Advice needed for a newbie to high tech tools.

[daddyusmaximus]

I can read a map. I did 28 years in the Army and with a compass and a 1/50,000 map I can get anywhere. Problem is I never caught on the the GPS that was coming into use as I got close to retirement, and 1/50,000 military maps are impossible to come by. Also, you need a great many military 1/50,000 maps if you're going to travel far. I would like to go to other states on longer trips. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note II smart phone (Will be upgrading soon) and have used the Google maps on it. I am sure it has more features than I know how to use, and I want to learn more. I'm also looking to expand and get a tablet for the truck to use as an electronic map.
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The treads I have seen are experienced people trading info in language I don't understand. For example, people use the term "topo maps". I know what a "topographical map" is, but are people referencing the USGS topo maps, or some brand name of software? I am looking for a thread, or website, that explains the basics of using electronic maps to the uninitiated. I am interested in both road maps for highway and city travel, and would love to have an electronic version of the old military maps I know so well for off road travel. The topographical maps we used and the grid system of navigating was easy for me to pick up on. I know I will have to learn Lat-Long as well, but it seems there are two different versions of Lat-Long navigation. Which to use? The detail of the land contours and landmarks on a 1/50,000 military map made it great to see what the terrain looked like around me. I could tell when I was coming into steep terrain, or a wooded area, or a marsh. I would like a software program that offered similar info to what the military maps offered, if that is possible. They had ground contours, marked waterways, vegetation, built up areas... ect. You could tell the improved roads from the unimproved tracks. There were landmarks like water towers... Does such a mapping program exist?

 

[libarata]

1/50000 type maps seem to be going to the wayside anymore for the consumer. This is due to electronic maps having all of the layers/scales built into one another. Think of google maps. It has the scales down in a corner, and you just zoom in and out as you want more, or less info. As far as 'topo maps' I assume they are referring to topographical maps from USGS or other agencies, and not any single program or vendor.

As for what you are looking for, I find, http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=5/51.500/-0.100 has some good stuff. I downloaded ARCGIS to my iPad, and it includes open street stuff in it.

 

[JHa6av8r]

I learned DR and nap of the earth navigation using tactical pilotage charts (TPC) so I was familiar and comfortable with paper charts. I still carry an atlas and compass just in case the electronics fail me. That said I love using digital USGS topo maps and a GPS. I keep it simple with an iPad & Trimble Outdoors Pro. It has all the maps I need for planning and navigation. I plan on my laptop withTrimble Outdoors that syncs with the Trimble Outdoors Pro on my iPad.

Grid is available on those programs as is Lat/Long formats such as Hr:Min:Sec or Hours in decimal format which I find easier to use. If you're comfortable with a map & compass, it's just a matter of becoming familiar with mapping & navigation programs.

From one old guy to another, always have a paper back up.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Do you go somewhere to buy programs like "Trimble Outdoors Pro" or is it something you just download from the app store?

 

[AFBronco235]

You can usually download an app from the store. I run a Microsoft Surface 2 tablet with MapsPro for my mapping and navigation app. Probably the best and easiest to use combination for the money. The table uses Windows apps so its easy to use by itself and the MapsPro app is very user friendly. The variety of maps available to download is impressive. The developer just added forestry and topo maps to the listing. To use offline, you do have to zoom in on an area you'll be in and download the map. It allows you to basically download the pictures used by the app and store them for offline use. How far you can zoom in and scales depends on the map type. For road navigation, you can download road atlases after you've paid a $10 fee, though the fee may increase later. The maps you can use include the road maps, google terrain and road maps, nokia, open street maps, topography and forestry maps, ESRI, MapBox, Stamen, Bing and a few other terrain maps. And as I said, its very user friendly. If you have a problem, the guy who developed the app, and continues to develop it, likes to work directly with you to resolve a problem. I identified a small bug in the software earlier this week and he had it fixed by the next day.

This should give you an idea of how good the picture is. This is a google satellite map of an offroad park I went to last weekend. It lets you see most of the trails just fine.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

What about the device itself? Is the iPad better, or the Surface? I'm guessing this is like Ford v Chevy...

 

[kojackJKU]

NO its more like Chevette (ipad) and Ferrari (surface). The windows tablet is so far ahead of the apple or android. You can do so much more with the windows based tablets as their operating system is geared like a laptop, not a consumption device. I always tell people who are comparing all the systems is ipad is a consumption device, meaning its designed to feed you videos, books and music. The windows tablet is a production device. You can plug in your big hard drive, digital camera/video camera, card reader and everything all at once, Edit the photos and videos, print them off etc. All without extra dongles , and what not. You cannot use any extra storage with the ipad. Plus the keyboard with extra battery in my windows tablet is great. I get over 16hr of battery life from mine.

 

[robgendreau]

NO its more like Chevette (ipad) and Ferrari (surface). The windows tablet is so far ahead of the apple or android.

You can get the most capable portable device, a laptop, running a traditional computer OS like Windows or Mac OS. Running traditional computer programs. Or smaller netbooks, or combo devices, still running Windows, a traditional desktop OS now scaled for these smaller devices. Then smaller to tablets, where there are some Windows devices, although few, and mostly Android or iOS ones that work quite differently than a desktop computer. And these then scale down to phone sized devices. And finally, dedicated nav devices that run ONLY nav stuff that's preinstalled, like the handheld GPS units by DeLorme, Magellan, Garmin, etc. Whew.

No device is "better" in the abstract. I'd rather take four slobbering dogs and a load of garbage to the dump in that Chevette than that Ferrari, for example. If you need a computer for everything, then yeah, the Surface is great. Maybe not as good a value as a netbook and maybe you need a DVD player so maybe...well, you see. Or maybe a dedicated unit with maps, like the Garmin's et al. Waterproof? Shock resistant? Mountable on handlebars on an ATV? Depends.

Basically most of the online or computer map solutions are variations on what you are familiar with. There are two general types of computer maps, sort of like computer graphics. One kind is sort of like a photo of a paper map, or a scan, or a photo you take with a camera: a bunch of pixels in a mosaic to show an area. Could be like AAA maps or topo maps or a nautical chart. That is then georeferenced, so that a coordinate system like lat/long is associated with points on that map. So you can find a particular place. They are often tiled up; the computer knows you're looking for an area, and goes into it's storage and fetches that map. It might even overlay maps of different scales, and bring up one or the other as you zoom. These are called raster maps.

The second kind of map, common with the nav units in cars, are vector maps. These aren't like photos. The map info is mathematically described; a road is essentially a curve described in a space. It's easier to scale, and to work with things like route directions dynamically. And it takes up less storage space. So it's used in some handheld GPS units and cars, especially in situations where you see your progress moving along.

Lat/long is still used a lot, as you can see from Google. UTM is a grid system you may be more familiar with from military applications, but the principles are very similar.

And of course maps matter. What works for a cross country trip on highways stinks at hiking cross country. Different scales, different objects you wanna see on the map. Take a look at www.caltopo.com. It can show you the type of stuff that's out there.

Since you have a perfectly capable device, the Note, don't buy anything else. Just start with that. I think Motion X, Gaia GPS, and Backcountry Navigator all might work on your device. Try one out. Or look at their websites; they have info on how they work. You can start out just using it to work like a fancy compass with a paper map you already are familiar with. Any of these can give you lat/long and you can plot it on your paper map. And then go the other direction, from a map waypoint to one entered in your Note. Then use the Note like a compass to go there, maybe in tandem with your paper map. You'll soon see that there isn't really that much difference conceptually.

 

[kojackJKU]

DVD player for the windows based tablets is just a USB drive away. Something else you can't do with the ipad or any android device. If the person is truly looking for a one device for everything, The windows based tablets are second to none. Portable, long long battery life, USB devices all work, You can get waterproof cases for most anyone, etc. There is pretty well nothing mine can't do. I have LTE connection and can make phone calls etc from mine as well. Having the note 2, Get backcountry NAV for it. It works great. Put it in a dash mount and your good to go.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I have downloaded Back Country Navigator for now and will play with that for a while. Only opened up the app a couple times so far, still lost as to how to use it...

 

[libarata]

Check out youtube, or even call the folks who made it. If you are patient with them, I am sure they will gladly help. Or, better yet, go stalking around the nearest college, and nail one of those leeches down to help you.

 

[kojackJKU]

Its not that hard once you use it for a few hrs. I sat down one afternoon with a few beer and had it nailed down.