Add to my growing issues w/ the Sport, new clattering noise

redraif

The uphill battle begins
Sport xls 3.0L auto 4wd. 245,000 miles. Timing belt done at 225,000 miles with Water pump. New water pump 3000 miles ago due to seal failure. less than 1000 miles ago (beginning of August) crank shaft pulley bolt backed out. Was reinstalled by a friend and truck has been 100% since, till this noise.

So this clattering type noise just started this past week out of the blue. Its only when the truck is cold. AC is off. After a good drive its quiet. This is not the normal ticking you get either at cold start or a thrown rod sound. (yes I heard that before... 2 different engines. Will never forget the rocks in a dry sound) Checked the oil as it will make some nasty ticking when it gets low. It was a touch low, so I topped it off, but not enough to account for this. (On a side note... Tracking the leak is no fun. 14 cans of brake cleaner and about 5 hours of wiping and scrubbing to get the oil residue gone, just to try to track the leak. UGH! I hate previous owners who neglect things and shops that don't wipe things down when they take things apart.)

Anyway, I digress, the noise. Due to recently throwing the crank pulley I checked it first. Solid as a rock! :) Its not wobbling either. To describe the noise, it sounds like plastic hitting something. Think card in bicycle spokes. First thing I looked at was to see if the fan was making contact with anything. Like a small stick or something to that effect...nada Belts don't appear to be making contact with anything. Can't see anything hitting any pulleys. Not sure what to make of the noise.

A friend came by and took a listen. used the screwdriver trick. He detected a noise on the driver side of the timing cover. He shifted it towards the pass side and it went away. Looks like the timing cover might be cracked, or is it seamed at the passenger side valve cover? Thought that was it. But it did it again at next cold start. I checked the timing cover... nope not it. (The truck had actually been driven the morning prior to him listening to it, so it was apparently not presenting itself fully.)

So I videoed the noise in hopes someone would have some insight before I have to give it to a shop to track the noise. Back of my mind said could it be something with the fan? the clutch going out? Been having some issues with cooling at idle in traffic on 90+ degree days. It gets to the 3/4 mark, but not over. Resolves as soon as the truck is moving again. But I do have a 2 inch body lift and have the lower bottom edge of the fan shroud off to clear the fan.

First video: at the wheel wells and through the grill. Did not thing to video the engine bay.
https://youtu.be/D8MZdwQcmdw

Second video: engine bay level. throttled it up a bit, but it stays consist ant with the RPMs and does nothing telling.
https://youtu.be/3TjLjnRFyDc

Third video: at home after errands fully warmed up. No noise.
https://youtu.be/UJqzrPywOz0
 

redraif

The uphill battle begins
No tensioners were replaced. I went back and looked the service ticket. Water pump, cam seals, valve cover gaskets, belt.... no tensioners. Are they typically replaced at each belt replacement?

Would one of them make that kind of noise? Is there any way to verify since they are all covered by the timing cover?
 

TheMole

Adventurer
Yes usually replaced for peace of mind since everything is already apart. I've only went as far as replacing the valve cover gaskets on these engines so not sure if there is a way to verify. Maybe someone else can chime in and verify the sound.
 

BOPOH

Explorer
that's no good, i'm doing timing belt on my sport and my tensioner is bad - really bad. I dont know how but i was driving this truck with no issues.

It could be a bad valve lash adjuster that requires a lot of constant oil pressure to function properly, and not filling up while engine is cold. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/124234-1989-V6-Servicing-your-Hydraulic-Lash-Adjusters
OR it could be your tensioner on/off. i can't explain but i know my tensioner was either completely compress or fully extended like it was good
 

BOPOH

Explorer
Yes usually replaced for peace of mind since everything is already apart. I've only went as far as replacing the valve cover gaskets on these engines so not sure if there is a way to verify. Maybe someone else can chime in and verify the sound.

there is a way to verify, but it takes some time. you have to remove all belts, alternator, fan, steering pump and remove big bracket(pg 103) that holds SP and fan. Behind that big bracket you can clearly see tensioner

If you want i can take pictures tonight to help you understand. I'm exactly at that spot right now, crank bolt wouldn't move so i'm waiting for heavy duty impact gun.
 
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redraif

The uphill battle begins
Pictures would be great since you are already there. Thank you! Not sure if I am quite brave enough for this though... LOL! Yipes!
 

TheMole

Adventurer
there is a way to verify, but it takes some time. you have to remove all belts, alternator, fan, steering pump and remove big bracket(pg 103) that holds SP and fan. Behind that big bracket you can clearly see tensioner

If you want i can take pictures tonight to help you understand. I'm exactly at that spot right now, crank bolt wouldn't move so i'm waiting for heavy duty impact gun.

Sounds like a lot to remove! I'm sure the op, members, and myself would appreciate the pics if not too much trouble.
 

BOPOH

Explorer
Here is the bracket i was talking about

IMG_1918_zpsfbkqjvln.jpg


Notice i had to unbolt steering pump but not disconnect from any hoses, unfortunately alternator has to come off completely

IMG_1924_zps9ojycl7i.jpg


This is what i should look like with out the bracket, sorry i didn't remove my tools. I took out radiator for clearance but you dont have to do it, crank bolt wasn't co-operating

IMG_1921_zpskg23io74.jpg


Under passenger side cam you will find tensioner and you want to see metal rod in the circle. When i first got to it there was no gap, meaning my tensioner compressed - FAILED

b66baeff-1abd-4947-a1f4-b1759b6c3106_zpsxl7da4ln.jpg
 

redraif

The uphill battle begins
thank you for the pictures... that helps to know. Yes a lot of work to see if its ok... whew!
 

BEG

Adventurer
The pics above show a hydraulic timing tensioner. Doesn't the 3.0 SOHC (6g72) have a spring tensioner, like so?:

DCP_1067.jpg


An easy way to tell is to look for the tail of the hydraulic tensioner sticking out of the lower timing cover on the passenger side. If you don't see it, you have a spring tensioner, which is much easier to trouble shoot.

Either way, getting to it is a pain but it's not complicated. You have to remove a lot of stuff. If you suspect it's a timing belt tension issue, the sound might be a slack belt hitting the timing cover because of a loose pulley bolt.
 

redraif

The uphill battle begins
Either way when the dang tech was in there 2-3000 miles ago he should have noticed if that tensioner was ok or not. Same idiot that left the crank bolt under tq spec. I'm going to scream if it is the tensioner. Honestly this is why I only trust the shop owner to work on my rig. It takes a lot for me to trust anybody with anything of mine for this very reason. Sloppy rushed work... overlooking things... grrr
 

BEG

Adventurer
Either way when the dang tech was in there 2-3000 miles ago he should have noticed if that tensioner was ok or not. Same idiot that left the crank bolt under tq spec. I'm going to scream if it is the tensioner. Honestly this is why I only trust the shop owner to work on my rig. It takes a lot for me to trust anybody with anything of mine for this very reason. Sloppy rushed work... overlooking things... grrr

Spring tensioners don't usually fail compared to hydraulic ones. The spring only sets the initial tension on the belt. Once the pulley bolt is tightened, the spring is out of the equation. There is a possibility that the pulley bolt wasn't correctly torqued, in which case the spring would be bouncing the pulley into the belt.
 

redraif

The uphill battle begins
if this was the case would the noise only be apparent at cold start up and quiet down once the engine is warm? that is the part that has me thrown for a loop. why does it quiet down
 

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