Sway bars... Pros/Cons/opinions wanted

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
I've got a 97 E350 Ambo. Stock it came with a stout front sway bar. It handles quite well for a 9000 lb rig.

Recently I've noticed the newer Ambos have a rear sway bar (I believe as well). Would it be worth adding a rear sway bar? Am I better off spending the money on good shocks?

Draw backs? Any idea what they're worth? How hard to add?
 

Abitibi

Explorer
They do two different things, shocks absorb (basically control bouncing, rebound...) Sway bar control the sway...

On my Patrol I took both front and rear sway bars when I lifted it 3" and it drove fine but for sure at time it felt like I was on a choppy sea!

I just got some extended sway bars extension made for the rear and put the sway bar back on and what a difference! Way way nicer.

If you can find a used sway bar that'd be nice...
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
They do two different things, shocks absorb (basically control bouncing, rebound...) Sway bar control the sway...

On my Patrol I took both front and rear sway bars when I lifted it 3" and it drove fine but for sure at time it felt like I was on a choppy sea!

I just got some extended sway bars extension made for the rear and put the sway bar back on and what a difference! Way way nicer.

If you can find a used sway bar that'd be nice...

Does yours have one... Or do you know when they started?
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
https://www.google.de/search?q=elchtest&newwindow=1&source=lnt&tbs=lr:lang_1de&lr=lang_de&sa=X&ei=_-ZFVeFb0eNonvCB-AY&ved=0CBYQpwU&biw=1280&bih=800

this is where pictures show more than words :Wow1:



This is the search result of the so called ""elchtest"". Years ago and a kind of start for rsc. If you consider a fast two times turn you can imagine the value of a sway bar.

Given the track, wind tunnel, and certification process Crestline put these rigs through, I suspect it exceeds many other vehicles standards.

If their wasn't a down side, wouldn't they have spent the few dollars to include it... Given it was 100k+ new.

Other than cost, why wouldn't all manufacturers have them as standard equipment.
 

Vanaroo

Observer
I have a 1998 E-350 on a cutaway chassis (DRW). (138" WB, around 10,000# when loaded.) Stock from Ford, it had a medium sized (diameter) front anti-sway bar and no rear bar. Previously I had had an E-250 van, and I felt it had decent handling in stock trim. This rig was a bit more like driving on a large ball... get too close to any edge (i.e. turn and thus force goes to a corner) and you started to roll. Or maybe you could say it was a bit like driving a mattress. Rig had under 50,000 miles on it so nothing was really worn out. It was not horrible, but I like vehicles that are fun to drive, and it wasn't.

Note that I'm not (yet?) an overlander, this rig is 2WD, and I have never really had a 4WD vehicle (presuming my old Tercel 4x4 wagon doesn't count) -- so this may not apply to that type of use. Right now gravel or forest type roads are the most "off road" I do. I'm also not sure by the pic if your rig is DRW or SRW. Anyway...

I started by putting good shocks on (Koni), and that helped, but it still wasn't fun to corner. I had previously put anti-sway bars on a daily driver car and loved the improvement, so decided that was my next move.

I went with Roadmaster bars front and rear. I'd have to look up the details but I think they were around 1.5" diameter each (original front bar was more like 1", IIRC). This improved the front but made the rear suspension really harsh. Very jarring over even small bumps that were never noticed before. Not acceptable.

I went back and forth trying various combinations and ended up staying with the Roadmaster front bar, but changing the rear bar to a stock E-450 bar I got from a junkyard (has to be DRW bar if rig is DRW). This is smaller in diameter than the Roadmaster bar, but of course larger than the no-bar the rig came with. This proved to be a good balance between much improved handling (fun to drive now) and only very slightly harsher (if any) rear suspension action. To find the bar I looked in one of the online sites that aggregates a bunch of junkyards and then called around. The one I bought was a couple of states away and I had it shipped. The total came to around $65 (bonus!). I did go with new bushings for the used bar.

With the addition/upgrade of the bars I went from "ugh" cornering to fun cornering. Whereas before (talking highway here) I felt like I needed to take posted corners at 5-10 mph under what the sign advised, now I can go the recommended speed or even 5 over and get the same feel. Essentially it is much flatter in the corners. I have not noticed any particular oversteer. Also there is less of the ... not sure what you call it but let's say you pull out of a gas station on a slight angle and so the rig "comes down" off the change in level in stages. Before, that would start a sequence of rocking back and forth (cue sound of things in rear compartments banging around). With the new bar setup that "damps down" much more quickly.

I realize this may not apply to off-road "four wheeling" (which I have not done) (looks interesting though!)

Edited to add: When I was going through this process, and initially got the "egad this is way too harsh!" result with the larger rear bar, I was told by a couple of people in the suspension business that harsh (rear) ride was not uncommon on the E-350/E-450 chassis, especially when not super loaded (super loaded being, say, a 15,000# 28' RV, which is not my rig at all). Apparently ambulances particularly complained. I can imagine why thinking about how harsh the ride was on the rear of my rig with the big bars, and imagining trying to start an IV or something on a patient back there. Yikes. So maybe the rear bar was not put on an ambulance to trade some cornering prowess for the ability to not stab people in unintended places while driving/doctoring? Apparently a new thing is parabolic rear springs, which are popular with ambulances. I thought I might look into them, but things turned out well enough (for me) with the E-450 bar that I'm not going to mess with it unless something changes in future. Also there are things like Sulastic Springs (which I may still consider) and More-Ryde rubber suspension additions. I'm pretty happy as-is with the combo I have now.
 
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Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
Quick answer: DRW.
It is quite fun to drive, drives straight at 70 mph, and corners very well.

I'm daily driving it at the moment. It handles better than many cars.
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
Thanks for the in depth reply. It sounds like the 1.5" bar is to be avoided... Stock does seem like a good idea.
I'm willing to trade off possible handling improvement for a better ride, since it handles well. Ideally, I'd like to improve the ride without any sacrifice to handling... :D

I'm not concerned about off road performance... I've accept it'll always be mediocre at best.
 

cem17

New member
1.5" Hellwig bar works great for me on my minimod. Previous owner removed the factory air bags and I found the body roll to be completely unacceptable without a sway bar in the back. The sway bar will limit travel offroad, but I'm not sure how it would lead to "harshness". Though i have nice 6" alas springs. And don't think that shocks will really have much of and effect on body roll with a large top heavy rig.

Air bags are an option I guess, but for the money and reliability a sway bar made mine handle pretty great and I have no harshness. Great upgrade in my opinion.
 

Vanaroo

Observer
Ideally, I'd like to improve the ride without any sacrifice to handling... :D

Understood! I wanted the inverse: To improve the handling without sacrificing the ride :smiley_drive: It took a bit of trial and error, and not sure how much would apply to another rig, but figured it might help. Interesting that yours is "opposite" from how mine was in stock form.
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
I don't know if a completed ambulance package rig could still be considered stock. I'm sure the weight of the 7.3 PSD, and the aluminum "cage" on the back play a part. I also don't think these spacers are stock...
 

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Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
They've got a 5/8" thick spacer on the radius arm which will change the steering geometry.

Interesting that the 1.5" rear sway worked well on a minimod... Which is basically what I've got. 88" wide, 21' long, but DRW.
 

Vanaroo

Observer
The sway bar will limit travel offroad, but I'm not sure how it would lead to "harshness".

I'm not sure my experience will be directly applicable to Bikersmurf's rig, but I probably could have explained the harshness I experienced a bit better. Essentially, when I got the rig it was bone stock and had around 50,000 "grandpa" type miles on it. So nothing was particularly worn, but it wasn't totally fresh either -- and was all just stock. I immediately got new tires, and then new shocks. I didn't expect any huge changes with the shocks, but they did feel like new shocks, and were a bit less "generic/cushy" feeling than the stock ones. After that I drove for 10,000 miles or so, and then it was time to take the next step into making it more fun to drive. As a part of this, I put on the beefier-than-original front bar, and the big rear bar (there was no stock bar). The front was improved in how you would expect (flatter corners, somewhat "tighter" feel), but the rear became horribly harsh. What I mean by that was that roads that I had previously driven on and "thought" were smooth, were suddenly jarringly "bumpy" as the rear axle went over them. The feeling was kind of a judder/shake/shudder - a bit like the rear end of a dog as it completes the shake after getting out of the water. Obviously there were no new bumps in the road since that morning, but they were suddenly unpleasantly noticeable.

Interior RV "house" type things that had not budged in thousands of miles on all sorts of roads rattled/fell just in the first 30 paved miles from the shop (same roads I had driven to get there that morning with no problem). It wasn't exactly comfortable in the driver's seat either. Removing the rear bar (the next day) took that completely away, but then of course also took away any handling gains it had provided. I wanted those back, of course, but without the negative effects. After a number of experiments with different combinations of shocks/bars/etc. on the same loop of roads, I found that the junkyard E-450 bar (which, IIRC is 1" in diameter as opposed to the 1.5" Roadmaster bar and the 0" stock non-bar) gave most of the gains of the bigger bar, but without most of the unpleasant harshness in the rear suspension.

Sounds like Bikersmurf may not have the same issues anyway, but I figured I'd explain what I experienced a bit better.
 

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
Thanks. With threads like this I encourage discussion beyond my needs. I'm thinking I'll keep my eyes open for a stock bar... Starting with checking out the Ambo that's being stripped by a local garage.


Perhaps I should clarify my previous post... I'd also like handling to be better, I just have no complaints about it, and don't want to sacrifice ride to get it. If I have to choose which to improve, ride wins out.
 
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