4 Vehicle Choice for Budget SUV

Madmaxwell87

Observer
I have been on this site for a while and have read every budget vehicle choice thread there is. Most are broad and end up with people suggesting toyota trucks or suvs or XJs. Mine is a little different. As usual it's a small budget~$2500-3000. However I have done some research and have narrowed it down to 4 vehicles. Some background on myself and the uses of the vehicle-
-Married with kids coming in a few years so need 4 doors
-Will be DD with camping and exploring trips on nor cal trails (no rock crawling) and so cal dunes and deserts. Not much in town driving.
- Must be 4x4 midsize SUV (no need for a truck and the price premium they command)
-Automatic to deal with Bay Area traffic
-decent mpg (had an expedition that averaged 13 mpg, need a little better than that)(avg of 15 ok)
-Will be keeping either stock height or up to a 2" lift with tires in either biggest stock size or one size up(31s max). Will change all fluids, put some quality shocks and off road tires on (cooper st maxx at top of list currently) and call it good.
-Have tools and space to do minor work and have access to more tools and space to do bigger projects

So now to the vehicles-
93-94 Explorer (no 95-01 due to timing chain issues for ohc v6 and 5 speed trans with issues, v8 gets horrible mpg) Can fit 31's stock, have ttb front end that can be upgraded to go fast long travel fairly easily. However they are fairly old now so cheapest to purchase but also more initial maintenance.
96-02 Chevy Blazer- I know they have a weak front end but get decent mpg and I love the tailgate. Very few wheel choices and little aftermarket support.
95-02 Montero Sport- Good mpg but that's due to low gearing and low hp. They don't quite get Toyota money but at this price level most have 20-50,000 miles more than the domestic equivalent. Can fit 32's stock and seem fairly reliable. Basically no wheel choices. Can get OME lift
95-98 Grand Cherokee- would have to be 4.0l. Not much wrong here and good aftermarket support but the older ones are more valuable these days for the reasons that make them good. Small wheel openings but lifts are easy and cheap. Would have to go up 2"s to get 31s on.

I am on forums for each model but wanted to ask about all 4 together and on a site that focuses on how I would be mainly using the vehicle. So with all that laid out lets hear some first hand experience with these vehicles and what you guys would choose. Thanks
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
I have owned both an S-10 (ZR2 Sonoma) and various Jeeps. I think the Blazer would be my choice for road duty, but for offroad, you won't beat the ZJ and it's solid axles and light body. The Blazer lacks clearance compared to the rest. It would be fine for back roading, but not so good for things like Moab, or rougher trails that require some clearance. The Explorer and Montero are better for clearance, and the Jeep probably the best. If you find a 4.0L ZJ, it would probably get similar mileage to the S-10. Actually, they probably all get about the same mileage.

If having only 2 doors is an option, you might look for a 2-door ZR2 blazer. The back seat is actually pretty roomy, and the drivetrain heavier duty. Already on 31's, better clearance, and pretty capable yet very road friendly.

The ZJ's weak point is the trans. If it's been rebuilt, or you plan for it to go eventually, that's manageable.
I think Explorers of that era can have high mileage trans issues too, but again, you can manage that, and the TTB works much better offroad than the Blazer or Montero's SLA IFS. Probably almost as good as the ZJ really, just not a lot of aftermarket support.

Hmm. If you'd like to run 31's, and we're not talking about a ZR2, then from an ease/cost of lifting standpoint, there's only one choice: The ZJ. :)
Good Luck finding a nice one!! My advice would be to look for one with less fancy factory accessories, and no aftermarket crap bolted on it... That's the stuff that'll eventually give you problems in my experience. :)
 
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calicamper

Expedition Leader
$2500-3000 with todays insane used car market prices gets you pretty much a junkyard repo sadly. Just amazes me what the prices are today for very tired worn out vehicles. How far off are kids? Given your budget I would skip the kid planning and just get whatever you happen to come across in halfway decent shape given in 3-4yrs you'll be replacing it anyway. Not being a jerk just pointing out how stupidly priced used cars are today.

My dads totally worn out yet still running 1999 Ford Explorer 4L has 230,000 miles on it every single aspect about it is worn out. He keeps it as his beater around town ride and is waiting for the day when some major part just falls off and thats the end of the program. I've seen dozens of cleaner versions listed on Craigs list with as many miles or more for $2000 and knowing the condition of my dads Explorer which has had a pretty simple life and seen decent maint NO WAY are those 200+K vehicles worth $2000 or more in some cases.

When it comes down to brass tacks mileage is all that matters AGE not so much. With $2000-$3000 I would be the creepy guy that keeps visiting retirement communities and looking at their pin boards for older grandpa driven vehicles being sold off via the non world wide web thumb tack board or parked out in the golf club parking lot with a forsale sign in the window. Because once those cars hit the interweb they get stupid prices on them.

My uncle picked up a 2000 buick with 30,000 miles on it for $1500 some old lady had it parked at the golf club with a sign in the window. Not your style but an example of picking up a reliable functional ride for your budget will take that type of approach. He has since towed his 4wheelerATV from California to Montana several times with it zero issues and uses it as his daily driver around town all for $1500 hard to argue with that. He has a cherry Z1 3/4 ton pickup with a popup camper he uses on his longer camping trips also found dirt cheap one state over grandpa passed away and family didn't want his old truck, 1989 totally clean truck with 28,000 miles on it he paid $5000 for it! Had that truck hit the interweb it would have been listed for far far more $$
 
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1stDeuce

Explorer
I'm not even going to beg, I DIFFER! :)

There are plenty of 200k vehicles out there that are not all beat up and ready to die. I'm driving one, and my wife is very close to driving one too. Find the nicest one that's in or just over your budget, drive it so you know what it's condition is like, and make an offer that works for YOU. Just because someone is asking $4000 for a vehicle doesn't mean it's worth that price. Offer what it's worth. If they're offended, that's not your problem, just keep looking. That's how the good deals are found. :)
Chris
Wow, the market in your area is loaded with good deals!! Here's a few that look nice to me:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/5079098973.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5074286781.html <-- Actually a WJ, but still a good buy!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/5014397922.html
 

Madmaxwell87

Observer
ZJ and the Explorer are my first choices. ZJ because of off road capability and big aftermarket, explorer because of costs (purchase, maintenance, modifications), good starting point, and they're plentiful.

Kid's are probably a year or two at most away so I'd rather not get a vehicle and invest anything into it to have to sell it to get something big enough fairly soon. That negates the 2 door option as putting kids in a car seat in a 2 door vehicle is never fun.

I know for that money it will be an older model with around 150-170,000 miles with proper maintenance being the main focus over price, color, options etc. My current Ford Focus has been a great commuter car but wasn't properly maintained so I've had to put more money into it than I wanted. I have bought and sold a few cars privately, worked at a dealership, and have restored old cars so I'm not afraid of getting a fixer upper as long as the major things have been taken care of.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The best deals I've seen in the Bay Area have been neighborhood deals via Nextdoor.com. Sign up for your neighborhood and keep an eye on the car listings. Also be aware they typically go fast as in like just a few hours at most. The reason is that the sellers don't want to deal with craigs list randoms and feel better about dealing with a neighbor thus the price and all the vehicle history and use is aired out like dirty laundry to make it as fair as possible for both sides.

Granted the last 3 vehicles I have purchased were all Craigs list cars but my budget was 20-25K and I did a 4 state search using Searchtempest. NV. OR, WA and CA. Two were found in the Bay Area both were negotiated down from the asking price both were low mileage good condition cars private sellers. The big slam dunk was last year Grandpas dream car 2005 SLK 350 with no joke 14,000 miles on it original owner barn stored craigs list listing. We had to fly to Seattle to get that car. Having said that every case I had been looking and watching every day for over three months before finding the right cars. There are lots of total junkers being listed out there so be VERY VERY VERY picky! And yes negotiate everything missed services timing belts, AT services, tires, dents accident damage etc.
 

Madmaxwell87

Observer
I'm not even going to beg, I DIFFER! :)

There are plenty of 200k vehicles out there that are not all beat up and ready to die. I'm driving one, and my wife is very close to driving one too. Find the nicest one that's in or just over your budget, drive it so you know what it's condition is like, and make an offer that works for YOU. Just because someone is asking $4000 for a vehicle doesn't mean it's worth that price. Offer what it's worth. If they're offended, that's not your problem, just keep looking. That's how the good deals are found. :)
Chris
Wow, the market in your area is loaded with good deals!! Here's a few that look nice to me:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/5079098973.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5074286781.html <-- Actually a WJ, but still a good buy!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/5014397922.html
Thanks for the links. That's a nice first zj, the wj is 2wd, and the red zj has 180k on it. With domestic cars I feel like you're on borrowed transmission time once you get over 165-170k. If they can prove they had fluid and filter changes every 60-80k or so I'd take the risk though. That's probably the most or second most expensive fix if you have to rebuild a trans or put a used one in so I'd rather get a rougher vehicle with lower miles on the trans.
 

Madmaxwell87

Observer
The best deals I've seen in the Bay Area have been neighborhood deals via Nextdoor.com. Sign up for your neighborhood and keep an eye on the car listings. Also be aware they typically go fast as in like just a few hours at most. The reason is that the sellers don't want to deal with craigs list randoms and feel better about dealing with a neighbor thus the price and all the vehicle history and use is aired out like dirty laundry to make it as fair as possible for both sides.
Thanks for the heads up on that. Didn't know that existed. I don't have a problem flying to get a vehicle if they can prove maintenance.
 

4x4junkie

Explorer
(no 95-01 due to timing chain issues for ohc v6 and 5 speed trans with issues, v8 gets horrible mpg)

The OHC 4.0L & 5-speed auto did not appear until '97. So you can look as late as '96 for Explorers if it's just the OHC & 5-speed you're avoiding.

Lots & lots of aftermarket for the '91-'94 Explorers (much of it due to it's Ranger pickup lineage). The TTB suspensions indeed are very durable and take exceptionally well to modifications, even on a small budget. There's a huge plethora of ways to build them, from all-out $$$ go-fast builds for the desert to trail or even rock crawlers (that still maintain some semblance of street manners), to anything in between. Only thing to watch out for is inadequate steering corrections on mainstream suspension lifts (proper corrections up to 4" are available, but for reasons unknown they are not provided with the lift itself). There are lots of resources on the web that cover this subject.
Since you said you might only lift it 2", you probably won't have to deal with that anyway.

Skip those with 3.27:1 axle gears if you want reasonable MPG... 3.73:1 is much better, especially if you're going to put 31" tires on it (4.10:1 would be ideal, though that was never offered on the 1st-gens, you'd have to put 4.10 in yourself). Low-20s highway should be possible, and mid-teens in mixed driving.

My order of preference for the 4 vehicles you mention:
Explorer
Montero
ZJ
(S-10) Blazer

Everyone always talks up the Jeeps, but aside from availability of aftermarket bolt-ons, I see nothing special about them. Their frontends are not particularly strong, and the rear ends in many of them are actually notoriously weak. Interiors are small and space-inefficient. Engines are OK (if getting less-than-stellar MPG), and the auto transmissions do seem to have better cooling than Ford's setup, but overall Chrysler's build quality is a real turnoff for me. Throw an external cooler on the Ford's trans and I think you would have a winner.
 
Have you thought about a '90-'95 4 door Nissan Pathfinder? Great deals can be found for less than $4000.

They are the best vehicles I've ever owned (I've had 2 before getting my current Nissan Xterra). The last one I had was at 300K when I sold it and it ran perfect. I routinely embarrassed Jeep Wranglers on Moab trails like Fins and Hells in it, which was quite fun. Im looking for another one now as my next project vehicle.

Pathfinders have excellent trail dimensions, very strong and troublefree drivetrain that runs forever, low gearing (4.38 - 4.63 stock), 31" tires stock, rear H233b axle is a beast, limited slip rear end / rear disk brake on SE models, flexy rear coil spring suspension, decent mpg. 3.0L V6 engine is not a powerhouse but very reliable and the timing belt is a non-issue if maintenance is done on schedule. Parts are dirt cheap in my experience. The only real weak point to address is the steering with tie rod adjusters and idler arm needing some upgrades if a suspension lift and larger tires are added. My impression is that the Nissan build quality and engineering is right on par with Toyota products of the same time period with a much better v6 engine.

Just my opinion, but a Pathfinder is superior in almost every way to the other vehicles you've mentioned with the criteria you are looking for. Of the vehicle choices you listed, the Ford Explorer is the only one I'd strongly consider for the reasons previously given by others.

Jeep GC doesnt impress me at all and I've driven and worked on quite a few. Chrysler quality and engineering are very poor although the engine, trans, and transfer case are OK. Axles and gearing are terrible, and expensive mods are needed to even fit 31" tires without hacking up the body.

S10 Blazer is the least off road capable of the ones on your list, with the exception of a 2 door ZR2, and reliablity is always an issue with GM products of that era. Again, this is my opinion and experience, not trying to insult anyone.

No opinion of the Montero as I've never touched or driven one.

As a side note regarding traffic and transmissions, I actually prefer a manual trans in heavy stop and go Denver traffic. 1st gear, idle along and control your speed with only the throttle, I rarely ever actually come to a complete stop. With an auto, its constant throttle/brake transitions and it wears me out.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Have you thought about a '90-'95 4 door Nissan Pathfinder? Great deals can be found for less than $4000.

They are the best vehicles I've ever owned (I've had 2 before getting my current Nissan Xterra). The last one I had was at 300K when I sold it and it ran perfect. I routinely embarrassed Jeep Wranglers on Moab trails like Fins and Hells in it, which was quite fun. Im looking for another one now as my next project vehicle.

Pathfinders have excellent trail dimensions, very strong and troublefree drivetrain that runs forever, low gearing (4.38 - 4.63 stock), 31" tires stock, rear H233b axle is a beast, limited slip rear end / rear disk brake on SE models, flexy rear coil spring suspension, decent mpg. 3.0L V6 engine is not a powerhouse but very reliable and the timing belt is a non-issue if maintenance is done on schedule. Parts are dirt cheap in my experience. The only real weak point to address is the steering with tie rod adjusters and idler arm needing some upgrades if a suspension lift and larger tires are added. My impression is that the Nissan build quality and engineering is right on par with Toyota products of the same time period with a much better v6 engine.

Just my opinion, but a Pathfinder is superior in almost every way to the other vehicles you've mentioned with the criteria you are looking for. Of the vehicle choices you listed, the Ford Explorer is the only one I'd strongly consider for the reasons previously given by others.

Jeep GC doesnt impress me at all and I've driven and worked on quite a few. Chrysler quality and engineering are very poor although the engine, trans, and transfer case are OK. Axles and gearing are terrible, and expensive mods are needed to even fit 31" tires without hacking up the body.

S10 Blazer is the least off road capable of the ones on your list, with the exception of a 2 door ZR2, and reliablity is always an issue with GM products of that era. Again, this is my opinion and experience, not trying to insult anyone.

No opinion of the Montero as I've never touched or driven one.

As a side note regarding traffic and transmissions, I actually prefer a manual trans in heavy stop and go Denver traffic. 1st gear, idle along and control your speed with only the throttle, I rarely ever actually come to a complete stop. With an auto, its constant throttle/brake transitions and it wears me out.
Good point forgot about those. He is right I had a few friends with those tons of hard miles and never had any major issues with them. No weak transmission cooling issues or engine issues.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
-Ford Explorer. Capable. Strong. Durable. When you break it, you just go get another one.

-Izuzu Trooper. Great truck that will last a very long time. Limited aftermarket support compared to other vehicles but if you keep it near stock, it'll just work.

-Chebby Trailblazer. Wouldn't be good for the technical off roading, but for general purpose stuff it is very good.

-Jeep Cherokee (the old one). You've got the running gear of a champion. Small. Nimble. Comfortable. Lots of aftermarket support. I'd throw an 8.8 in the rear, beef up the front axle. Slip yoke Eliminator. Bit of a lift, front bumper. Go.


However I want a Discovery 2. They are actually cheap but plan on $2500/year for maintenance.
 

Madmaxwell87

Observer
Have you thought about a '90-'95 4 door Nissan Pathfinder? Great deals can be found for less than $4000.

They are the best vehicles I've ever owned (I've had 2 before getting my current Nissan Xterra). The last one I had was at 300K when I sold it and it ran perfect. I routinely embarrassed Jeep Wranglers on Moab trails like Fins and Hells in it, which was quite fun. I'm looking for another one now as my next project vehicle.

Pathfinders have excellent trail dimensions, very strong and trouble free drivetrain that runs forever, low gearing (4.38 - 4.63 stock), 31" tires stock, rear H233b axle is a beast, limited slip rear end / rear disk brake on SE models, flexy rear coil spring suspension, decent mpg. 3.0L V6 engine is not a powerhouse but very reliable and the timing belt is a non-issue if maintenance is done on schedule. Parts are dirt cheap in my experience. The only real weak point to address is the steering with tie rod adjusters and idler arm needing some upgrades if a suspension lift and larger tires are added. My impression is that the Nissan build quality and engineering is right on par with Toyota products of the same time period with a much better v6 engine.

Just my opinion, but a Pathfinder is superior in almost every way to the other vehicles you've mentioned with the criteria you are looking for. Of the vehicle choices you listed, the Ford Explorer is the only one I'd strongly consider for the reasons previously given by others.

I did look into the newer 96-04 pathfinders but there are no nice ones in my price range. I might have to take a look at the older ones. I do like the older square body style suvs.
 

Madmaxwell87

Observer
So my mental struggle is MPG vs strength/ upgrade options.
The montero sport and blazer get the best mpg based on epa and fuelly numbers. The ford and jeep get about the same but that's about 1-2 mpg less on avg. The pathfinder gets the worst by epa and fuelly numbers.

The Izuzu Rodeo/Honda Pasport also fall into the mix with what seems like a good blend of mpg vs strength but about the same aftermarket as the montero
 

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