How do AWD Express vans do in sand?

bald.eagle

Observer
Question for you guys with AWD Express vans. I have a 4WD Suburban now, but am looking to replace it with a van in the next year or so. I live in north FL, so we do lots of driving on the beach. If I get a van, it's gotta be 4WD or AWD, but I don't have a huge budget (quite small, really, so conversions really aren't an option)... I'm thinking the AWD Express van is probably the best option. I'm wondering how the AWD performs in loose traction terrain like a sandy beach. I stay out of the soft stuff but we do ride on beach "roads" like thru St. Augustine, Daytona, etc. Do they have any funky traction control systems that can be/need to be modified? Are there any ways to hack the AWD to be part time by manual control like 4WD? I don't plan on going big with a lift, I did torsion bar keys and spacers on my Suburban and will likely do the same to the van, maybe with a small body lift, so I could run 31-33" tires.

Any input is really appreciated. Suggestions as well, if you guys have any other ideas for a good option other than the AWD Express vans.
 

Herbie

Rendezvous Conspirator
Generally, the AWD systems do really well in sand.

My AWD Astro had a similar version of the transfer case in the AWD express, and it always did great in sand, until I went 4WD. I don't know if there were any viscous-coupled AWD Express vans, which would have been awesome. Instead, I think all the Express AWD use the electronic AWD system. Basically there's a clutch pack and a shifter motor, and the TCCU controls the shifter motor to send power when needed. That behavior is determined by relative wheel speeds, etc.

On the Astro version (NV136), I know people occasionally found the shifter motor to be a failure spot, even with normal driving (given enough time), which is why some of us went to a more conventional 4WD TC.

Since I've gone to a 2-speed transfer case, I just run 4Hi when I'm in the sand now. Works also, but it's different.
 

Stroverlander

Adventurer
Not an Express but both my Safari AWD with Borg Warner t-case and Astro AWD with part-time electronic NV136 t-case handle sand/beach conditions very well. I give a slight edge to the Astro due to three wheel motion with G80 option rear locker but if they both had the G80 then probably the BW t-case. Been all over Florida beaches and never been stuck.

Don't know as much about the Express AWD but I believe it has a BW4472 t-case so should be good to go. If they are available with G80 option rear locker then that would be helpful as well, or pick up a rebuilt/reman unit from Ebay and install.

There are probably some transfer case swap threads on the forum if you're interested in going to a two-speed t-case.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I would think the major issue is weight vs how big of a tire patch you have. If you have smallish tires vs the packed weight of a expedition van I would think that they sink pretty quick after hitting soft sand. Tire size probably matters the most.
 

hogasm

Observer
I never felt the need to have 4wd in a van. Air pressure is key here on the Outer Banks of NC. Pull a trailer full of bath tubs and other plumbing fixtures in a 16' Pace trailer up to Corova NC all the time. I love the expression on the face of a stuck 4wd truck when my rig passes them on the beach
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I never felt the need to have 4wd in a van. Air pressure is key here on the Outer Banks of NC. Pull a trailer full of bath tubs and other plumbing fixtures in a 16' Pace trailer up to Corova NC all the time. I love the expression on the face of a stuck 4wd truck when my rig passes them on the beach

Thats been my experience with all my vehicles tire foot print was the biggest thing. The skinny stock tires on my dads old dodge were instant stuck unless they were aired down to near nothing then it was perfectly happy cruising the sand. The vans should do OK as long as the tire patch is big enough for the loaded weight. Some folks get their expedition rigs packed crazy heavy which case regardless of the drive system if the tires sink your done.
 

Herbie

Rendezvous Conspirator
Much like the apocryphal Eskimos and their snow, there are a LOT of different kinds of sand...

Most of the time, having good contact patch for flotation is adequate, and 4WD is an optional thing. Then there's the times when you're running over well-used trails of silt and talc on what used to be ocean floor, then was a delta, and is now desert.

We've got a weird mix here. Sometimes you actually run better if you treat it like a dusting of fresh snow: skinnier tires that cut through the first couple of inches to the hard-pack underneath. 4Hi is nice to help pull you along a bit to keep the front ahead of the rear. Other times, it's like beach driving: Momentum and flotation is key. Until you stop. And you always have to stop, sooner or later.

I will say that I haven't needed 4Lo much in sand. In can be a detriment if you aren't careful and dig yourself in. That said, I will occasionally drop to low just to I can drive slower. My van isn't a prerunner truck, I can't fly over the rougher desert stuff. Going slower makes it easier on things mechanically, not to mention my wife is happier.
 

86cj

Explorer
Generally, the AWD systems do really well in sand.

My AWD Astro had a similar version of the transfer case in the AWD express, and it always did great in sand, until I went 4WD. I don't know if there were any viscous-coupled AWD Express vans, which would have been awesome. Instead, I think all the Express AWD use the electronic AWD system. Basically there's a clutch pack and a shifter motor, and the TCCU controls the shifter motor to send power when needed. That behavior is determined by relative wheel speeds, etc.

On the Astro version (NV136), I know people occasionally found the shifter motor to be a failure spot, even with normal driving (given enough time), which is why some of us went to a more conventional 4WD TC.

Since I've gone to a 2-speed transfer case, I just run 4Hi when I'm in the sand now. Works also, but it's different.

I don't know about awesome but the viscous-coupled transfer-case just does it's job and get's a bad rap for it, yes it goes very well in the sand and in snow it's better than any 4 high I have driven. If you know you don't have 4 low going in to a bad spot, you will find the AWD 1500 is likely to make through whatever you point it at. Crawling around in the rocks will heat up the trans and kill your brakes so yea 4 low is better and I might do the super easy T-case swap, but for mild trails so far so good...:ylsmoke:.........................



The AWD transfer case is a Borg-Warner 4473, this is the best info I could find and there is a test at the end:



Transfer Case Description and Operation
General Description

The Borg Warner (BW) model 4473 RPO NP3 transfer case is a 1-speed, full time AWD, transfer case. The BW 4473 provides 1 operating mode, 4HI full-time AWD. The transfer case has a planetary differential gear set, which provides a 35 percent/65 percent torque split, front/rear, full time. Both axles are constantly being driven for maximum traction, and the best balance of vehicle handling characteristics under all operating conditions is provided.

The BW 4473 case halves are high-pressure die-cast aluminium. The transfer case requires DEXRON®VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) GM P/N 88861003 (Canadian P/N 88861004), which is red in color.


Object Number: 851792 Size: LF
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

The power flows from the transmission to the transfer case input shaft (1). The input shaft (1) delivers the power to the planetary center differential (4), which splits the torque 35 percent through the differential pinion gears (Cool to the front sun gear (7), through the sprocket drive (2), via the chain (10) to the front output shaft (9) and to the front propeller shaft. 65 percent of the torque is delivered to the rear output, which goes through the differential ring gear (6), which is connected to the rear output shaft (5), and to the rear propeller shaft.

The viscous coupling (3), torque biasing device, has a series of opposing discs which are attached to the front and rear output shafts. 1 set turns with the front axle and the 1 set turns with the rear axle. The viscous coupling has a sealed housing, which is filled with high viscosity silicone fluid. When there is a speed difference between front and rear axles, the inner and outer plates of the coupling turn relative to each other. The silicone fluid provides resistance to the speed difference, and torque is transferred to the axles to equalize the speed difference. The tuning of the coupling is such that binding is not felt in tight turns, on dry surfaces, while being high enough to bias torque quickly to the wheels that have traction in a vehicle slip event. If the speed difference between the axles is high, the viscous coupling can go into hump mode. This occurs when the heat generated by the high speed difference expands the viscous fluid in the coupling, which results in pressure between the plates, forcing them in to contact each other, similar to a clutch pack. In the hump mode, the coupling can bias torque 100 percent to 1 axle. To prevent damage to the viscous coupling, the following should be avoided in the vehicle:

• Do not tow with only 2 wheels on the ground.
• Do not drive with 1 propeller shaft removed.
• Do not drive with a mini spare tire for any extended period of time.
• Do not operate the vehicle on a hoist to diagnose the driveline components.

Customers may have concern that the transfer case is not operating properly, because 1 set of tires spun for a brief period. It is normal for 1 set of tires to spin until the viscous coupling engages. Turning off the traction control switch, if equipped, enhances the function of the viscous coupling. The viscous coupling, as described above, engages by heat. Allowing 1 set of tires to spin or slip for a very brief period, generates heat in the viscous coupling. The engine speed should be kept at a constant speed during the brief spin of the tires. Feathering the engine speed, or hard acceleration, will not allow the viscous coupling to operate properly.
Power Flow - No Wheel Slip


Object Number: 851796 Size: LF
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

During normal operation, 100 percent engine torque is delivered to the input shaft (1) from the transmission. The torque is split 65 percent to the rear output shaft (5), and 35 percent to the front output shaft (9), by the planetary differential (4). Because there is not a loss in traction, or slip in the front or rear wheels, the viscous coupling (3) is locked in place and there is no shear mode or hump mode involved.
Power Flow - Front Wheel Slip


Object Number: 851797 Size: LF
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

When traction is lost at the front wheels, the viscous coupling (3) works in conjunction with the planetary differential (4) to bias the torque more to the rear wheels. The rear torque goes higher than 65 percent, up to 100 percent torque to the rear output shaft (5). The torque at the front output shaft (9) is lowered from 35 percent, to as low as 0 percent torque.
Power Flow - Rear Wheel Slip


Object Number: 851798 Size: LF
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

When traction is lost at the rear wheels, the torque is biased to the front wheels. The torque to the front output shaft (9) goes higher than 35 percent, up to 100 percent. The torque at the rear output shaft (5) is lowered from 65 percent, to as low as 0 percent torque.




Sending power to the axle WITH traction sounds like a good thing to me, staying steady on the gas and using a little momentum might be enough to get most people in and out of the back country, it's working for me so far.........
 
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hitekhobo

Public Lands Accessor
It's pretty great in sand. We have driven our AWD savana down to Big Shell in Padre Island (30 miles of loose sand - one way - 60mi round trip) multiple times without issue.
Spent last four months last winter down in baja driving numerous beaches with loose sand. We watched a xpcamper get stuck in a spot that we'd gone over a few times. Pulled out about 8 stuck rigs while in Baja. We almost got stuck once, and then we aired down. Mud on the other hand.... well once we got stuck in a bog and had mud to the wheel wells. Ack!

I should add that we have the G80 RPO Code - Locking rear differential.

One of our free campsites in Baja Sur. You can see how deep the sand gets by looking at the ruts above and behind the roof.
20150227_112942.jpg
 
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