Going domestic, project vanilla aka the family tankster, 2004 Suburban 2500
- Thread starter upcruiser
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snowblind
Adventurer
Living with some of the nickel and dimeing right now. In the previous two years I've replaced the fuel pump and the crank position sensor @ roughly $500 each time. I had planned a replacing a leaky steering box hoses this summer but now my A/C compressor bit the bullet and I have to replace that and some belts and tensioners at roughly $1000. CV axels have been making some noises recently also. $200 for parts and I'll install them myself.
Repairs can be frustrating but if you plan to keep the vehicle the repairs buy additional piece of mind. And some things can be put off for quite a while. My leaky steering box only bugs me when it leaves drips in the driveway. If I park in the street it's all good
Matt
justcuz
Explorer
HVAC switches are a common problem and easy fix. Check out YouTube.
Install a Nippondenso gear reduction starter and never worry about it again. Expensive but long lasting.
Idler arms an all steering issues are lack of maintenance. Lube your fittings with each oil change and after any serious off road trip. 264,000 on my factory idler arm, but gets lubed every 3,000 miles or any trip with more than 100 off road miles.
Like stated earlier, these vehicles are used heavily and neglected, with proper care they are as good as, or better than many other vehicles out there...Toyotas included.
I have driven lots of Toyotas that have been used hard and put away wet and they have reliability problems too.
I also had a buddy that had an FJ55 wagon that was very well maintained and was quiet and solid the entire time he owned it.
Another vote for Husky liners, they don't skid around like others. Look online for deals, you can find them for much less than retail.
Common issues are interior electronic switches and relays and window lifts. Under the hood are water pumps, alternators, fan clutches and power steering pumps. Keep your injectors clean by running some cleaner through every season. Chassis issues are steering stuff (if not maintained), front axle engagement motors, t-case shifter motors and fuel pumps. That's about it as I recall.
Most of this stuff can be avoided by good eyeballing and maintanance. Idler pulleys occasionally wear out, and AC compressors sit low so keep them as clean as possible to keep connectors from corroding. Same with crank triggers. A friend with a live scan tool will save you tons of money diagnosing trouble and fixing only what's wrong.
Install a Nippondenso gear reduction starter and never worry about it again. Expensive but long lasting.
Idler arms an all steering issues are lack of maintenance. Lube your fittings with each oil change and after any serious off road trip. 264,000 on my factory idler arm, but gets lubed every 3,000 miles or any trip with more than 100 off road miles.
Like stated earlier, these vehicles are used heavily and neglected, with proper care they are as good as, or better than many other vehicles out there...Toyotas included.
I have driven lots of Toyotas that have been used hard and put away wet and they have reliability problems too.
I also had a buddy that had an FJ55 wagon that was very well maintained and was quiet and solid the entire time he owned it.
Another vote for Husky liners, they don't skid around like others. Look online for deals, you can find them for much less than retail.
Common issues are interior electronic switches and relays and window lifts. Under the hood are water pumps, alternators, fan clutches and power steering pumps. Keep your injectors clean by running some cleaner through every season. Chassis issues are steering stuff (if not maintained), front axle engagement motors, t-case shifter motors and fuel pumps. That's about it as I recall.
Most of this stuff can be avoided by good eyeballing and maintanance. Idler pulleys occasionally wear out, and AC compressors sit low so keep them as clean as possible to keep connectors from corroding. Same with crank triggers. A friend with a live scan tool will save you tons of money diagnosing trouble and fixing only what's wrong.
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upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
I am in bad need of updating this thread! I don't spend as much time online as I used to now that I have a coulle of kiddos. First off, thanks to everyone who has contributed info on here. It's all appreciated as this platform is so new to me. The truck had become a favorite to the family and we have had some great adventures with it. We were planning a grand two month trip this spring but we ended up not going as we decided to sell our house, buy a new one and all the fun involved in moving. That said, the new place has two garages including a heated shop so I am stoked now to be able to work on projects in the winter which was not an option at our old house. As of now we are planning a big trip for next spring, trying to decide where yet though. So I have a lot of time to dial things in which is good because I have a bunch of stuff I need to do with the other projects in the garage. Anyway, here are some pics from our adventures this spring and summer, mostly dragging our camper to base camp for mountain biking and paddling. We did some day trip stuff as well just bombing around in the dirt, nothing to extreme but have gotten a good feel for the truck's strengths and weaknesses. I will get to those shortly.
Before we decided to buy the new house we spent 2 weeks bumming around the UP and visiting family in the northern lower peninsula. This was s shakedown of sorts to see what we would need to do for the big trip when loaded with our gear and dragging the camper. This is from one of our favorite campgrounds in the Hiawatha National Forest that has mountain bike trails and a bunch of Great Lakes and rivers to paddle.
Before we decided to buy the new house we spent 2 weeks bumming around the UP and visiting family in the northern lower peninsula. This was s shakedown of sorts to see what we would need to do for the big trip when loaded with our gear and dragging the camper. This is from one of our favorite campgrounds in the Hiawatha National Forest that has mountain bike trails and a bunch of Great Lakes and rivers to paddle.
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
One thing we love about the Burb is how it swallows gear. Here is how two bikes fit in the back. I hate subjecting bikes to road grime, mud, and foul weather so keeping them inside was a key part of going with a Suburban.
From Copper Harbor, late summer, great place to base amp and ride
Braaap
Two tracking, this is the stuff I remember loving when I was a little guy
Fall outing crashing a friend's camp in the Hiawatha National Forest
Taking the camper where few have gone before ;-)
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
Sorry about all the pics but I don't do trip reports on here anymore and that's what this rig is all about anyway, the adventures and memories. So I pulled off the brush guard and repainted it as a preventative measure. Midwest winters make things rusty and I wanted to keep it from looking crappy right away. I also got around to removing the running boards as well. That helped a ton as they were susceptible to everything with such a long wheelbase. My wife was on crutches after ankle reconstruction this spring so we left them on for awhile. Now they are off I think it looks a ton better too. I prepped the bottom of the truck and sprayed on a stone chip protector. With the running boards gone and not wanting to install mud flaps, I wanted a way to protect the paintwork from stone chips, then the eventual rust that results. The stone guard is clear and you can't see it unless you are right next to it, and actually looking for the seam. It basically runs an inch below the body trim all the way back to the back bumper and under the rockers.
We did some bumping around in the Huron Mountains, one of the largest undeveloped areas of the state
I don't have many pics of the truck in action because, well, I am driving usually. Here are a couple of pics though showing about the max articulation the rig has with the sways attached, which isn't much haha.
It doesn't flex much but with the G80 and the long wheelbase's ability to span things that normally aren't spanable, it is surprisingly drama free.
As it sits right now. That brush guard is impressively heavy duty, and as much as I dislike the wrap around style, it would save the front end in an animal strike which is a real threat up here with deer, moose, and the like. My thoughts at this point and future plans next.
We did some bumping around in the Huron Mountains, one of the largest undeveloped areas of the state
I don't have many pics of the truck in action because, well, I am driving usually. Here are a couple of pics though showing about the max articulation the rig has with the sways attached, which isn't much haha.
It doesn't flex much but with the G80 and the long wheelbase's ability to span things that normally aren't spanable, it is surprisingly drama free.
As it sits right now. That brush guard is impressively heavy duty, and as much as I dislike the wrap around style, it would save the front end in an animal strike which is a real threat up here with deer, moose, and the like. My thoughts at this point and future plans next.
onemanarmy
Explorer
thanks for sharing the pics. Pretty sure my next tires are gonna be the Grabber AT2 in 285/75/16.
How are they doing for you? How many miles are on them?
How are they doing for you? How many miles are on them?
Your truck looks great. I am just now beginning the hunt for an NBS 2500 SUV. They're difficult to find, especially rust-free in the Midwest! The search continues... I joined here for ideas related to stealth camping and storage, as I intend to use the one I find similarly
Mind if I ask how many miles were on it when you purchased it? I didn't see it in the original post. Looks like it is serving you well and in a trouble-free way!
One note about the rocker protection: These 00-06 trucks rust along the rockers usually from the inside out as crud builds up in the rockers, so make sure your drain holes along the rockers aren't covered by the spray you used! This is why all the guys with rhino-lined rockers are essentially dooming themselves further... kind of ironic, isn't it?
Mind if I ask how many miles were on it when you purchased it? I didn't see it in the original post. Looks like it is serving you well and in a trouble-free way!
One note about the rocker protection: These 00-06 trucks rust along the rockers usually from the inside out as crud builds up in the rockers, so make sure your drain holes along the rockers aren't covered by the spray you used! This is why all the guys with rhino-lined rockers are essentially dooming themselves further... kind of ironic, isn't it?
dman93
Adventurer
Quick question ... with the bikes mounted as you show them, and with the second and third row seats removed, is there room for a couple to sleep next to and ahead of the bikes? Plus maybe have some gear stowed inside as well? I'm looking for the ideal rig for me and wife, two bikes (29-ers not fatties) with everything transported inside and comfortable sleeping. Oh yeah, not a Sprinter. Right now we have an extended cab mid-size truck (6' bed) with FlipPac, which lets us sleep above the bikes and gear, but I'm looking at options. I drove a 2014 Suburban 1500 rental and loved it. Thanks!
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
I like them. I have about 4,000 miles on them. They seem pretty similar in dirt performance to a BFG AT so far. I ran the BFG AT's on several rigs in the past but it would be hard for me to make a more direct comparison without doing some sort of side by side since the weight and size of this truck is so different from the ones I ran them on (Trooper, Discovery I, FJ60). They are quiet on the road which is nice. In sand and mud, as would be expected from an AT, they struggle a bit. I haven't had them on snow much yet so we will see about that. Going from a load range E to a load range D with these tires I did find the ride to be a bit more compliant, yet in heavy cornering, I don't feel like the sidewalls were deflecting any more than the load range E's. They are pretty confident inspiring. I know some people bag on these tires due to them being 2 ply vesus 3 ply with the BFG's and some other AT's but the thickness of each ply is quite a bit more than the BFG and the actual sidewall thickness is about the same. Thus the reason you don't hear about sidewall punctures or failures with them. Personally I think they are a fantastic value for the price and will probably stick with them down the road.
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
I hear you about finding stuff that isn't rusted. I was willing to fly somewhere to find the right, rust free truck. I just lucked out and found this Texas truck in lower Michigan and hadn't seen a winter yet. It had around 135,000 on the clock when I bought it. The mileage didn't scare me, and when I met the seller and he showed me his binder of all the work he did since he bought it and the completely meticulous way his garage/shop looked, in addition to the the condition of the Suburban, I felt very confident in the purchase. Thing is, they sold alot of these trucks, so don't feel like you have to settle for something that isn't quite to your standards. I paid a bit of a premium for ours but I feel that probably saved me more in preventative upkeep and baselining if I would have bought one from someone else. For example, he had basically gone through and replaced all the fluids and check/replaced all the belts and hoses. Really left me nothing to do after buying it other than hunting down all the dryer sheets and mothballs he had stashed around the truck to prevent mice from getting into it as he stored it last winter. haha
Thanks for the heads up on the drain holes, I will crawl under it and check them out. I think it would be easy to open them up if they are plugged. I was trying to prevent the all too common issue of stones removing the paint from the rear rockers that you seem to see on these trucks. With more time off pavement I figured it would go a long way in preventing bare metal, and even preventing some pinstriping down there.
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
Depending on how tall you and the other person are.... yes. So with the second row seats in, I have about 5.5 feet from the back door to the bottom of the second row seats. Less at the top as the seats are reclined back slightly. With the second row fold forward I have over 8 feet. I haven't measured it, but I have hauled sheets of plywood in the back with room to spare. If you removed the second row seats that would free you up even more space up to the back of the first row. I don't have the measurements across the second row from door to door, but I am pretty sure at 6 foot tall I wouldn't be able to lie straight across sideways there. There is plenty of width to where the bikes are mounted to sleep for sure either in front of them or to the side. You could probably sleep two people if you staggered head to toe along side the two bikes. I find I have to move the mounts around depending on whether I am hauling mountain bikes, road bikes, or fatbikes due to handlebar widths, and wheelbases but as long as I am fork mounting them I haven't had any issues fitting any bike I wanted back there. I also don't have to drop the seat posts which is nice. Having driven the more recent generation of Suburbans, I feel like there is a bit less space back there but don't have the specs to confirm that. They feel a bit less tall and the packaging over the wheel wells is a bit more confining. Sure you could probably fit anything you need in one though as they are still cavernous.
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
Ok, some thoughts about the truck...
Things I like...
Comfort. Despite being a 3/4 ton truck it is incredibly comfortable and its one of the only vehicles I have had that I can spend all day in the driver's seat and not feel fatigue. We want to use it for everything but find ourselves forcing ourselves to use our Outback just for the sake of economy.
Bring anything, bring everything. No matter what activity we are doing on a given day, we can just throw everything in with no issue. This summer we would have bikes, a chariot, beach stuff, paddling stuff, kids stuff in the back behind the second row and would have no issues with space. You have to be a terrible packer to exhaust the storage space in one of these things.
Barn doors rule.. This is personal to people depending on their wants/needs but the ambulance doors on the burb rock. They let me haul kayaks or canoes on the roof, lumber even and be able to open the back doors still. I load my canoe to one side so I can open one of the back doors and still be able to get everything in or out. Thats key when camping because sometimes you want to keep the canoe on there so you can setup camp, then go put in somewhere other than where your camp is. If we stick a RTT on top it will also let us open it towards the rear and have the ability to open the back doors under the tent and cook out of the back which I like. The Land Cruiser's split gate hatch allows this too, but I imagine the ambulance doors on the Burb will provide a bit of windprotection when cooking.
Highway mileage..... It isn't too bad. Unloaded and driving two lane highways (we are 3 hours from a freeway in any direction) I see 16-18mpg. Thats driving around 60mph in no particular hurry. It is very sensitive to the throttle and its easy to drop that number to 12-14 though. I find that great though for a 6500 pound vehicle with such huge capacities.
The G80... It has a bad rap but for overland type of stuff is reasonably suitable. It is mindless, engages when needed and provides real traction. If I was doing stuff more than moderate in difficulty, I would prefer a selectable locker, but then again, I probably wouldn't want to be doing anything more than moderately difficult with this truck anyway.
Towing.... these things have a reputation for being great tow rigs, deservedly so, this thing is unaffected by crosswinds, and even rides great with our camper loaded and dragging along. The 6.0 works great for what we are towing and being close to sea level. This truck has 4.10's so that makes a real difference though. Will be interesting to see how it does in the mountains towing in the future.
Looks.... this one is subjective too, but I like the slightly rounded, soft lines, I think this gen, and the previous gen Suburbans look classy, clean, and lack that whole body cladding, trying to look tough styling that alot of 4x4's have utilized in the past 15 years or so. It blends in nice, is very stealthy and due to the cargo capacity, you don't have to strap your gear all over the thing advertising yourself to everyone. I dig that. I don't personally dig the attention you get driving certain rigs that end up being flashy when kitted out. Under the radar is a nice place to fly.
Payload.... is never, ever a concern. Nice to have options and no that at least for travelling and car camping, you are never, ever going to approach it.
Range.... Having nearly 40 gallons of fuel is pretty sweet, and needed when towing but for poking around offroad its nice to have the range. Highway driving it seems I have 500-550miles of range if I am taking it easy. I don't feel the need to bring jerry cans like I have with other vehicles.
Parts are really inexpensive.... I might have to replace things more often than say the Land Cruiser but pretty much everything I need is at any of my local autoparts stores, and this would be the case pretty much anywhere in North America we could travel.
Serviceablity.. most everything I have dealt with on the truck so far makes it seem that overall, not for everything obviously, stuff is pretty easy to work on, on these trucks. Lots of room in the engine compartment and stuff is pretty easy to get to.
Solid drivetrain.... This truck burns no noticeable amount of oil, it runs smooth, it runs quiet, and still has probably my second favorite engine note (the small block V8, versus an aircooled flat six..... ok... and a flatplaned crank V8 too I guess) Towing our camper on some interstate and in some heavy winds and steep grades, the tranny temp stays on the cool side and it feels good knowing the 4L80E's are pretty stout.
The not quite good:
drive by wire throttle.... My 2004 has this and it is one of my biggest gripes with the truck. It has what I would call terrible modulation. Off throttle to light throttle is like an on off switch. It makes it hard not to be jerky when in 4 low and trying to modulate the throttle on rough terrain. It even drives me nuts in 2 hi just trying to ease it into my garage. I imagine the earlier trucks with the drive by throttle cable technology don't have this. Where I feel like this is a pretty good analogue vehicle overall, its the encroachment of this kind of stuff that turns me off from alot of modern trucks.
the little things.... I don't know if its the quality of the aftermarket accessory parts that you get at the autoparts stores at those previously mentioned low prices or perhaps bad design to begin with but various light bulbs, dash lights and my HVAC blower motor have had to be replaced. Quite a few light bulbs, maybe it was just time for all of them to fail around a 1 month period but wow. The blower was easy to replace, thankful that I don't have the auto climate control HAVAC that some of these were optioned with. Those seem to be headaches to owners. Interior components do feel cheap, like window switches, and some of the dash buttons. The exterior door handle surrounds are super chinzy and I imagine how much moisture and junk gets down in there. But then again, this thing is solely rooted in its HD work truck origins, so I don't really mind that stuff. It keeps things honest a bit, a touch of luxury, but wearing a worn denim jacket.
around town economy..... well... it stinks frankly. Consider it an effect of physics and moving this much mass but in my around town endeavors, 10mpg is about where its at. This is also my average mpg's when towing our 23 foot camper on the highway. No one buys a 3/4 ton Suburban for running errands around town, so its a mute point, but figured for daily stuff, people might want to know. I don't have a commute, so we pretty much just use the Suburban for recreation and maybe hauling things for home improvement projects.
Its cumbersome offroad.... fo figure right? Yeah its big, but visibility is pretty good really other than the fact it just has a giant foot print. Where my old Discovery felt somewhat telepathic in its ability to find a good line and give you a feel for where the tires were, the Burb just kind of plunders along. Due to its size, weight, and ride (more on this next) I find myself having to drive two tracks and rough dirt roads notably slower than I would in the Land Cruiser or in some of my other previous vehicles. The stiffness of the suspension including the swaybars makes for a bit of head bouncing when negotiating ruts, especially, ESPECIALLY at street tire pressure. This isn't a precision tool, thats the price for payload and cargo capacity. That said, it will get through more difficult obstacles with some careful line choice, a spotter or getting out more often to look, and care taken to the breakover angle.
The G80... yeah I know, I listed it above too, and while it is a useful traction aid, the way in which it engages is a little barbaric. It requires a certain amount of predetermined slip before it engages, so in places where you are trying to tip toe through carefully, it needs to loose traction, spin, then clunk, it engages abruptly. It works, it is helpful, but it lacks... let's say finesse.
Ride quality...... Is a bit rough when unloaded, or light loaded. This is a tradeoff for being able to haul a large payload and being truck based. Part of this is definitely my fault as I have yet to change out the shocks which are a bit past prime. Based on the recomendations in this thread I think Bilsteins will be in our future. Hopefully they take a bit of the harshness out of the ride along with some of the bounciness. For the most part highway driving its comfortable, but bad pavement and offpavement things are a bit rough at street psi. Airing down helps a ton with the ride so I would recommend onboard air being a priority even for moderate excursions off pavement. Again, keep in mind, my truck is 100% bones stock other than a little crank in the torsion bars and a set of 285's.
Lack of aftermarket.... Things like bumpers, lift kit options other than the 6" type stuff, sliders, skid plates, snorkels, etc.... People have retrofitted bumpers and snorkels from other vehicles to work, but you don't get those kind of nice options as you would get with most Jeeps or Toyotas. You have to get creative or build your own with alot of the needs in the offroad realm. Not judging, or bagging on anyone, but my perception of most lifted Suburbans are street queens or rigs on giant tires mud bogging. Not as many K series rigs exploring off the beaten path as say the old square body trucks. I would love a nice, say 3" lift for my Burb to get me a bit more tire clearance as I rub a touch at full stuff with the wheels turned. Plus it would be nice to have the belly up a bit higher to assist the breakover angle.
Underbody... Things aren't exactly tucked up in the frame rails on these trucks. The transmission cross brace hangs annoyingly low unerneath the frame. The e brake cables dangle uncomfortably low. The rear shock mounts look brown to take abuse from the way they hang below the axle. There are no skid plates on these trucks, just some plastic sheilding. Under body protection would be a good investment for peace of mind.
Stuff I need to address:
I had the CEL on and after scanning discovered it was the code for the knock senors. It popped on the last time I was towing our camper and I turned it off. Curious to see if it comes back on, hasn't yet after a couple of days. That said, the knock sensors are a bit notorious on the 2.4, 5.3, and 6.0 motors of this gen. They lie under the intake manifold in the valley. They tend to corrode due to water in the valley collecting around them. Kind of a poor design and you need to remove the fuel rails and intake to get to them, but not an overly difficult thing to fix. Going to prolong it a bit if I can but looks like I will need to address that in the near future, probably this winter when I get a couple of free days and the weather is nasty. Sounds like a good fix is to make a little berm of silicone around the wells for the sensors when you replace them, and it will keep water from hanging out around them.
Shocks as mentioned above, planning to do those this winter, going with the Bilsteins, after you guys talked me out of the Ranchos. The more I read up, seems like the more happy people I found running them.
Thats about it for now unless any other preventative stuff pops up over the winter. While we did postpone trip plans this past summer for our big move, we are in fact planning stuff for next year. I think we are both missing the mountains and desert pretty hard right now so thinking a spring trip to AZ/southern Utah with some backcountry skiing, probably in Colorado might be in the works. We were talking about an Alaskan spring trip but with our little ones so young, camping in the spring on a trip up to AK would be a little more aggressive than we would like to do right now. Our other big trip we are planning to do is a lap through Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland. Thinking thats going to be a late August or probably early September trip, probably not next year but the following.
We sold our medium sized RTT with our FJ Cruiser and are planning to pickup a large sized unit at some point for trips where we are traveling light (relatively, this is a Suburban after all) and setting up a kitchen in the back for the truck to use under the tent with the tent flipped out over the back of the truck. This would be for long trips where we didn't want to bring a canoe or kayaks. I think we could comfortably accommodate the whole fam this way. One of these cold winters we are going to put together a long haul down to Baja and enjoy some warm weather for a change up. We are winter people, but warm weather is good for the soul from time to time. haha Ok, that's about all I have for now. I do want to start putting together a critical spares list for big trips in the burb. If you guys have any suggestions, I would love to hear them.
Other thoughts.....
We are overall pretty stoked with our choice of vehicle so far. Its pretty much fact that no one rig exists that perfectly meets every need, everything has some fault or another. The Burb seems to be a great overall compromise if you have a family and need space and you want a fantastic rig to travel in with the ability to get to most places you really need to get to. Its not Expo cool, and honestly that is a part of why I think I like it. I hear these rants by avid fans of brand x about the heritage, character, even lifestyle of said brand. People go off pontificating on rants about heads of state riding around in their preferred 4wd, or maybe militant groups using them to overthrow governments, maybe its the talk of brand x was doing it all before brand Y. When its all said and done, the Suburban of all things trumps all these dumb posturing arguments. Yep, the modest Suburban, bare with me.... What is THE oldest, longest running model in the history of automobiles? The Suburban... since 1935 actually when it was introduced as a truck based utility vehicle, it wasn't 4wd then because, well, nothing was haha. The Suburban is... and I use this word with a bit of a cringe.... classless. Governmental officials, visiting heads of state, the Secret Service, folks in rurual areas, the military in various iterations over the years have used the Suburban for transporting dignitaries, to dragging things around the farm. It has always oozed utility even if its luxury has been emphasied more and more over the years, similar to pretty much every other major SUV type 4wd. Alot of people get hung up on the exotic, the things we can't have, a romantic notion about a marque with colonial conquest perhaps, but we have to look no further than what we have in our home market to find legendary stuff with a history and pedigree to rival anything else..... If that mattters to you... and it probably shouldn't ;-) Just poking a stick a bit, because that's what I enjoy doing.
Thanks for tagging along....
Things I like...
Comfort. Despite being a 3/4 ton truck it is incredibly comfortable and its one of the only vehicles I have had that I can spend all day in the driver's seat and not feel fatigue. We want to use it for everything but find ourselves forcing ourselves to use our Outback just for the sake of economy.
Bring anything, bring everything. No matter what activity we are doing on a given day, we can just throw everything in with no issue. This summer we would have bikes, a chariot, beach stuff, paddling stuff, kids stuff in the back behind the second row and would have no issues with space. You have to be a terrible packer to exhaust the storage space in one of these things.
Barn doors rule.. This is personal to people depending on their wants/needs but the ambulance doors on the burb rock. They let me haul kayaks or canoes on the roof, lumber even and be able to open the back doors still. I load my canoe to one side so I can open one of the back doors and still be able to get everything in or out. Thats key when camping because sometimes you want to keep the canoe on there so you can setup camp, then go put in somewhere other than where your camp is. If we stick a RTT on top it will also let us open it towards the rear and have the ability to open the back doors under the tent and cook out of the back which I like. The Land Cruiser's split gate hatch allows this too, but I imagine the ambulance doors on the Burb will provide a bit of windprotection when cooking.
Highway mileage..... It isn't too bad. Unloaded and driving two lane highways (we are 3 hours from a freeway in any direction) I see 16-18mpg. Thats driving around 60mph in no particular hurry. It is very sensitive to the throttle and its easy to drop that number to 12-14 though. I find that great though for a 6500 pound vehicle with such huge capacities.
The G80... It has a bad rap but for overland type of stuff is reasonably suitable. It is mindless, engages when needed and provides real traction. If I was doing stuff more than moderate in difficulty, I would prefer a selectable locker, but then again, I probably wouldn't want to be doing anything more than moderately difficult with this truck anyway.
Towing.... these things have a reputation for being great tow rigs, deservedly so, this thing is unaffected by crosswinds, and even rides great with our camper loaded and dragging along. The 6.0 works great for what we are towing and being close to sea level. This truck has 4.10's so that makes a real difference though. Will be interesting to see how it does in the mountains towing in the future.
Looks.... this one is subjective too, but I like the slightly rounded, soft lines, I think this gen, and the previous gen Suburbans look classy, clean, and lack that whole body cladding, trying to look tough styling that alot of 4x4's have utilized in the past 15 years or so. It blends in nice, is very stealthy and due to the cargo capacity, you don't have to strap your gear all over the thing advertising yourself to everyone. I dig that. I don't personally dig the attention you get driving certain rigs that end up being flashy when kitted out. Under the radar is a nice place to fly.
Payload.... is never, ever a concern. Nice to have options and no that at least for travelling and car camping, you are never, ever going to approach it.
Range.... Having nearly 40 gallons of fuel is pretty sweet, and needed when towing but for poking around offroad its nice to have the range. Highway driving it seems I have 500-550miles of range if I am taking it easy. I don't feel the need to bring jerry cans like I have with other vehicles.
Parts are really inexpensive.... I might have to replace things more often than say the Land Cruiser but pretty much everything I need is at any of my local autoparts stores, and this would be the case pretty much anywhere in North America we could travel.
Serviceablity.. most everything I have dealt with on the truck so far makes it seem that overall, not for everything obviously, stuff is pretty easy to work on, on these trucks. Lots of room in the engine compartment and stuff is pretty easy to get to.
Solid drivetrain.... This truck burns no noticeable amount of oil, it runs smooth, it runs quiet, and still has probably my second favorite engine note (the small block V8, versus an aircooled flat six..... ok... and a flatplaned crank V8 too I guess) Towing our camper on some interstate and in some heavy winds and steep grades, the tranny temp stays on the cool side and it feels good knowing the 4L80E's are pretty stout.
The not quite good:
drive by wire throttle.... My 2004 has this and it is one of my biggest gripes with the truck. It has what I would call terrible modulation. Off throttle to light throttle is like an on off switch. It makes it hard not to be jerky when in 4 low and trying to modulate the throttle on rough terrain. It even drives me nuts in 2 hi just trying to ease it into my garage. I imagine the earlier trucks with the drive by throttle cable technology don't have this. Where I feel like this is a pretty good analogue vehicle overall, its the encroachment of this kind of stuff that turns me off from alot of modern trucks.
the little things.... I don't know if its the quality of the aftermarket accessory parts that you get at the autoparts stores at those previously mentioned low prices or perhaps bad design to begin with but various light bulbs, dash lights and my HVAC blower motor have had to be replaced. Quite a few light bulbs, maybe it was just time for all of them to fail around a 1 month period but wow. The blower was easy to replace, thankful that I don't have the auto climate control HAVAC that some of these were optioned with. Those seem to be headaches to owners. Interior components do feel cheap, like window switches, and some of the dash buttons. The exterior door handle surrounds are super chinzy and I imagine how much moisture and junk gets down in there. But then again, this thing is solely rooted in its HD work truck origins, so I don't really mind that stuff. It keeps things honest a bit, a touch of luxury, but wearing a worn denim jacket.
around town economy..... well... it stinks frankly. Consider it an effect of physics and moving this much mass but in my around town endeavors, 10mpg is about where its at. This is also my average mpg's when towing our 23 foot camper on the highway. No one buys a 3/4 ton Suburban for running errands around town, so its a mute point, but figured for daily stuff, people might want to know. I don't have a commute, so we pretty much just use the Suburban for recreation and maybe hauling things for home improvement projects.
Its cumbersome offroad.... fo figure right? Yeah its big, but visibility is pretty good really other than the fact it just has a giant foot print. Where my old Discovery felt somewhat telepathic in its ability to find a good line and give you a feel for where the tires were, the Burb just kind of plunders along. Due to its size, weight, and ride (more on this next) I find myself having to drive two tracks and rough dirt roads notably slower than I would in the Land Cruiser or in some of my other previous vehicles. The stiffness of the suspension including the swaybars makes for a bit of head bouncing when negotiating ruts, especially, ESPECIALLY at street tire pressure. This isn't a precision tool, thats the price for payload and cargo capacity. That said, it will get through more difficult obstacles with some careful line choice, a spotter or getting out more often to look, and care taken to the breakover angle.
The G80... yeah I know, I listed it above too, and while it is a useful traction aid, the way in which it engages is a little barbaric. It requires a certain amount of predetermined slip before it engages, so in places where you are trying to tip toe through carefully, it needs to loose traction, spin, then clunk, it engages abruptly. It works, it is helpful, but it lacks... let's say finesse.
Ride quality...... Is a bit rough when unloaded, or light loaded. This is a tradeoff for being able to haul a large payload and being truck based. Part of this is definitely my fault as I have yet to change out the shocks which are a bit past prime. Based on the recomendations in this thread I think Bilsteins will be in our future. Hopefully they take a bit of the harshness out of the ride along with some of the bounciness. For the most part highway driving its comfortable, but bad pavement and offpavement things are a bit rough at street psi. Airing down helps a ton with the ride so I would recommend onboard air being a priority even for moderate excursions off pavement. Again, keep in mind, my truck is 100% bones stock other than a little crank in the torsion bars and a set of 285's.
Lack of aftermarket.... Things like bumpers, lift kit options other than the 6" type stuff, sliders, skid plates, snorkels, etc.... People have retrofitted bumpers and snorkels from other vehicles to work, but you don't get those kind of nice options as you would get with most Jeeps or Toyotas. You have to get creative or build your own with alot of the needs in the offroad realm. Not judging, or bagging on anyone, but my perception of most lifted Suburbans are street queens or rigs on giant tires mud bogging. Not as many K series rigs exploring off the beaten path as say the old square body trucks. I would love a nice, say 3" lift for my Burb to get me a bit more tire clearance as I rub a touch at full stuff with the wheels turned. Plus it would be nice to have the belly up a bit higher to assist the breakover angle.
Underbody... Things aren't exactly tucked up in the frame rails on these trucks. The transmission cross brace hangs annoyingly low unerneath the frame. The e brake cables dangle uncomfortably low. The rear shock mounts look brown to take abuse from the way they hang below the axle. There are no skid plates on these trucks, just some plastic sheilding. Under body protection would be a good investment for peace of mind.
Stuff I need to address:
I had the CEL on and after scanning discovered it was the code for the knock senors. It popped on the last time I was towing our camper and I turned it off. Curious to see if it comes back on, hasn't yet after a couple of days. That said, the knock sensors are a bit notorious on the 2.4, 5.3, and 6.0 motors of this gen. They lie under the intake manifold in the valley. They tend to corrode due to water in the valley collecting around them. Kind of a poor design and you need to remove the fuel rails and intake to get to them, but not an overly difficult thing to fix. Going to prolong it a bit if I can but looks like I will need to address that in the near future, probably this winter when I get a couple of free days and the weather is nasty. Sounds like a good fix is to make a little berm of silicone around the wells for the sensors when you replace them, and it will keep water from hanging out around them.
Shocks as mentioned above, planning to do those this winter, going with the Bilsteins, after you guys talked me out of the Ranchos. The more I read up, seems like the more happy people I found running them.
Thats about it for now unless any other preventative stuff pops up over the winter. While we did postpone trip plans this past summer for our big move, we are in fact planning stuff for next year. I think we are both missing the mountains and desert pretty hard right now so thinking a spring trip to AZ/southern Utah with some backcountry skiing, probably in Colorado might be in the works. We were talking about an Alaskan spring trip but with our little ones so young, camping in the spring on a trip up to AK would be a little more aggressive than we would like to do right now. Our other big trip we are planning to do is a lap through Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland. Thinking thats going to be a late August or probably early September trip, probably not next year but the following.
We sold our medium sized RTT with our FJ Cruiser and are planning to pickup a large sized unit at some point for trips where we are traveling light (relatively, this is a Suburban after all) and setting up a kitchen in the back for the truck to use under the tent with the tent flipped out over the back of the truck. This would be for long trips where we didn't want to bring a canoe or kayaks. I think we could comfortably accommodate the whole fam this way. One of these cold winters we are going to put together a long haul down to Baja and enjoy some warm weather for a change up. We are winter people, but warm weather is good for the soul from time to time. haha Ok, that's about all I have for now. I do want to start putting together a critical spares list for big trips in the burb. If you guys have any suggestions, I would love to hear them.
Other thoughts.....
We are overall pretty stoked with our choice of vehicle so far. Its pretty much fact that no one rig exists that perfectly meets every need, everything has some fault or another. The Burb seems to be a great overall compromise if you have a family and need space and you want a fantastic rig to travel in with the ability to get to most places you really need to get to. Its not Expo cool, and honestly that is a part of why I think I like it. I hear these rants by avid fans of brand x about the heritage, character, even lifestyle of said brand. People go off pontificating on rants about heads of state riding around in their preferred 4wd, or maybe militant groups using them to overthrow governments, maybe its the talk of brand x was doing it all before brand Y. When its all said and done, the Suburban of all things trumps all these dumb posturing arguments. Yep, the modest Suburban, bare with me.... What is THE oldest, longest running model in the history of automobiles? The Suburban... since 1935 actually when it was introduced as a truck based utility vehicle, it wasn't 4wd then because, well, nothing was haha. The Suburban is... and I use this word with a bit of a cringe.... classless. Governmental officials, visiting heads of state, the Secret Service, folks in rurual areas, the military in various iterations over the years have used the Suburban for transporting dignitaries, to dragging things around the farm. It has always oozed utility even if its luxury has been emphasied more and more over the years, similar to pretty much every other major SUV type 4wd. Alot of people get hung up on the exotic, the things we can't have, a romantic notion about a marque with colonial conquest perhaps, but we have to look no further than what we have in our home market to find legendary stuff with a history and pedigree to rival anything else..... If that mattters to you... and it probably shouldn't ;-) Just poking a stick a bit, because that's what I enjoy doing.
Thanks for tagging along....