Winch control box reloacation and proper gauge cables.

[Airmapper]

I'm working on a winch install, and being the nerd I am that can't leave well enough alone, I want to relocate the control box under the hood where it is protected, and then got worried about wire gauges.

Basic info
I'm working with a Smittybilt XRC8.
Maximum amp draw is shown as 410 @ 8000lbs.
The stock cables are around 3ga wire. (25mm sq or whatever)
Mounting the control box will require 72" leads to the winch motor. (3 cables)
Main power and ground cable to battery should be around 3ft each.

Depending on what voltage drop calculator I want to believe, I either need 2ga, or 4/0, trying to stay around the universally recommended 3% drop.

So my question is, what would the appropriate cable gauge be (as in who knows what voltage drop calc is accurate for this situation), and is it a good idea to relocate the control box given how it so quickly extends the length of my circuit as opposed to only extending the battery leads.

While I appreciate any thoughts on the matter, I am particularly looking for a somewhat technical opinion. I am aware I can throw any old 3ga battery cable on there and it will "work." I would like some reasonable expectation that if I tax the winch to a degree where it approaches it's full capabilities, it won't just stall out, or worse fry cables.

 

[Noxious007]

I have an Xterra with Shrock bumper. I relocated my box behind the bumper and relocated the plug for the control to the front grill. The box is protected and I can plug my controller in without having to open the hood.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/115843-Partsflyin-s-Mild-03-Frontier-Build/page5

 

[unseenone]

It's ok to relocated it under the hood, that is where I put mine (warn) -- I used the factory Warn cables -- I think they are #4/0 or #2 Welding Cable. For the less adventurous, you might use the warn kits, and incorporate a quick disconnect Anderson-- Here are two I like.

WARN 36080 28" Quick Connect Power Cable X 1

WARN 26405 Quick Connect Power Cable 7' X 1

WARN 15901 Black Electric Cable X 3 -- winch control 72"

Hopefully this will give you some ideas.

Here is a picture of the relocated box under the hood http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=21898

 

[Lucky j]

Even if the winch came with number 3 gauge, I would go with no 2. But that is just me!

For the rest, just go for it. I place my rear winch control box just behind my front seat in my Yj. The front control box is integrate in the winch, so no possible move. They are both warn.

 

[dwh]

Ignore the voltage drop. Size the wire for the expected max load. When you fire that thing up under heavy load, the voltage of the entire bus is gonna drop a lot more than 3% anyway, and then recover as soon as you turn the winch off. According to Lincoln, with welding cable you are good to go with 2/0 for a 400a load with a 60% or less duty cycle. If you need to handle a 100% duty cycle (i.e., you want to overheat your winch), then take it up to 3/0:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ges/selecting-proper-size-welding-cables.aspx

 

[Lucky j]

I guess that I do not guet something, since I always beleived and notice that no 2 gauge was bigger than number 3, but according to the lincoln chart, it is not alwas the case.

 

[dwh]

Smaller number is bigger until you cross the line over to "ought" size, then it switches to larger number is bigger. #1 is bigger than #2, but 2/0 is bigger than 1/0.

So in order of increasing size it would be would be #2, #1 | 1/0, 2/0, etc.

 

[Airmapper]

Thanks for the ideas so far.

Ignore the voltage drop. Size the wire for the expected max load. When you fire that thing up under heavy load, the voltage of the entire bus is gonna drop a lot more than 3% anyway, and then recover as soon as you turn the winch off. According to Lincoln, with welding cable you are good to go with 2/0 for a 400a load with a 60% or less duty cycle. If you need to handle a 100% duty cycle (i.e., you want to overheat your winch), then take it up to 3/0:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ges/selecting-proper-size-welding-cables.aspx

This makes sense, thanks. I'm trying to figure out where to get welding cable and how to make ends for it. 2/0 still seems huge though.

 

[dwh]

You could go with 1/0 - that 400a number is gonna be FLR (full locked rotor), a.k.a., loaded till it stalls. Unlikely you'll ever get there, and even if you do, you won't be holding down the button and just watching it not move.

 

[Airmapper]

Thanks for the input.

I ordered 30ft of 2/0 high strand count flexy welding cable. Stuff should carry the mail, the high strand count bumps the ampacity up a bit. Cost wasn't bad, I got enough to get a volume discount, that made it even cheaper than standard cable.

My local batteries plus said they could make my cable ends for a little labor cost if I bring them the stuff, guy said around $10. I specifically asked if they could do "professional" ends and they said they could, bit I think I'm going to run by sometime and see just what they call professional.

I want them done with a hex die crimper, which no one in this area seems to have any awareness of, and I'm scared to buy one for $50 that looks made in China, but I'm not going to spend $200+ on a good one.

 

[Scoutn79]

Thanks for the input.

I ordered 30ft of 2/0 high strand count flexy welding cable. Stuff should carry the mail, the high strand count bumps the ampacity up a bit. Cost wasn't bad, I got enough to get a volume discount, that made it even cheaper than standard cable.

My local batteries plus said they could make my cable ends for a little labor cost if I bring them the stuff, guy said around $10. I specifically asked if they could do "professional" ends and they said they could, bit I think I'm going to run by sometime and see just what they call professional.

I want them done with a hex die crimper, which no one in this area seems to have any awareness of, and I'm scared to buy one for $50 that looks made in China, but I'm not going to spend $200+ on a good one.

If you want to get professional results with your cable ends go to NAPA and get the solder ends. They aren't cheap but will give much more efficient energy transfer between the lug and cable and won't corrode at the connection.

Darrell

 

[dwh]

Check your local welding supply shop. They may or may not be able to do it. Where I live, there are tons of welding shops and several buy the wire in spools and make them up to order.

 

[offroader613]

The Chinese hydraulic crimpers are usually pretty good if you get one of the YQK ones. I picked up one off of eBay for $45, think mine is a 12 ton model. The largest cable I've crimped with it was 2 gauge, but it worked like a champ doing the battery cables for 2 vehicles

 

[ripperj]

Thanks for the input.

I ordered 30ft of 2/0 high strand count flexy welding cable. Stuff should carry the mail, the high strand count bumps the ampacity up a bit. Cost wasn't bad, I got enough to get a volume discount, that made it even cheaper than standard cable.

My local batteries plus said they could make my cable ends for a little labor cost if I bring them the stuff, guy said around $10. I specifically asked if they could do "professional" ends and they said they could, bit I think I'm going to run by sometime and see just what they call professional.

Where did you order the wire if you don't mind sharing?


Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk 2

 

[Airmapper]

If you want to get professional results with your cable ends go to NAPA and get the solder ends. They aren't cheap but will give much more efficient energy transfer between the lug and cable and won't corrode at the connection.

Darrell

I don't entirely disagree, I thought about sodier, but there are 2 things I don't like about it. First it will stiffen the wire in a significant section around the joint when it wicks up. The other is if I get the wire hot enough to adhere properly, I'm not sure how far back I'll damage the coating. I will cover with heatshrink of course, but I'd need a lot less not covering up damaged insulator. (And good heat shrink in a size for 2/0 is $$$ out there, I think I'm getting 4ft of it at like $25-$30 total.) I need to make at least 12 connections.

From what I researched on crimp connections (Proper ones, not hammer type) they cold fuse the metal into a solid section under the crimp, the electrical connection is just as good as with sodier. A good connection has 2 of these crimps close together.

Check your local welding supply shop. They may or may not be able to do it. Where I live, there are tons of welding shops and several buy the wire in spools and make them up to order.

Thanks, I'll do that if I don't talk myself into a crimper of my own.

The Chinese hydraulic crimpers are usually pretty good if you get one of the YQK ones. I picked up one off of eBay for $45, think mine is a 12 ton model. The largest cable I've crimped with it was 2 gauge, but it worked like a champ doing the battery cables for 2 vehicles

Those are what I was looking at. I'd get one on a few recommendations, what I was worried about most was proper die sizes. I found reviews on the Harbor Freight unit and the biggest complaint there was the dies were grossly inaccurate for the gauge wire, resulting in a mashing crimp or not enough crimp. I kinda figured most Chinese models may have similar issues.

I'll look into them further, thanks. I'd use a tool like that over and over given the number of vehicles I piddle with, not to mention my parent's stuff I help out on fix-it jobs. My Dad's tractor needs battery cables right now I think. My other 4x4's probably need their cables re-done, and if I ever get the chance to put a winch on one of them I'll be doing all this over again.

Where did you order the wire if you don't mind sharing?

Not at all, if I get what was advertised it's a good deal on cable compared to local sources. 2/0 @ $2.75 a foot over 25ft. $2.99/ft @ under 25ft order.

http://www.weldingsupply.com/