Trying to decide, Keep F350 Crew or go Montero

[Rot Box]

I've owned my crew cab Ford F350/FWC for 5 years now and had a 100 series Land Cruiser (similar to a Montero?) for one year in 2013. Family of four and two large dogs...

The Cruiser was awesome!! It was mildly built with a lift and lockers etc. and it was really fun to be able to run some of the more technical trails that the Ford would never fit on and do a bit of snow wheeling as well. That said by the time we packed my family and dogs into it for a weekend camping trip we had gear stuffed inside, strapped on top, hanging off the back and were strongly considering an expensive off-road trailer---super cramped and still sleeping in a tent (nothing against tents.. I personally can't sleep comfortably in them with my bad back. Also family + tent in grizzly bear country = my subconscious not letting me sleep at all). I love my dogs but I don't enjoy having them inside the cab with us. They roll in cow poop, whimper from excitement, act dumb as often as they can and roll in mud/swamp every chance they get.. Really stinky.

So that's why I went back to the F350. I love forced air heating and cooking, changing clothes etc indoors when the weather is foul. I love having more than enough space for everyone and everything. The dogs enjoy riding in the camper and/or under the topper and I love having them there. I also get better fuel mileage and range with the diesel engine.

I understand the concern for reliability of the 6.0 but if you want my opinion I say keep the truck.

 

[Rustlin']

I cant quite relate when it comes to preparing a journey for a family, but I do understand your apprehension concerning your 350.

I would mabye trade it for a crew cab gasser. You said that Nissan felt good, maybe a titan/tundra or CC domestic.

Then you could add an adventure suv to the picture. I would suggest a suburban or excursion - at least the wheelbase will be somewhat smaller.

Otherwise, a Cruiser or a trooper wouldbe the only midsized option that could realistically handle a family expedition, IMO.

 

[Porvalsh]

Guys lots of great replies and food for thought. Thanks for sharing your experiences and perspectives and thanks for not flaming as I'm sure this has come up a time or two here.

I'm with amgvr4. Keep the f350.

As far as reliability with the 6.0, they have issues but can be monitored and even prevented. You should have a scangauge or similar monitoring device. They are indispensable for diagnosing and finding issues before they leave you stranded. There are plenty of trucks going several 100k/mi on stock head bolts and egr coolers. Getting an obd2 gauge setup and doing a little reading on what to look for can do wonders. Stick with motorcraft/racor filters (fuel and oil) and if you eventually have to do an oil cooler do not go aftermarket. HPO issues are also relatively easy to diagnose and are also preventable.

Beyond that there are several forums specifically for the 6.0psd. Find one you are comfortable on and read away.

k.

Yeah, I did a lot of research on the 6.0 before buying the truck. I really like it, pulled a 24' trailer from Texas to here this summer to move, loaded 10k. No issues. I use the scanguage. There are some really good forums on it, and I have this massive spreadsheet with fixes, procedures, maintenance, etc. When I bought it I baselined all the maintenance and its been a really good truck for me. Its extremely clean too, no real nicks or scratches. I had a 7.3L before as well. I think both engines are great but I get a bit better mileage out of the 6.0L.

Keep your truck and if possible save up for a SUV to toy with later. That is, if your F350 has uses that you need and can't get out of a SUV. If that large truck is not needed then by all means get something that is more practical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a lot of my reasoning here. Since I don't tow anything, and work from home, the truck sits. Its a bit big for city driving.

Thanks man, I use a Everlast super ultra 205 TIG welder. The bumper was done with a friends Hobart MIG welder. The TIG is so nice in every way except speed. It is a slower process but it yields much better results in my hands. As far as wheeling goes I have done some really tight Jeep trails in Walker Valley with my truck when it was completely stock and it did just fine. It was tight, but with good spotting I made it through without a scratch.

Cool I'm thinking of trading one of my bikes for a TIG. I welded a bit back in school but never kept it up. I've always loved it!

In my opinion with 4 people and a dog the montero will feel really small.
It is 2 of us plus 2 dogs and we have an f250 ccsb and a montero sport so similar vehicles to what you are looking at but a touch smaller on each. I also have a lot of ski trips under my belt with a family of 5 in an envoy XL.
I would keep the F350, add a camper shell for the dogs and gear, and rock on. I occasionally take solo trips with the dogs in my montero sport, and by the end of the trip I'm usually wishing I was in the truck. As long as you are comfortable with your truck, you well get used to its size off road and know its limitations. In my experience most people don't push the limits of their full size even when they go on and on about breakover, departure angle, wheelbase, etc. Plus your kids are only getting bigger.

I can see how we will run out of room. With dog in the 3rd row area there's no room for gear in the rig. Will have to get roof rack, maybe a hitch rack for sure. I probably should just get out there with the truck, and see what its like.

I'd stick with the Ford as well, moving the EGR and stud update to top of list.

My beef with the Montero isn't the vehicle itself. Heck, I've long considered getting one. But they have issues as well, albeit, much like the Ford's, they're avoidable with simple fixes. My point being that I wouldn't get a 5-10 year old Montero to avoid upcoming problems on the Ford...you'll be exchanging one set for another.

I think that you'll find that your decision will need to be driven by the type of exploring you like to do. I see the Montero (and Cruisers/Rovers) being exceptionally well suited to mountain exploration. The Ford is better suited to desert exploration and long distance travel.

If you're not going to use 100% of the F350's capacity, you can improve the ride and the off-road capability with aftermarket springs. As already mentioned, the Ford's load capacity gives you a lot of options including shells, roof top tents, hard side campers and trailers.

Just my 2¢. You'll have fun either way.

Great point. I do have a new set of shocks on the vehicle but they are not off road type. Between the suspension and tires it is setup for towing/hauling heavy. The tires are Michelin LTX, all terrain but not THAT great for off road duty. They really sucked too in that snow storm we got in central Oregon in Dec.

 

[underdrive]

This is a lot of my reasoning here. Since I don't tow anything, and work from home, the truck sits. Its a bit big for city driving.

If you work from home, why do you care for city driving? :ylsmoke: Also keep in mind your truck is still smaller than most anything commercial that absolutely positively MUST run in the city day in and day out - think garbage trucks, food deliveries, heck even buses. If they fit so can you, the only real problem could be covered parking garages if they are low clearance but that's why you don't lift your truck to the moon.

I can see how we will run out of room. With dog in the 3rd row area there's no room for gear in the rig. Will have to get roof rack, maybe a hitch rack for sure. I probably should just get out there with the truck, and see what its like.

Yup, you'll run out of room while still packing even. Roof rack and hitch carrier can solve that problem somewhat, but will open up another - anything tied to the roof and not protected by a hard shell of some sorts is fair game for branches and rain/snow/ice, and depending on how low your trailer hitch sits your departure angle can go to heck and you can bend the carrier when you try to go over something that requires the front wheels to climb up high enough (and if you're worried about high-centering the long-wheelbase truck that means your wheels will be climbing pretty high). With the pickup truck your gear is well protected from both vegetation (and some wildlife) and the elements, and you got nothing hanging off your bumpers to take damage should things get a bit challenging.

 

[bfdiesel]

If it was anything but a hard starting 6.0 I would say keep it. With it having issues already at 40* it will not be getting any better. Both my brothers have ended up putting a lot of $$ into trying to keep a 6.0 running. One gave up and traded it, the other paid out and fixed his. He likes it still in that he has so much into it that he feels he can't get rid of it.
I have an old burb and it works good for tent camping, almost too small now that there is 5-6 of us that go. I like taking the truck and camper if I am not going into really hairy stuff, works great for fishing trips and young kids.
I would recommend exploring a bit with what you have and see what you want from there. Trying to plan it out without getting out and doing it is like bench racing, going nowhere fast!

 

[kmcoop7]

KEEP IT

As someone who has been in your boat keep it. I previously had an F350 and a very well built 97' landcruiser. The landcruiser was sold....so was the ford and I replaced it with a 14' 3500 cummins. But I did decide to stick with the full size. Note I do have 37's and a ARE MX topper on my truck with a small lift.

Why:

- most of the trails that the 80 series would do, that you couldn't in a full size, no one in my family would ride on anyway. Too steep, too slow, too rough. You would need a well modified Monty to have done those trails too. (holy cross, blanca peak, golden spike). The big rig does fine on everything else.
- We have 3 kids and two dogs. Even with a rocket box, the 80 was overflowing.
- when those kids and dogs are dirty, in the back they go. When skiing, and we need to take a break, we can easily pile 6 people (4 kids) in the bed of my truck, ski boots, no problem. Need heat, we just fire up a little propane heater and crack a window.
- Power. Any of the older wheeling SUV's are dogs. I can run 105mph up hill at 10k feet in my truck in 6th gear. Try that in a Montero.
- cab space. Monteros aren't any where near the cab space and comfort of a big truck. It is just easier to put stuff in and crawl around with kids if needed.
- You would be surprised what your Ford would do with 37's and a few inches of lift. I have run mine in deep snow, tight trails, some rocky stuff, mud too. 99% of the trails out there you can squeeze a full size long bed down. Is it hard to turn around, yes. The only time that bothers me at all any more is in snow and ice. I have chains for that. You will get some pin stripes, but probably not more than you would put on a monty.

Sure 6.0's have some issues. Keep clean fluids and filters, and if your oil cooler goes, swap in a Bullet proof kit for the oil cooler and EGR. your head gasket will more than likely outlast the rest of the motor.

My recommendations for ford mods:
- topper.
- carli lift. Even their entry level stuff is light years ahead of most other kits on the market, even a level kit with good rear shocks will make a world of difference.
- 37's. They will fit, as long as you have the right wheels.
- save up for a bullet proof diesel egr cooler and external oil cooler kit - $3k. They will go someday.
- if you want to push your truck off road: rock sliders, a rear locker, some good chains (snow)

In reality, you would probably spend a good chunk of change on either to get them up to par for your use. I like having space and power, sure there are a few hardcore trails I can't get down, and a few I am a little more cautious on, but those days are pretty rare. I need space every day!

 

[redthies]

As someone who has been in your boat keep it. I previously had an F350 and a very well built 97' landcruiser. The landcruiser was sold....so was the ford and I replaced it with a 14' 3500 cummins. But I did decide to stick with the full size. Note I do have 37's and a ARE MX topper on my truck with a small lift.

Why:

- most of the trails that the 80 series would do, that you couldn't in a full size, no one in my family would ride on anyway. Too steep, too slow, too rough.

That sums it up nicely. Oh, and KMCoop, we (I) NEED to see some pics of your '14!

 

[Porvalsh]

So we decided to get a Montero and see how it goes. We did not trade the truck in on the Montero and so for now we have Montero, F350 and Genesis Sedan.

First impressions

• Definitely not as roomy.
• Seems to be thoughtfully built. Everything fits together well.
• Decent power if its just the family.
• Drives very well, tight steering, comfortable.
• Moonroof is large, kids love it.
• Good visibility
• Fits in garage!

The rear seat has only 2 "latch" systems for car seats, although it has 3 clasps behind the seat for 3 car seats. I prefer using the latch because it holds the seats tighter. This seems really strange to me that it is mismatched.

My wife really likes the truck. She had a CRV a while back and this reminds her of it, just a bit bigger, capable, and more SUV'ish (probably because of the Grabber AT2's). I like the rig too. We went downtown after church for brunch with my parents and it was easy to park. Felt like I could zip in and out of traffic easily, good visibility, etc.

That being said I can see how you guys run out of room quickly. Since our kids are still young we can stow things below their feet in front of the rear seat but if we allow the entire 3rd row area to the dog we will run out of room quickly. I was thinking about pulling the 3rd row seat out. This would give me a good size compartment for storage on longer trips, or a good tub area for groceries.

There is enough room though for the double wide jogging stroller, dog and kids and some groceries, and because of the height it is easier to get the kids in for my wife. The F350 was too big for her at 5'2", made it hard to lift kids in. Our sedan is ok but can be awkward sometimes. Even though it is full size she could not fit stroller in without breaking it down.

We will continue to use it this year and see how it goes. I have a sneaky suspicion it might turn into more of a "day trip" vehicle, and then a DD for my wife. I would actually like this because our Genesis is the R-Spec version, really nice. I cringe every time I drive it because I'm reminded its hauling the kids around. The same kids that piss their pants, drop food everywhere, kick the back of the seats and climb in and out scratching things up. ...not to mention my wife is driving it, the same person that once drove into a stationary post in a parking lot. If my wife likes driving the Montero more than the Genesis then the only thing on my mind is it breaking down and her being stranded, don't care if it gets beat up, it already is.



With the F350 I can see possibly getting an older one to replace it. I've heard good things about the V10...could get a 2000 Super Duty CC with the V10, something I'm not worried about beating up. Use this for 3-7 day camping trips if we run out of room in Monty.

 

[snowaddict91]

Nice! I left that out of my original post, but if you can swing having the truck as a 3rd vehicle, that is the ultimate solution IMO. Truck, suv, and small car gives you the right vehicle for any situation.

 

[AFBronco235]

Since you seem to have made up your mind to trade in the wife's car for the Montero and just keeping an eye out for an older crewcab, may I suggest you look for an OBS (old body style) F250/350 or Bronco?

OBS style fords are from 1980-1997 and are IMO, the toughest generation of pickups ford produced. Not to mention that just about ANY mod you can think of is mostly bolt-off/bolt-on. They may be older, but the experience and knowledge to fix them is out there. They're EXTREMELY easy to work on by yourself. Smog pumps and such are less of an issue. The motors are reliable and can be rebuilt. If you want more capacity out of an F250, just through F350 springs in the back. If you're not afraid of a little welding, you can even cut down the frame, move the axle forward and mount a short bed on it. Its not as hard as it sounds since they used a simple ladder frame made from C-channel. Not to mention that these days, they're just plain cheap. You can mix and match engines and transmissions to fit your needs. In the 4X4 models, the front TTB (Twin Traction Beam) suspension gets a lot of flack for being unreliable, but the only times I've heard of it failing was when someone modified it, and its usually the modification itself that failed, not the original parts. Stock, its one of the smoothest, toughest independent front suspensions out there on a 4WD vehicle, even by modern standards.

I'm gonna go ahead and tack on a Bronco to my idea's list, even though you already have an SUV. They're built along the same lines as the F series pickup of the same model years and you can easily swap parts between them. From the doors forward, the bronco is identical to the F series pickup. Modifications are relatively simple. Storage is a bit limited, but a small off-road trailer should fix that. Throw on a RTT for you and the wife and let the kids and dog sleep in the Bronco. Modifications are easy and mostly bolt on, like the F series. I think I've only had to drill 3 times for modifications, for the roof rack, tow points and a small hole for wiring in my roof lights. You may have a slight problem with fitting the kids in the back after a few years, but by that time, they'll be old enough to drive they're own SUV/truck.

 

[Porvalsh]

Nice! I left that out of my original post, but if you can swing having the truck as a 3rd vehicle, that is the ultimate solution IMO. Truck, suv, and small car gives you the right vehicle for any situation.

Yeah for now this seems the best, however, I would prefer not to have such a large amount of cash tied up in an asset that depreciates over time. I think the comment made about just needing to get out and get experience is probably the best one for us. Since we've never really done this with a family its new. Also our expedition experience was in Colorado, not Oregon so we're not sure what is the same or different here, need to explore a bit.

 

[Porvalsh]

I'll certainly keep this in mind. I'm not sure if I'm ready for a "project" though . I have a '56 Chevy pickup that I want to do with my Dad first as a project...Its been in the family since purchased in 1956. My Dad doesn't want to sell it, but seems ok about leaving it parked on the street for years on end. I'd like to get it in, get the rust under control, fix her up so she runs consistently. I have big dreams of doing a cummins swap in it, with some sort of 4x4 coversion but this probably isn't on the book according to Dad. I think he likes the stock look - which is fine. Just need to get the rust under control. It just isn't right parking it on the street to sit.

Since you seem to have made up your mind to trade in the wife's car for the Montero and just keeping an eye out for an older crewcab, may I suggest you look for an OBS (old body style) F250/350 or Bronco?

OBS style fords are from 1980-1997 and are IMO, the toughest generation of pickups ford produced. Not to mention that just about ANY mod you can think of is mostly bolt-off/bolt-on. They may be older, but the experience and knowledge to fix them is out there. They're EXTREMELY easy to work on by yourself. Smog pumps and such are less of an issue. The motors are reliable and can be rebuilt. If you want more capacity out of an F250, just through F350 springs in the back. If you're not afraid of a little welding, you can even cut down the frame, move the axle forward and mount a short bed on it. Its not as hard as it sounds since they used a simple ladder frame made from C-channel. Not to mention that these days, they're just plain cheap. You can mix and match engines and transmissions to fit your needs. In the 4X4 models, the front TTB (Twin Traction Beam) suspension gets a lot of flack for being unreliable, but the only times I've heard of it failing was when someone modified it, and its usually the modification itself that failed, not the original parts. Stock, its one of the smoothest, toughest independent front suspensions out there on a 4WD vehicle, even by modern standards.

I'm gonna go ahead and tack on a Bronco to my idea's list, even though you already have an SUV. They're built along the same lines as the F series pickup of the same model years and you can easily swap parts between them. From the doors forward, the bronco is identical to the F series pickup. Modifications are relatively simple. Storage is a bit limited, but a small off-road trailer should fix that. Throw on a RTT for you and the wife and let the kids and dog sleep in the Bronco. Modifications are easy and mostly bolt on, like the F series. I think I've only had to drill 3 times for modifications, for the roof rack, tow points and a small hole for wiring in my roof lights. You may have a slight problem with fitting the kids in the back after a few years, but by that time, they'll be old enough to drive they're own SUV/truck.

 

[ChuckB]

We will continue to use it this year and see how it goes. I have a sneaky suspicion it might turn into more of a "day trip" vehicle, and then a DD for my wife. The same kids that piss their pants, drop food everywhere, kick the back of the seats and climb in and out scratching things up. ...not to mention my wife is driving it, the same person that once drove into a stationary post in a parking lot. If my wife likes driving the Montero more than the Genesis then the only thing on my mind is it breaking down and her being stranded, don't care if it gets beat up, it already is.

LOL, this is my life as well, right down to the parking post...

My 100 Series LC is getting pretty small with 3 kids in car seats and 2 dogs. I'm thinking about getting a bigger vehicle when I return from being stationed in Europe. E350 4x4 van is looking pretty attractive. The Rubicon can wait...

 

[xbox73]

[*]Easier to maneuver and park. ---->Probably not looking at expedition EL's or Excursions if we are to make a switch. F350 LWB is massive.

I'm biased, but my suggestion is an Excursion with a 7.3L PSD, preferably an early version with forged rods.

Like Goldilocks, not too big (F350), not too small (Montero), just right. It's a lot more maneuverable than an F350, 137" wheelbase vs F350 CCLB 172+" wheelbase (i.e. nearly 3 feet shorter), so much more suitable to full time or occasional daily driving duties. Also, as far as parking in tight parking lot spots goes, it's easier to reverse in.

And, you'd still have the capability to pull a decent size trailer if/when needed.

On the other hand, very few people take their vehicles beyond fire roads & undeveloped campgrounds, etc., so if that's your intended usage, then you're probably just fine sticking with your F250 & the extra space it affords.

 

[bfdiesel]

Congrats on the new wagon