Bogart Engineering new Solar Controller...Comments?

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Rbertalotto

Explorer
I bought a Forest River Grey Wolf Cherokee 19RR Toy Hauler and I will be adding solar. My truck camper had a 120w panel and a Morningstar PWM controller and a Bogart Trimetric monitor system. Worked fantastic with one battery and the minimal demands of a truck camper. This TH will see more people in it and more off grid demands.

My plan is two batteries (12v) and two 140 watt panels.

For control and monitoring I'm planning on the new Bogart SC-2030 solar controller and the
Bogart TM-2030A monitor system. I'll also have a Xantrex ProWatt Sw1000 inverter which I used in the TC with great results.

Anyone have any experience with this controller? Any comments on what you read below?

Thanks!

http://www.bogartengineering.com/content/solar-charger

SC-2030 SOLAR CHARGER — 30 AMPS MAX- 12 OR 24V PWM TYPE

The SC-2030 Solar Charger, working with the TM-2030 battery monitor has unusual benefits that can extend the life of your battery system. When designing the SC-2030 we checked many battery company websites, and spoke with experts in their companies to find out what they recommend for charging before we designed it. Many solar charge controllers have very limited ability to adjust--a few even charge with voltage that is lower than what any battery company recommends.

As a result of this research we've added two unusual features to insure that batteries are not damaged by over or under charging:

1.Amp hour counting: During a discharge period it measures precisely the amount of previous discharge, and then when recharging adds back the same amount plus an additional measured percentage of charge: for liquid electrolyte lead acid batteries about 110-120%--or for AGM types about 104-109%.

2. Also unusual in chargers, but frequently now recommended to maintain battery capacity is an extra higher voltage "mini equalization" finishing stage. During the last part of the charge it can increase charging voltage (at a regulated low current value) to avoid undercharge during a limited solar day. (This is sometimes called "IUI" charging.)

To match any battery type it has 8 adjustable charging parameters. To make installing these values easy, select one of 18 "battery profles" which will automatically install all these values for your particular batteries. After doing this, experts with special requirements may modify any of these.

All this is controlled by the TM-2030 Battery Monitor located in your living area--connected with a common phone cable to the SC-2030 usually located near the batteries. So in addition to high quality charging you also get all the benefits of the TM-2030 monitoring system: volts, battery amps, solar amps, extra unused power, replaced percent of charge compared to previous discharge, extra unused solar power, battery temperature and more.
 
R

Rbertalotto

Explorer
Interesting...I just found this info on the Bogart charge controller....

pre-absorb boost charging is not recommended by any battery manufacturers that I know of. It only works on batteries that have been moderately cycled where it can be used to take advantage of peak solar conditions at solar noon, and without excessive heating of the battery. For batteries that have been discharged to 50% SOC it will get your battery way too hot by forcing too many amps into it at the higher boost voltage for the first hour.

Finish charging (delayed boost) is different. It is an algorithm designed to limit current to the battery to no more than C/10 to prevent excessive water use and heating of the battery. And at the same time provide a high voltage finish stage that fully desulfates the negative plates. It is now almost the industry standard recommend charge profile (Trojan, US Battery, Surrette, and all industrial forklift/floor maintenance, locomotive and marine batteries). Industrial grid-powered forklift/floor maintenance and marine chargers have used it for years (IUIa with no float). Currently there are only two RE chargers that I know of that can do it - the XW from Schneider and the SC-2030 from Bogart. Of the two, only the Bogart SC-2030 does it correctly.
 
Herbie

Herbie

Rendezvous Conspirator
Interesting.

Looks like it will run you ~$277 for both the controller and monitor (and you'll need the monitor to get the fancy charging algorithms), which I think is a bit more than a comparable Monitor/controller combo from Morningstar or the like, but not out of the ballpark.
 
Haf-E

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
Rbertalotto said:
pre-absorb boost charging is not recommended by any battery manufacturers that I know of. It only works on batteries that have been moderately cycled where it can be used to take advantage of peak solar conditions at solar noon, and without excessive heating of the battery. For batteries that have been discharged to 50% SOC it will get your battery way too hot by forcing too many amps into it at the higher boost voltage for the first hour.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any information on the "pre-absorb boost" - is that just another term for bulk charging? i.e. the first stage where full current of the solar array is supplied to the battery? Usually the size of the solar array is limited to the maximum acceptable charge rate of the battery in full sun - so I don't think it will cause excessive heating of the battery.

Am I missing something here? I did search the Bogart manual and didn't see a reference to "pre-absorb boost" or anything similar...
 
228B

228B

Observer
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I'm with Hal... I think that any "boost" reference might come from what is a similar deal w/ MPPT technology in solar charge controllers.
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I have a shore-power charger (when not using solar) that will deliver 50 amps to it's factory-intended AGM battery (EnerSys OMAX and SearsDieHardPlatinum/Odyssey) during the "bulk" charge phase. Talk about boost...
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I'm a big fan of HandyBob, and he has mucho respect for the Trimetric series of gadgetry... if I were to do it all over again (new system in another trailer) I'd go the Bogart Engineering route! but use AGM batteries (a simple preference).
 
L

LeishaShannon

Adventurer
Choice of controller really depends on the panels you've chosen. If they have a high Vmp (likely for a 140W panel) then you'll be better served by a programmable MPPT controller like the Victrons.
A PWM controller wastes the voltage between the panels Vmp and the battery voltage. So if the Vmp of the panel is 18v and your battery is charging at 14v... The PWM controller is wasting almost 30% of the panels output.
If the panel has a low Vmp PWM might be a suitable option, but generally a higher Vmp panel with MPPT is a better solution across the wide range of climate conditions experienced when travelling.
 
R

Rbertalotto

Explorer
I just picked up two Group31 AGM Duracell batteries at Sam's Club for $179 each............But I had to search a bunch of Sam's Clubs to find them. Seems they will not be offering them any longer or at least not at this price.

As far as PWM vs MPPT...There is a whole page in the Bogart manual that explains that for a smaller system of a few hundred watts, a PWM is a better choice. I'm not sure I understand what the heck they are talking about, but they are adamant about it....:)
 
Haf-E

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
MPPT is critical if your PV module is higher voltage - as in 30V rated (Vmp = Voltage at Max Power) which is common for PV modules once you get over 120 watts or so. A PWM controller only works with PV modules that have similar voltages as the battery - so a Vmp of 16 to 18 volts max. For crystalline type PV modules this would be one with 30 to 36 cells. If the panel have more cells than that then a MPPT type controller is needed.

MPPT also helps a lot when the panels are cold and the battery is low - which is common in winter conditions.

The higher cell count PV modules are cheaper per watt then the lower cell count modules - you can get a 60 cell PV module rated at 250 to 300 watts for as little as $0.65 / watt these days. 12vdc modules (with 36 cells) often cost twice as much as they are being produced in lower quantities.

I like the Bogart products - but think that this is a situation where I would still go with a 60 cell PV module and a small MPPT such as offered by Morningstar or similar.
 
R

Rbertalotto

Explorer
Thanks Haf-E...Very informative.

Here are the panels I'll be using......comments?

P9020037vi-vi.jpg


Hope I bought the correct stuff as my install is about 80% done!

http://rvbprecision.com/diesel-stuf.../solar-install-grey-wolf-19rr-toy-hauler.html
 
228B

228B

Observer
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I just looked at your webpage. Everything looks good; excellent components, big-enough copper stranded, etc. The only area I can see that might be improved upon are the crimps of the 10 ga PV feed at the junction box and that I would have used an adhesive heat-shrink tubing to seal the crimps from potential corrosion. If you have any! problems with this system in the future it won't be from the Trimetric stuff or the panels, it would be with the cable-to-lug interface either loosening or suffering from corrosion. There is a science to "the crimp".
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I'm envious, otherwise, of your installation! Good stuff!
 
L

LeishaShannon

Adventurer
adam88 said:
I spent 10 minutes surfing through this site and couldn't find anything except rants lol. Is there a certain page to view for info on this stuff?
Click to expand...

SolarBob has spent too much time in the sun.....

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Book-Energy-Unlimited-EN.pdf has some great info on *lead batteries
http://www.victronenergy.com/upload...Which-solar-charge-controller-PWM-or-MPPT.pdf covers MPPT and PWM charging

And if you're still thirsty http://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/technical-information and http://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/whitepapers cover even more electrical stuff :)
 
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