Not enjoying my 80-Series; did I make the wrong choice?

[MikesVX80]

OK, I'll be honest – I'm having second thoughts about my 80-Series LC purchase, and wondering if I should have bought a 100-Series from the outset. I bought it because everyone on this (and other) forums raves about them, and the missus and I are planning a significant overland trip in a year or so's time, so it seemed like the ideal vehicle: solid, spacious, (reasonably) basic and thus reliable, good spares support, etc. However, having owned it for a couple of months now, a few 80-Series flaws are starting to show though, and I either need to remedy them or change the vehicle if I am to be happy driving and living in it for many months at a time. Compared to the Range Rover Classics I have owner previously (of the same era), it is nothing like as refind to drive, and this irritates me.


One of my main complaints is with the ride and handling; it is completely standard bar a matching set of BF Goodrich A/T tyres. I have been looking at an Ironman 2” lift kit with foam cell shocks and an uprated steering damper, is this likely to drastically improve the handling characteristics and ride quality? Currently it crashes over fairly minor road imperfections and potholes, you get quite a lot of shake through the steering wheel when you do, and the ride quality is, IMO, pretty poor. The steering is also exceptionally light, and thus a little vague; I'm not expecting sports car handling or feedback, but I don't like the current vague feel of the vehicle. Would an uprated steering damper make much difference to the excessive feedback I get from the bumps, and help dampen-out the extra unsprung mass of the bigger tyres? And does the Ironman 2” lift kit improve ride quality and body control, or just raise the centre of gravity (making handling worst) and make the ride even harsher?


Secondly, power; mine is a 4.2TD 12 valve manual, but 70-80mph seems to be a real struggle; it seems happiest at around 60-65mph, which feels painfully slow to me, particularly for a 4.2 litre engine. 70mph is around 2,500rpm I think - is that typical? Short of changing the gearing (sounds expensive) or adding an intercooler (is expensive), is there much I can do to improve this? The tyres are larger than standard (285/75/16/s I think?), so using a GPS 70mph on the clock is exactly 70mph GPS–verified. It's not like it can't do 70mph, it can, it just feels like you're stretching the engine to do it, and I would much rather it was doing around 2,000rpm to achieve 70mph in 5th, a much more relaxed (and economical) cruise.


So, are these “common” complaints for an 80-Series, or am I just expecting too much from a 20+ year old vehicle? If the above points can't be resolved at reasonable cost (or at all), I think I may need to sell up and get a newer, more refined 100-Series LC (or even an Discovery 3/LR3!) instead, although finding a decent manual diesel one of those is partly why I picked up this 80 when it became available – they are few and far between!


Thanks in advance!

 

[UK4X4]

its a 20 year old truck so that makes it a 25 year old design

the 4.2td should be able to do 100mph maxed out,,,,,,last time I drove one in anger,,,but it was relatively new at the time

I would start with refreshing all the bushes and front suspension joints, then look at dampers and springs

That motor is a heavy lump, but untaxed and lazy----making it very reliable but not comparable to a modern diesel engine

I'm presently down grading from a 2006 TDV6 RR sport to a 2002 Nissan Patrol 3TD, the drivability and ride are similar in the Patrol to the Landcruiser.

its agricultural, long travel gear changes and a deep diesel growl- mines running 70mph at 3000rpm on standard tires compared to 2400rpm in the Range rover

I'll be going to 33's shortly to gain some speed V's revs

I only bought it two weeks ago and on sun drove it from Poole to Aberdeen......probably took me an hour longer than the RR sport and yep the potholes threw shuders , I'll be doing a front suspension bushes overhaul on my return to tighten things up.
The patrol and the LC share the same basic design, suspension and size and were designed for the same markets..

Big tough and long lasting.................refined driving and 130mph only came with the latest models, not the early ones.

I'd rather take a Patrol or 80 series down through africa than any modern vehicle, just for the reliability and ease of fixing, with no computer required

Go for a late model and you'll need to bring the relavent computer with you.

Roads outside europe will only allow for slow progress, due to donkeys, pot holes and general conditions, more of a scenic cruise than a UK motorway rush

 

[MikesVX80]

Thanks for the response! I understand it is an older design, but the Range Rover Classics' were so much further ahead in terms of ride quality, and that was a Design going back another 30+ years! Admittedly both of mine were 3.9 V8's rather than Tdi's...

New bushes all round would be done with the suspension upgrade for sure. I previously had a RR Sport (an ex-G4 challenge vehicle, as it happens) and am realistic in that I am not expecting the car to handle, go or stop like that did, but I definitely need to improve the aspects I've mentioned.

Can you tweak the fuel pump on the 12 valve motor? I've read plenty about this being done on 24 valve engines, but cannot find much info for the 12 valve lump.

I haven't driven a 100-Series back to back, but did these offer a vast leap forward in terms of development? Did the move away from solid front axles really make much difference to on-road characteristics?

Thanks!

 

[Root Moose]

Maybe drive someone else's 80 before spending any real money on yours? Anyone in your local club have an 80 set up similar to what you have in mind?

It'd be disappointing to spend a lot of money on a vehicle and not end up with a result that you like. This is why you see so many recently built up vehicle for sale.

 

[MikesVX80]

Unfortunately 80-Series LC's are not popular in the UK, even less so in expedition spec. Over here everyone chooses Defender's or Discovery's (LR2's/LR3's) for their overland travels!

For me, a Defender is not comfortable - not enough leg or elbow room in the cab. Disco 2's (the Td5 models) are not mechanically reliable enough, and LR3's provide their own concerns with regards to the electrics; if it wasn't for that I think the LR3 would be the perfect overland vehicle!

 

[kletzenklueffer]

Try talking to the 4xOverland guy? Andrew St. Pierre White. Looks like he's in Lincolnshire area. I know he grew up on RR's, and has expo'd with 80's, 100's and RR's. He may be able to give you some insight on what to expect from both the 80 and the 100. As far as steering, adjustment of the steering box, and replacement of worn bushings and tie rod ends should tighten things up, as well as a refurbed suspension.

http://4xforum.com/

He moved to UK and has experience with all of these, and imported his 70 series to UK vs. selling it in SA.

 

[oscar the grouch]

trade you a grand cherokee

 

[RMP&O]

Kind of hard to really comment without more info. How many miles are on the truck? What kind of previous life has it lived? What kind of service did it get in all those years?

Is it going to cost you a lot of money to bring it up to the standards you are looking for? My guess is yes it will. Nearly everything is also opening a can of worms. Lift it and you will bring castor way out making it handle much worse.

I was not all that stoked on my 91 Cruiser when I got it. In fact I had just planned to do a few things to it, daily drive it a few years and then sell. However, as I did more to the truck it got better and better. Now after a 3-week trip in Baja living out of it, I am way into the truck and love it to death with no plans to get rid of it in the future. But I have had other trucks for the same purpose, lifted 4" and running around at GVW I know what to expect. And for that it performs beautifully. Having never owned a RR or any Rover I could only regurgitate all the bad stories and review I have read. I can tell you the 80 was top of the line Toyota 4wd SUV in the 90's. Front axle design is excellent, rear axle design is also excellent and for what it is, stock suspension is also designed very well. Again though, when you modify it will open a can of worms because the truck will no longer be "stock" so it won't perform like stock and needs work to make it perform correctly.

I am also not a fan of the stock motors, they are well built and good for what they are but are older technology, a gas hog and lacking in power. Mine had a chevy v8 when I got it which is one of the only reasons I considered it. With the v8, I have no complaints about power at all. My 80 handles very well after lot's of work to the front end. It corners and rides excellent. Steering is also super nice but I have done a steering conversion. Brakes work excellent, albeit they are brand new. I have had some issues with things like power windows not working but I know how old the truck is and can only imagine how many times the windows have gone up and down. Nothing lasts forever.

Recently on a trip to Baja I was at GVW (6500lbs) and even as high as 7,000lbs. I hit some topes at speed and it absorbed them no probs. I also had to brake hard more than once and it was not an issue, even that heavy. Driving Baja roads at night, more than once I was stressed because of how close the semi's get. No worries though as the Cruiser went where I asked it to go and I never had a time when I was upset with it because it nearly killed me.

Without more info I suspect you have a truck with a lot of miles and a lot of years on it. Shocks are probably worn out as are bushings. If it has the stock coil springs I would also put my money on them being worn out. 20-25yrs is a long long time for these things to provide service and you should expect them to be worn out and needing replacement.

If you are not capable or able to do the work yourself it will get expensive fast. Shop rates are not cheap. Doing all the work myself I still have dropped a lot of coin on my truck. And I still have a ways to go until I feel it is 100% done. If you are not ready for that, perhaps look elsewhere.

Good luck and cheers

 

[MikesVX80]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I've seen some of Andrew St Pierre-White's youtube videos but didn't realise he was in the UK! Might drop him a line, thanks.

RMP&O - it's actually quite a "young" truck; 21 years old, but only 1 owner from new and just 145,000 miles. Doesn't look like it's ever been offroad either, so I don't think it's had a hard life. Having said that, I expect things to wear out - I've replaced the front window seals already, for instance - but I just want to know if spending all this money on it will get me the truck I want, I guess!

 

[brentbba]

20 year owner of a LC. Unfortunately, those of us on this side of the pond can't comment on diesel performance as we aren't lucky enough to get them here in the colonies! Regarding the suspension, if the coils and shocks haven't been replaced, then DO IT. The original ones are likely the reason for the soft feel in the suspension you describe. I've upgraded to the Old Man Emu 2.5" lift, shocks and heavy coil springs and I do run 285's. Wow, what a difference in feel, cornering and handling when I did! I changed out the steering dampener at the same time. It will never be a sports car, but the handling on and off road improved immensely. Running 285's you shouldn't have a need to regear. I still run stock gearing for a gasser and I tow an offroad trailer. I've never felt the need to regear, even in the mountains of Colorado climbing to over 11,000 feet.

It's a truck, and a darned reliable one with parts available worldwide. If you wanted more power, yes the 100 series likely would have been a better choice. You then also get into the age old debate about the solid front axle on the 80 vs IFS on the 100. Your choice there.

Don't give up on her quite yet.

 

[Clutch]

Go test drive a new 4Runner...or in your case a Prado.

 

[calicamper]

OK, I’ll be honest – I’m having second thoughts about my 80-Series LC purchase, and wondering if I should have bought a 100-Series from the outset. I bought it because everyone on this (and other) forums raves about them, and the missus and I are planning a significant overland trip in a year or so’s time, so it seemed like the ideal vehicle: solid, spacious, (reasonably) basic and thus reliable, good spares support, etc. However, having owned it for a couple of months now, a few 80-Series flaws are starting to show though, and I either need to remedy them or change the vehicle if I am to be happy driving and living in it for many months at a time. Compared to the Range Rover Classics I have owner previously (of the same era), it is nothing like as refind to drive, and this irritates me.


One of my main complaints is with the ride and handling; it is completely standard bar a matching set of BF Goodrich A/T tyres. I have been looking at an Ironman 2” lift kit with foam cell shocks and an uprated steering damper, is this likely to drastically improve the handling characteristics and ride quality? Currently it crashes over fairly minor road imperfections and potholes, you get quite a lot of shake through the steering wheel when you do, and the ride quality is, IMO, pretty poor. The steering is also exceptionally light, and thus a little vague; I’m not expecting sports car handling or feedback, but I don’t like the current vague feel of the vehicle. Would an uprated steering damper make much difference to the excessive feedback I get from the bumps, and help dampen-out the extra unsprung mass of the bigger tyres? And does the Ironman 2” lift kit improve ride quality and body control, or just raise the centre of gravity (making handling worst) and make the ride even harsher?


Secondly, power; mine is a 4.2TD 12 valve manual, but 70-80mph seems to be a real struggle; it seems happiest at around 60-65mph, which feels painfully slow to me, particularly for a 4.2 litre engine. 70mph is around 2,500rpm I think - is that typical? Short of changing the gearing (sounds expensive) or adding an intercooler (is expensive), is there much I can do to improve this? The tyres are larger than standard (285/75/16/s I think?), so using a GPS 70mph on the clock is exactly 70mph GPS–verified. It’s not like it can’t do 70mph, it can, it just feels like you’re stretching the engine to do it, and I would much rather it was doing around 2,000rpm to achieve 70mph in 5th, a much more relaxed (and economical) cruise.


So, are these “common” complaints for an 80-Series, or am I just expecting too much from a 20+ year old vehicle? If the above points can’t be resolved at reasonable cost (or at all), I think I may need to sell up and get a newer, more refined 100-Series LC (or even an Discovery 3/LR3!) instead, although finding a decent manual diesel one of those is partly why I picked up this 80 when it became available – they are few and far between!


Thanks in advance!

Any feedback is pointless unless you actually load the 80 up with a large portion of the gear you plan on traveling with. Any empty vehicle built to carry the weight of lots of gear is going to ride horribly bad when empty. So first question is have you packed it full of gear yet and does it ride differently?

My 80 was a 93 which had the 4spd and 4.6L it could cruise at 70mph with 34inch BFG All Terrain tires on it. However! My buddies two door super sweet Gwagen did not do 70mph it was a 60-65mph rig on the highway. Any really good older off road rig with an old 3spd AT or even 4spd AT wasn't designed to cruise at 70mph for long periods of time. Also toss in a big head wind and a roof rack the 80 would sweat doing over 60mph. You want to do high speed highway stuff have a smooth ride and have load carrying ability you need a longer wheel base for the comfort and you need a healthy V8 which means your looking at vehicles like Pickup trucks like a Tundra, F150-F250 or GM product. The added wheel base smooths out the choppy ride you get with the shorter wheel base vehicles like the 80 series and yes even the newer 100 series V8 powered LC can serve up a choppy ish ride under some conditions. However the 100 has the IFS and is a more luxury ride compared to the older 80.

The inline 6 is not a high powered high speed engine either its pretty much a tractor engine designed to run at lower speeds with lots of grunt. The 80 was pretty fast and a nice ride back in the day when its competitors weren't V8 powered modern vehicles.

One thing is for sure regardless of your vehicle choice large off road tires and suspension built up to handle added weight of gear will not ride very nice when empty and for sure not be a high speed highway machine. My road trips I take my Subaru it will do 80mph easily all day long and very comfortably too. My old 80 on the rare trip we did take it we rarely drove 70mph more typically 60-65mph and simply enjoyed the sights along the way. Today we have the Sequoia its modern V8 makes it stupid fast far too capable than the handling capability of the truck and yes even with that truck we almost always take the Subaru given its still more comfortable on the highway than the Sequoia that and we get 28mpg at 80mph vs 16mpg with the Sequoia. The old 4spd 4.6L 93 J80 we got 12-13mpg and that was rarely doing 70mph.

 

[Box Rocket]

undoubtedly a refresh of the suspension will help with the ride quality. Personally I'm a fan of the OME suspension on the 80 and it's well known that it's a dramatic improvement over stock ride quality. You should probably check tie rod ends etc to make sure the steering system is as it should be. I can't speak to the speed/performance of the diesel motor.

 

[redthies]

I've owned a 96 FZJ 80, driven an Aussie 12 valve diesel manual 80, and currently drive a UZJ100 (V8 petrol). The 100 is far better for tarmac, but the use you described in your initial thread on your 80 says to me that you have the right tool for the job. I also am a fan of Old Man Emu in the 80 and 100 series. Re bushing at the time you put new coils and shock absorbers in will help a lot. The diesel is slow to be sure, but it makes up for it in range and reliability. Those two things are key in overland travel, and something most Rover 3.9s do not possess. Also, RMP&O is correct about most things, but do keep in mind that there are thousands of 80s with 2-2.5" suspension that do NOT suffer from major castor issues. Some do, most don't. You can also get castor cords toon bushes with your springs to put castor back to stock.

I think you need to sort out what exactly your priorities are, and then decide whether the 80 will deliver.

 

[RMP&O]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I've seen some of Andrew St Pierre-White's youtube videos but didn't realise he was in the UK! Might drop him a line, thanks.

RMP&O - it's actually quite a "young" truck; 21 years old, but only 1 owner from new and just 145,000 miles. Doesn't look like it's ever been offroad either, so I don't think it's had a hard life. Having said that, I expect things to wear out - I've replaced the front window seals already, for instance - but I just want to know if spending all this money on it will get me the truck I want, I guess!

I think you will have to decide that one on your own, the if it gets you the truck you want. Most people here are LC fans, some more than others and some have had lot's of other trucks too so in that regard you will get good advice here. But nobody can tell you if it will be the truck you want. To many variables. That doesn't sound like a hard life to me by your description, so who knows maybe you just don't care for the ride of the 80 and so forth.

I had an FJ60 (heavily built up) at the same time my buddy was building up his 80. I took a road trip with him in his 80 at the time, I was really impressed with how well it handled compared to my 60. So all I can really tell you is an 80 suspension wise is better than an FJ60 and my 60 was really good in that regard. Best leaf spring truck I have ever owned or riden in. Took me a lot of work and money to get there with my 80 but it is nearly as good now as any truck I have ever owned or driven.

As redthies says, you may not have any issues with a 2" lift in terms of castor and handling. I am just warning you that on these trucks, upgrades generally = can o' worms. My list is long in that regard but I am also super anal about my trucks and want them perfect.

Cheers