Fire extinguishers

[MTSN]

Yesterday morning I had a pretty unforgettable and sad experience of being one of the first people on the scene of a horrible auto accident that caused the vehicle (Jeep TJ) to burst into flames and ran up with my fire extinguisher to see the passenger caught on fire. The driver made it out remarkably (was already outside the Jeep somehow as I ran up), but the passenger was severely burned. I used my 2.5 lb First Alert (http://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-F...1438725090&sr=1-16&keywords=fire+extinguisher) that's been in my vehicle for probably 2+ years, and while it worked ok it didn't seem to last very long - maybe ~20 seconds. It could have been longer or shorter, honestly I don't know I was pretty hopped up on adrenaline. It just seemed like it should have been more robust and lasted a bit longer, but truth be told it was the first time I've ever used an extinguisher so I have no idea what "normal" is like for one. I do know that it was in the green zone on the gauge, so it certainly was not defective.

I am about to purchase a replacement for the one I used, and I'm actually planning to purchase at least two. I always kept the one I had in between the driver's seat and the driver's door which was an excellent spot for how fast it was to grab. I will now also keep on on the passenger side as well and probably one more in the cargo area. My question is, what is the "best" one I can buy for the Jeep for such emergencies? I have zero problem paying top dollar for the best equipment, but I just want to be sure I'm buying what's most effective not just the best looking.

I did some reading on the different types, and I was honestly surprised at how many variations there are. The two main types that seem geared towards our general purpose are the dry chemical types (sodium bicarbonate, ammonium polyphosphate, monoammonium phosphate) and the clean agent types (halon/halotron). It seems the latter of the two is substantially more expensive but does not leave a residue and damage behind after it's been used. Does that mean they're effectively "better"? Personally I like the idea that with halotron you do not damage sensitive parts in case the fire is minor, or you want to salvage as much as possible. I also wonder how dangerous it would be for a person to be sprayed with and breath in the dry chemical kind compared with halotron. I honestly don't know if the person yesterday could have saved with simple fire extinguishers, but it is certainly something I'll think about for the rest of my life.

The one that's at the top of my list so far in my research is this one, and I'm hoping I can get some folks to chime in with their thoughts: http://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performan...69&sr=1-9&keywords=fire+extinguisher+halotron

 

[Comanche Scott]

Very cool that you stopped and helped! :beer:

Would love to hear from a fireman on this.
I have fire extinguishers mounted beside the two front seats. You are right, 2.5 lbs goes very fast!
To be honest, I'd prefer not to use the abc extinguishers on my own vehicle. So corrosive, but was under the impression that Halon is more for enclosed areas.

 

[fog cutter]

not to be too much of a wise-***, but the "best" one is one you never have to use.

that whole scene must have been quite traumatic. the extinguisher you picked out is the one i had in the Tacoma. it has a shelf life of 5 years (from memory). most small extinguishers need to be tapped with a rubber mallet every couple of months so the stuff inside doesn't pack. not sure if this would have affected your situation.

hopefully, someone who's a first-responder will chime in and get accurate information out here for everyone to heed.

 

[ripperj]

I just shelled out decent money for two all metal Amerex ABCS, all metal handle and valve and refillable, cost more, but will be there if I need it.
$85 for two

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk 2

 

[MTSN]

Thanks - there was honestly no time to think at all. I just heard someone screaming for help saying there was someone still in the Jeep and asking for fire extinguishers, so it basically just happened in a matter of about 5 seconds. Funny how we try to prepare for things like dead batteries, broken down vehicles, first aid, fires, etc. and never actually expect to use the stuff. It's a stark reminder that you can go decades without ever confronting an emergency, but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. It's kind of like with motorcycles - there are those who have crashed and those who will, so you should always dress for the crash not for the ride.

 

[kmlacroix]

Dry chemical are cheap and effective, but messy and can cause respitory issues if inhaled. Water is great on things like wood, paper, and people. CO2 and halon are great for electrical and electronic area as they do not leave a residue. Co2 and halon can have some nasty side effects on people if inhaled.

As i was taught firefighting in the Navy many years
Water has a general cooling effect. Most effective on class A fires
CO2 displaces the O2 in the fire triangle.
Halon chemically separates the parts in the fire triangle.
Dry Chemical physically separates the combustible from the O2.
Halotron is the replacement to Halon.

My training is 25 years old so if the information is not current, please update.

 

[MTSN]

Thank you kmlacroix that's great info!

 

[Comanche Scott]

Any extinguisher works better in an enclosed space..
Btw, Halon extinguishing agents are prohibited for some time now in the general fire suppression market.
There are various other non halon clean extinguisher agents some are proprietory, Inergen for example or old fashioned Carbon Dioxide.

Its a messy thing, But the ABC drypowder extinguisher is the most effective thing in an easily portable package.

Halon extinguishers are still available and serviceable.

 

[1stDeuce]

My buddy had the same reaction to the time his 2.5lb extinguisher lasted... not long. Aim well, pull the trigger. Use it all and make sure the fire is out. If you give it a short blast and think it's good for another, you're probably wrong... I carry a bigger 5lb unit in my truck and Jeep, but not every vehicle will fit one. If you catch a fire when it's small, a small extinguisher will do the job. If it's a car fire that's been going for more than a minute, you're going to need a BIG extinguisher. Or a firetruck.

Chris

 

[NatersXJ6]

You get what you pay for...

I used to carry one of he home cheapo units in the back of my K5 blazer. One day I heard a pop, a whoosh, and my world filled with stinging white fog. Getting to the side of the highway was fun. Cleaning out the mess was fun. Replacing the entire interior wiring harness 6 months later... Fun?

Anyway... Get a good steel commercial unit. It is worth the money.

 

[Mrknowitall]

most small extinguishers need to be tapped with a rubber mallet every couple of months so the stuff inside doesn't pack. not sure if this would have affected your situation.

I would think being strapped into a Jeep would provide sufficient agitation:jumping:
From what I recall, CO2 extinguishers are not rated/endorsed for automotive use because they can spread fluids. I used to carry one in the Bronco. In the case of an interior fire, fluids aren't a concern. They're definitely useful in a garage setting, in case your handy-work causes something to burn.

 

[pugslyyy]

I keep 3 decent fire extinguishers - one between the seats in the cab, another just inside the door to the camper, and a big one in my tool storage / mechanical bay (first door of the service body, passenger side)

 

[dp7197]

I honestly don't know if the person yesterday could have saved with simple fire extinguishers, but it is certainly something I'll think about for the rest of my life. [/url]

Thank you for your detailed explanation of what you experienced as well as your candidness. For those of us who are in the fire service and/or do it for a living (fire protection engineering), we honestly think about fire safety all the time. It is said that everyone will have two experiences with the fire department (fire) in their lifetime. I think that this experience will only help keep fire safety in your mind.

So, fire extinguishers. There was a decent article in the Spring 2012 edition of Overland Journal entitled "We Set a Land Rover on Fire in an Attempt to Learn About Fire Safety and Prevention". This could be a good starting point.

The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Standard for Portable Fire Extinguishers, NFPA 10, will tell you more than anyone really wants to know about types, size, hazards, whatever, and not really what people want or need to know for their 4-wheeling/overland application.

Whenever I see stove set-ups attached to vehicles and propane tanks near the gasoline fills, I tend to get a little nervous. Especially if you need to go past the stove to get to the roll bar mounted extinguisher. I tend to lean more towards the folding camp table and portable stove AWAY from my ride home.

I would carry the largest fire extinguisher you can accommodate, which in our world is not always practical. Smaller 2.5lb extinguishers "fit" where we want them, but we seem to always have room for the 10 and 15 pound Co2 cylinders for filling up tires. It will never happen to us.......

Anyhow, I would look for a fire extinguisher with a metal body and neck/handle. These can be recharged. The extinguisher will list the classes of fire it can extinguish (A - ordinary combustibles like Land Rover Technical Manuals, B - flammable liquids like gasoline, and C - electrical fires). Flammable metals (class D) and kitchen cooking oils (class K) don't really apply here unless you have a deep fat fryer in the back of your old VW with a magnesium engine block. "Hefting" your fire extinguisher periodically will help ensure the dry chemical powder will not harden. Co2 extinguishers are easily identifiable by the "bell" on the end of the nozzle. These are also useful in cooling down beverages quickly.

The numbers in front of the letters (ex. 2A10BC) let the user know the rating size of the fire the extinguisher can put out. In this example 2A would put out a 10' X 10' wood panel or 25 sq. ft. of flammable liquid. Not as effective as you may think - especially when something is fully involved.

Fire loves oxygen and opening up a Land Rover hood can help an engine fire increase as well as increase the potential for burns to your hands and eyebrows.

I carry two MaxOut http://www.h3rperformance.com/mx250r.htm extinguishers with me.

You can learn more about fire safety at your local fire department, YouTube training videos, or at seminars at some of the Expo classes which are held. Like MTSN said - dress for the crash, not the ride. Stay safe out there.

 

[14JKURX]

Very cool that you stopped and helped! :beer:

Would love to hear from a fireman on this.
I have fire extinguishers mounted beside the two front seats. You are right, 2.5 lbs goes very fast!
To be honest, I'd prefer not to use the abc extinguishers on my own vehicle. So corrosive, but was under the impression that Halon is more for enclosed areas.

What brackets did you use to mount them to the side of the seat brackets?

Mike

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Most vehicle fires are electrical and a fire extinguishers will only suppress an electrical fire until your extinguishers is empty. Once empty your problem is still there. You are much better served by carrying cable cutters first and an extinguishers. Killing the source of the fire will do more than any fire extinguishers.