must to keep the running really well. Fuel filters need to be replaced on a regular basis and they typically have a larger oil sump requiring larger amount of oil during servicing. That and the dumb diesel taxes piled on to the fuel which keeps diesel prices in many locations way above gas prices.
Also if fuel prices stay low at the pump I suspect it could cause talk of delaying the releasing new diesel trucks given most Auto Makers view the $5 gas price as the magic number that will drive diesel vehicle sales in light duty vehicles.
I really like diesels however todays engines the only big advantages you get with a diesel is range and a different kind of power which is actually the only reason I would want one. My 4.7L V8 in my current truck is known for doing 350,000 miles before it needs to be torn down and get a major overhaul. I doubt I will ever come close to keeping a vehicle that long.
The diesels have added costs which are a must to keep the running really well. Fuel filters need to be replaced on a regular basis and they typically have a larger oil sump requiring larger amount of oil during servicing. That and the dumb diesel taxes piled on to the fuel which keeps diesel prices in many locations way above gas prices.
Also if fuel prices stay low at the pump I suspect it could cause talk of delaying the releasing new diesel trucks given most Auto Makers view the $5 gas price as the magic number that will drive diesel vehicle sales in light duty vehicles.
Clutch
<---Pass
I would assume the small truck diesel is more of novelty now more than anything.
The V6 gasser with 305hp/269tq is more than enough.
Even if gas prices rise, diesel also tends to rise with it. $5 gas we might see $6-7 diesel. I dunno, small diesels might be too little too late. I notice Ford has no intention
of putting their 5 cylinder diesel in the F150...only going to market it to fleet van sales. More of a large fleet bean counter engine, than an everyday consumer one. Easier to recoup the costs over a couple 100 vehicles than a single one.
There are several 1/2 ton gas engines that produce torque around the 400 mark. Cheaper to buy upfront, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to fuel. The sales guys are going to have their work cut out for themselves. That said, probably sell a bunch to Tacoma guys who are tired on waiting for Toyota to update that platform. Though, a new drive-train in the Tacoma...might take the wind out of GM's sails in 2016. I am assuming the new Taco and oil burner GM twins will hit the floor roughly the same time for model year '16.
The V6 gasser with 305hp/269tq is more than enough.
Even if gas prices rise, diesel also tends to rise with it. $5 gas we might see $6-7 diesel. I dunno, small diesels might be too little too late. I notice Ford has no intention
of putting their 5 cylinder diesel in the F150...only going to market it to fleet van sales. More of a large fleet bean counter engine, than an everyday consumer one. Easier to recoup the costs over a couple 100 vehicles than a single one.
There are several 1/2 ton gas engines that produce torque around the 400 mark. Cheaper to buy upfront, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to fuel. The sales guys are going to have their work cut out for themselves. That said, probably sell a bunch to Tacoma guys who are tired on waiting for Toyota to update that platform. Though, a new drive-train in the Tacoma...might take the wind out of GM's sails in 2016. I am assuming the new Taco and oil burner GM twins will hit the floor roughly the same time for model year '16.
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texasnielsen
Outdoorsman
"Republicans were sneaky" ?
"Republicans were sneaky" ?
Sheet! The last time I spoke to a Republican who was from CA Reagan was still in office. As governor!
The Republicans have no where near a majority in CA, so how are they pushing any epic tax, fuel or otherwise?
http://http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/60day-general-2014/hist-reg-stats.pdf
According to the CA SOS, they only have ~ 28% of the registered voters in the State. Are democratic elected officials voting other then their demographic constituents prefer?
Okay, back to the Chevy product.
Mehh.
Nothing unique or grounding breaking with what's already been done before. (Move along people...) Everyone (the automotive media) gets their panties stained because GM has returned to the US with a mid-sized truck. A new wrapper around existing technology. The day that MT breaks with their historical mold and reports something truly inspired by real-world events I will be space dust. The Colorado will not be breaking the hold that Ford has owned on the best-selling vehicle in the US. However Ford will likely strengthen their hold by their latest release to the F150. So what really constitutes a "truck of the year" celebration? Pumping up existing platforms with a never-tried-before technology on trucking products (of this size) or releasing a new body style that doesn't venture out from the safety net?
Ford, with the F150 is at least trying to establish a new trail with the body panels made from something that 1/2 ton truck people have never seen before.
"Republicans were sneaky" ?
Sheet! The last time I spoke to a Republican who was from CA Reagan was still in office. As governor!
The Republicans have no where near a majority in CA, so how are they pushing any epic tax, fuel or otherwise?
http://http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/60day-general-2014/hist-reg-stats.pdf
According to the CA SOS, they only have ~ 28% of the registered voters in the State. Are democratic elected officials voting other then their demographic constituents prefer?
Okay, back to the Chevy product.
Mehh.
Nothing unique or grounding breaking with what's already been done before. (Move along people...) Everyone (the automotive media) gets their panties stained because GM has returned to the US with a mid-sized truck. A new wrapper around existing technology. The day that MT breaks with their historical mold and reports something truly inspired by real-world events I will be space dust. The Colorado will not be breaking the hold that Ford has owned on the best-selling vehicle in the US. However Ford will likely strengthen their hold by their latest release to the F150. So what really constitutes a "truck of the year" celebration? Pumping up existing platforms with a never-tried-before technology on trucking products (of this size) or releasing a new body style that doesn't venture out from the safety net?
Ford, with the F150 is at least trying to establish a new trail with the body panels made from something that 1/2 ton truck people have never seen before.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Our last election created a big shift in the CA politics. Southern CA and central CA are traditionally conservative Republican. Coastal locations from Santa Barbara North traditionally have always been Democrat. I see the new Modern Midsized trucks pulling in a different type of truck shopper. Such as my self. Someone who grew up with big trucks, has a white collar well paying career and has zero interest or need for a full sized pickup. However most of us own Subaru's, Highlanders, and smaller midsized vehicles but miss having that Truck capability. #1 Reason we didn't buy any of the smaller 4dr trucks already on the market was the need for properly functional seating for 4 people and yes many of us value passenger safety. If I can purchase a modern midsized truck that is in that Subaru to loaded Highlander, Pilot, RDX price range that offers passenger vehicle safety, decent seating comfort and space for 4 yet gain all the truck capabilities and even be getting similar possibly superior mileage than the Mid sized SUV? Then you just opened up a huge market of consumers that you typically do not have for the current crop of trucks.
This means yes 30-40K price tags on 4dr midsized trucks that offer interiors like what we can get in a limited Subaru Outback, Honda Pilot, even RDX etc. Given that is what we will expect to see for that price range and that is what we will want to have in the vehicle.
The Diesel factor for me is not about all the typical arguments saving money on fuel or the old claim that diesels are built heavier and last longer etc. For me its about increased RANGE, and lots of grunt at low RPM's. I have a respectable V8 SUV now! However you need to put your foot into it to get the full 300+LB feet twisting power. Not something your doing driving off road, driving to the grocery store, or even doing the speed limit through the Sierras. So in my case the little diesel in a modern midsized truck represents a vehicle that meets my needs exactly.
The only thing I see the new midsized market doing to the 1500 sized trucks like the F150 is taking a bite out of the soccer dad high end F150 fancy pants models given 100% of the dads I know driving a newer F150 today have the top of the line and interior F150 and seldom carry anything but a bicycle with it. Those same guys all HATE the mileage they get and would have easily purchased a slightly smaller truck if a really nicely appointed one with good mileage had been available.
I do not see many hard core full sized truck types getting excited at all about the midsized market. But then again they are not going to be the target consumer for those trucks either.
texasnielsen
Outdoorsman
Agree completely... I have no argument with your points. The disdain is for the media and their "XXX of the year" B.S. The market research budget that goes in to a new product by a Fortune 500 entity would keep most all of us very very comfortable for the rest of our lives. There is no doubt a market for the mid-sized market wearing a RAM, Bowtie, or Ford emblem on it. The statistics regarding manufacturing point of origin is interesting, but likely only to a very few. I imagine most people determine their allegiance to a brand by the brand name. So if the parent Co. is overseas, they must be buying a product from overseas. Or so they think. And so on. SO for those folk who would not purchase anything but "American" and do not need a full-sized vehicle to tow or haul toys, etc., this segment size makes perfect sense.
I just ask to stop being insulted us with the "XXX of the Year campaign" nonsense. Cars, trucks or otherwise. The market is both dilated, saturated, and dissected all at once. There's a niche' for most everything. The need to compare, puff chests, and declare mine is bigger, better, longer, stronger or brighter is demeaning to me and IMO drags us all down to the level of 5th Ave marketing shills. From the perspective of this website and tread lightly, the vehicle production industry consumes how much of the planets resources creating these products? And then, no matter what City you're in across the country, there are acres and acres of new vehicles sitting there waiting to be purchased. I don't have an answer to this other than manufacturing only when there is a POS. Most people wouldn't want to wait for the new car in the driveway. (Me included LOL!) I've gone off on a rant on epic proportions myself. So I better cease here as the fall from this box will likely hurt me given how tall I've constructed it!
Good luck (sincerely) hunting for the rig that will fit your needs calicamper. There's plenty of options out there!
(One last thing, I owned a Honda Ridgeline for several years for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Too bad it's gone the way of the dinosaur also.)
calicamper
Expedition Leader
I think the media has some good reasons for making such a big deal about the Colorado/Canyon. They bring BADLY needed attention to the smaller truck segment thats been more or less ignored and pumped for profit by Nissan and Toyota for a long time. ;-) .. I like the Frontier and the Tacoma I was very close to buying the Frontier back in 06. But it just didn't have enough going for it to justify dropping 27K on it. Since 06 I've contemplated looking again but there was ZERO reason to even think about buying new given any Frontier or Tacoma built from about 05 and later were all pretty much the same regarding mileage, seating room and options. LOL
The Colorado / Canyon Effect is a good thing given we badly need some improved and updated Midsized trucks LOL
The Colorado / Canyon Effect is a good thing given we badly need some improved and updated Midsized trucks LOL
Kaisen
Explorer
While there is certainly a market demand for midsize trucks, the re-emergence of the segment is *NOT* due to the profitability of the segment. It's not like a couple hundred thousand buyers will come to the midsize truck segment ("if you build it, they will come").
The biggest reason you're seeing GM back in the segment (and other manufacturers coming) is CAFE -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy. The current and upcoming regulations put a huge crimp on manufacturer's cash cows: full-size trucks. You can't sell a Raptor 6.2L without selling a little Escape 4 banger to offset it. The Canyon and Colorado exist to help GM sell hugely profitable Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburbans, etc. Why don't the Colorados have 5.3L V8s? Two reasons: one, CAFE; two, cannibalization of Silverado. Diesel? Great fuel economy numbers for CAFE. E85 alternative fuel? Double counters for CAFE. Same with CNG, and hybrids.... they count more.
It isn't only about some great demand from the US buying public. They'll just keep buying full size trucks. Esp when gas is under $2.00 (as it is RIGHT NOW in Oklahoma).
As for Motor Trend's choice for TOTY, a good friend of mine is a senior editor for MT and said the Colorado was simply the nicest truck overall, better than the new F150.
The biggest reason you're seeing GM back in the segment (and other manufacturers coming) is CAFE -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy. The current and upcoming regulations put a huge crimp on manufacturer's cash cows: full-size trucks. You can't sell a Raptor 6.2L without selling a little Escape 4 banger to offset it. The Canyon and Colorado exist to help GM sell hugely profitable Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburbans, etc. Why don't the Colorados have 5.3L V8s? Two reasons: one, CAFE; two, cannibalization of Silverado. Diesel? Great fuel economy numbers for CAFE. E85 alternative fuel? Double counters for CAFE. Same with CNG, and hybrids.... they count more.
It isn't only about some great demand from the US buying public. They'll just keep buying full size trucks. Esp when gas is under $2.00 (as it is RIGHT NOW in Oklahoma).
As for Motor Trend's choice for TOTY, a good friend of mine is a senior editor for MT and said the Colorado was simply the nicest truck overall, better than the new F150.
Clutch
<---Pass
Yep...more about government regulations, than filling a niche market.
Even with my anemic Tacoma, off-road in low-range, never felt a lack of power.
I dunno, still would rather have a turbo gasser at the end of the day. Those EcoBoost F150's sure are a hoot...and no diesel extra non-sense to deal with. Initial upcharge isn't too bad over the 5.0. Ford's 2.7 Eco would be pretty hot in the Ranger platform.
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calicamper
Expedition Leader
Oh no doubt! All our vehicle choices are heavily impacted by GOV mandated stuff today. All the way down to where the back up camera screens are allowed to be displayed. LOL
CAFE requirements sadly were needed given the Auto makers had no reason to eat into their Big Profit worst mileage platforms by investing more development money into improving mileage.
What is interesting to watch is how consumers value the trucks with sizable improvements in mileage. The whole pump cost factor will always be something some people will try and predict or chase with their vehicle purchase choice gas hog vs more efficient option? Etc
The big drop in fuel costs and the ensuing North America Oil production fields posing a major threat to making OPEC extinct is going to be a really interesting thing to watch. Especially for all of us that grew up with OPEC and 3rd world countries manipulating our economy and fuel cost with every little rumbling of instability.
I think most people value getting the more efficient choice that fits their need possibly even more today given we all know how fast political decisions can hit the wallet at the pump.