You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away...

[GCAdventurer]

So at what point in the lifespan of your rig do you call it quits and send your rig to pasture?

My van is now climbing over the 10 year mark and over 228,000km and enduring life in the rust belt and really starting to show it. It's not the body thats giving away...yet, but it seems as if the head gasket has bit the bullet. With this incredible cold we have had to endure this month I have seen the temp gauge spike quite high on occasion and have to shut down and put the fans on max to reign it in. Recently I have had to top up the rad with over 2.5L of coolant, there seemed to be a black swirl in the coolant when I tested it with a hydrometer (there are NO external leaks) and when I did the last oil change only 4.5L came out and 5.25L went back in. I have only seen it smoke once upon start up but if on the road and you have to punch it hard, she will get mad and let out a noticeable puff.
If my gut feeling is right and it is the head gasket, thats a several hundred dollar job....the rig it only worth about a grand right now...do I keep pumping in money hoping nothing else lets go? Or finally call it a day? On top of that, this is the worst timing financially to have to do this repair or replace the van...
I don't expect much response to this, I've been trolling this form more than I'd like to admit (mostly drooling over some of your rigs posted in here) and only rarely contributing to other threads, but just needed a place to vent.

 

[SoCal Tom]

When its not worth the money to make it reliable. It appears yours is also a DD, so it needs to work everyday. 10 years isn't that old anymore, and 150K miles ( 228KM) is at a point where some extra maintenance and repairs are due. But its not usually the end of life for new cars. What's the resale value with and without the head gasket repairs? If you do the head gasket repairs, what other repairs should be done over the next 12 months to make it reliable? Is it in your budget to make that investment? Will you get another 5 worry free years out of it if you make the investment? ( cause if you don't then you will probably be making payments on something else for 5 more years). Which leaves you more money for exploration?
Tom

 

[AFBronco235]

Its definitely a head gasket and needs replaced ASAP to prevent worse damage!

It also depends on how much you have invested in your rig vs. how much you'll have to invest in a new rig. My 91' Bronco is over twice as old as your van, at 24. I paid $5k for the base vehicle and put another $2k in upgrades and add-ons into it. I'm also a mechanic by hobby and trade so a head gasket replacement is more like a good day of fun to me. IMO, you should invest in learning how to turn a wrench if you're going to own any non-standard vehicle. Actually, owning any vehicle, but with an overlanding rig, its essential in case of breakdowns.

The way I see it, if there isn't anything else majorly wrong with your rig, you should go ahead and keep it and do one of several options.

1. Just replace the head gasket yourself and keep driving it. You may develop other problems down the road, but if you tackle them early on, and your head gasket leak is getting bad enough that you should take care of it soon btw, you can actually save more money than you would buying and building a new rig.

2. Buy a separate DD for cheap and turn your van into a dedicated adventure rig, Start with a complete inspection from top to bottom. Pull the motor and do a moderate rebuild, or even upgrade to a newer engine. Of course, my bronco is my trail rig and my DD and hasn't needed any sort of major maintenance other than replacing a couple of leaking axle seals. The fact of the matter is, older vehicles do need more care, but if you can do it yourself, you realize how much cheaper it is to maintain them than to buy a new vehicle.

3. You can keep it and just drive it into the ground. Resale value on customized vehicles is always lower than a stock vehicle, simply because the new owner usually ends up removing whatever customizations you've added to suit its new purpose, so selling it won't really gain back much of your investment anyways, especially with that leak.

Seriously, I never understand why anybody would never learn how to work on his or her own vehicles when they have to depend on them. A head gasket isn't all the complicated. Can you turn a wrench? Can you read numbers? If you said yes to both, chances are, you're qualified to perform 90% of the repairs on any vehicle out there.

Okay, I'll get off my wagon and offer a solid solution.

Step 1. Buy a repair manual for your vehicle. Haynes or Chilton seems to be the best manuals out there and written for the home garage mechanic in mind. Great for beginners with lots of pictures. Step 2. Acquire the tools needed to make your repair. That can be an investment in itself, unless you have a buddy with a garage full of tools. The tools needed will depend on the vehicle, but I don't think it should be much more than a basic socket wrench set, a torque wrench and some screwdrivers but check your repair manual for specifics. (BTW, tools are not an expense, but an investment.) 3. Get the parts you need. A simple head gasket shouldn't be much. Certainly less than the hundreds you think a shop would cost you. Any parts store should have it in stock or be able to get it for you. 4. Get a buddy with experience. Even if you study the manual diligently, you'll probably run into some outside the manual and need an assist, or even just a guy to run to the store with you to replace that bolt you just rounded off. Step 5. Get your hands dirty. Since its so cold where you are now, you'll want a shelter or garage to work in, preferably with a heater. Just use the manual, do as it says, use a little common sense and you should be able to get that gasket replaced in a single day with a buddy. Two days if you have beer handy.

That is honestly the cheapest and most effective advice I can offer you for your situation. Hope it helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have for the repairs if you go that route. Lots of mechanic types around here. Heck, you may even find a guy near you with a shop who'll help you out.

 

[GCAdventurer]

I've had the van since it was 1 year old and only 15,000km, it is my adventure rig and my DD. I've turned wrench on it for every issue and its only EVER been in the shop for warranty work and A/C work. The issue I'm dealing with is the current worth of it vs. cost of repair vs. cost of next possible major repair. I'm worried about the fact that if something is rotten with the A/C system and it gets disturbed while diving into the engine and I loose the air, the van is pretty much useless as only the front windows go down (and only rear vent windows open) and it will be just a sweat box for mid and rear passengers, mainly the kids. If that happens its a tow to the scrap yard. Or the tranny could go anytime as it's a known Chrysler issue. Like I said before, I live in the rust belt so after 10 years of these conditions, the body is showing signs and that has negatively affected resale, its possible to get $1000 for it now if I trade up. As for mods to it, unlike most rigs on this site, there really isn't much aftermarket stuff for Grand Caravans and most of the stuff I've done has been my own creation so I'm not worried about how much money I've invested in upgrades.
Maybe its time to let go, my dealer is offering almost $10,000 off the sticker price of a new van and thats without haggling!
In any case, tomorrow I will do a compression test, to see how bad things really are and go from there.
I will post the results for those that may be interested.

 

[rayra]

Head gasket is an easy and affordable fix IF YOU DON'T KEEP TOPPING THINGS OFF AND CONTINUE DRIVING IT.

350k mi on my '85 C-10. Finally burned up the top end of the original motor at ~300k mi due to neglectful oversight, went into a huge sweeping highway interchange at high speed, high RPM with about 2wts of oil in the pan, starved it, burned it up. Beyond that, I've wrenched on just about everything on that pickup over the years. Just had the trans rebuilt for the second time, a year ago. That was the last big straw for it and when I started my search in earnest for my next vehicle, my '02 Suburban which I just got a few months ago.

The last 1-2mos of that search I was driving that pickup pretty hard, traveling far and wide to look at vehicles. 120mi round trips to kick tires were a necessary thing to find the things I was looking for. But unfortunately it lead to this:

If I wasn't already in the process of prepping that pickup for sale, I would be now. Just got a 'close enough' exhaust manifold from a junkyard yesterday. Same series casting, different year. Have to plug some fittings.

A few more things to do so I can pass CA smog again and I can sell it off to some optimist.

 

[rayra]

Put another way -
When you have to start scavenging for parts from the wrecking yard because factory parts are becoming near impossible to find in the supply chain, or prohibitively expensive.

/that's if you've got any mechanical skill at all. The time is much sooner if you don't

 

[Black Dog]

I sent my old XJ to pasture when I was test driving it after doing one fix only to have it break down for another reason.

 

[98dango]

14 year old 230k lifted for 50 and I would not sell it for any thing.

1967 scout getting a full rebuild.

 

[Crom]

I sent my old XJ to pasture when I was test driving it after doing one fix only to have it break down for another reason.

lol

 

[4x4x4doors]

NBC Today ran a piece this morning saying that the time to replace automobile is when repair cost is greater than or equal to 50% value of the repaired vehicle.

 

[Eaglefreek]

I have 4 vehicles and the newest is 16 years old(not including the dirt bike). However, none have been in the rust belt and don't think I could handle that. All my cars are pretty much 100% rust free. If you can't do the work yourself, it makes it that much tougher to hold on to an older vehicle.

 

[GCAdventurer]

By the time I fixed the head gasket and everything else that needs attention, the repairs far outweigh the cost of the vehicle. Head Gasket, A/C Compressor Clutch, Rear A/C H Valve, Parking Brake Shoes, Sliding door lock mechanism, 2 tires, and find and replace whatever is clunking in the front end plus the body work, that adds up to a good downpayment for a new vehicle, so that's what I did. I needed something to carry the five of us with baby stroller and all, something to work out of occasionally and something to camp in from time to time (without the kids) and off-road capability really didn't matter too much to this pavement pounder so I opted for another van, 2015 Grand Caravan. Besides the lack of any off-road capability (which I am fine with) this is the most versatile rig for my needs.
If only cost wasn't an issue, I would have grabbed a new Sprinter 4x4 as the local dealer has a couple on the lot, but thats life...

 

[rayra]

Bigger associated issue is whether the vehicle is your daily driver. Project or 'fun' vehicle, it doesn't matter nearly as much. But when every day you are racking up miles on something with increasingly rare or difficult to find parts, it gets to be pretty tedious. Especially when the hump comes where you are spending more time wrenching on a vehicle than you spend driving it.

Case in point, I suffered a failure of an exhaust manifold on my '85 C-10. Had been changing gaskets often, chasing exhaust leaks. Then I flogged it around for a bit last Fall shopping for its replacement, my '02 Suburban. Somewhere in there it got very loud. Parked it while I worked on my 'new' Sub, started regularly driving the Sub but finally got around to working the pickup and discovered the manifold casting was crazed with cracks, swollen under the sheet metal pre-heat riser shroud with a finger size hole blown right thru it. Naturally the casting number was in the crazed damaged area, unreadable. Searched far adn wide for likely replacements to no avail. Started scouring the big wrecking yards near me. Best I could do was 'close', out of the pickup I pictured above. I just posted the following showing what I had to go thru to get this truck running again.

I just finished hacking up a blown out exhaust manifold on my pickup to making a custom fitting adapter for my smog equipment on a close-match junkyard replacement manifold. The 'new' part had four small smog pipettes, the original had one large one, I'm on a very tight budget so I had to come up with something and no joy finding a 5/8" fine thread fitting that would match my smog plumbing. So I chopped the port out of the old one and reworked everything with a brass 3/8" NPT close nipple fitting to tie it all together. I MacGyvered the crap out of that thing, running fine now.

 

[Yarjammer]

I call it quits as soon as it stops putting a smile on my face. Sometimes it's after a series of small repairs early in its life or when I've dumped thousands more than its worth into it late in life. No matter what, I'll never eat ramen or ask my family to cut back on their lifestyle to selfishly afford keeping any vehicle running. My '94 FZJ80 put me in this position and I had to make the painfully tough decision to let it go after 300k miles and 16yrs together.

From reading your posts, I think you know what the right thing to do is. Stop throwing good money after bad- especially when you are already feeling a bit of financial strain. I've been there and the stress of wondering when (not if) the next thing will break will really wear on you. The moment you start taking the most direct route home and opting out of certain trips for fear of facing a large towing bill or expensive repair is when you fold 'em and walk away.