gas vs diesel

Jason911

Adventurer
The only real negative per say to throw at diesel - and I own and have owned more than a few - is that outside of the US/Canada and western Europe is the distinct lack ultra low sulphur diesel(ULSD), which can wreck havoc on modern diesels.
 
I have to go against the grain here and vote for gas. I never have understood the fascination with diesel- most overland trailers are not more than 3k lbs loaded. Gas is easy to find and its generally less expensive to get into in the first place. If you are towing a large trailer or something, I can see the 'need' for diesel. The one thing that most people don't consider about a diesel is the noise and odor (unless its very new, it will be noisy). I don't like them for overlanding/camping because of how loud they are. Once travelled with a guy in an early cummins powered truck. Even though we were remote, scenery was great, weather was great, and the company was great, every time we stopped, all you could hear was the loud diesel engine. Also the exhaust gets smelly. We never 'snuck up' on any wildlife because they heard us miles away. It was like a travelling truck stop, we brought the noise of civilization with us.
Anyway, just my 2c.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
For simplicity gas. For range diesel. I've spent enough time along the east side of the sierras and in some fairly remote areas of Eastern Oregon and Washington to know the value of range even with a gas car. Especially if your doing some exploring and are not all that familiar with the distances and fuel options the lack of range can actually effect your decisions to continue to a place you would like to go see but your not all that confident in your fuel situation. If you need to back track for fuel most people will just wave off that one more place you want to go see and just skip that adventure etc. I like exploring with my Subaru given I can run 520 miles on a tank rarely ever is fuel much of a concern. With my Land Cruiser at 13mpg my trips were more like tours of gas stations with side jaunts to near by points of interest. LOL

I think it depends on what region you go exploring many areas of the US have plenty of fuel options and range isn't a big deal for those folks. Where as other places fuel vs go or turn back can actually be a large part of the trip decisions and lets be honest isn't fun having to pack it in because your running low on fuel.

I like the diesel for the range and I'd take the diesel option if your doing lots of high altitude passes they just do better for that sort of stuff. The downer being modern diesels are not cheap to purchase, potentially can be costly to fix if you have a fuel issue so they come with negatives too.

Its funny in the sailboat world many smaller boat owners fear the diesel inboards more so because people just are not familiar with them and everyone wants a gas outboard. I've lived with both and to be honest the diesel is far far easier to maintain way way more reliable and WAY WAY more efficient than the outboard. Given the choice I'd rather have the little inboard chugger diesel over the Honda outboard hung off the back. Granted you get into the small boats The little 2hp honda or little 5hp hondas are great engines and just go and go. But they do require more fuel and do need some TLC to keep them happy.
 

punisher1130

Adventurer
For simplicity gas. For range diesel. I've spent enough time along the east side of the sierras and in some fairly remote areas of Eastern Oregon and Washington to know the value of range even with a gas car. Especially if your doing some exploring and are not all that familiar with the distances and fuel options the lack of range can actually effect your decisions to continue to a place you would like to go see but your not all that confident in your fuel situation. If you need to back track for fuel most people will just wave off that one more place you want to go see and just skip that adventure etc. I like exploring with my Subaru given I can run 520 miles on a tank rarely ever is fuel much of a concern. With my Land Cruiser at 13mpg my trips were more like tours of gas stations with side jaunts to near by points of interest. LOL

I think it depends on what region you go exploring many areas of the US have plenty of fuel options and range isn't a big deal for those folks. Where as other places fuel vs go or turn back can actually be a large part of the trip decisions and lets be honest isn't fun having to pack it in because your running low on fuel.

I like the diesel for the range and I'd take the diesel option if your doing lots of high altitude passes they just do better for that sort of stuff. The downer being modern diesels are not cheap to purchase, potentially can be costly to fix if you have a fuel issue so they come with negatives too.

Its funny in the sailboat world many smaller boat owners fear the diesel inboards more so because people just are not familiar with them and everyone wants a gas outboard. I've lived with both and to be honest the diesel is far far easier to maintain way way more reliable and WAY WAY more efficient than the outboard. Given the choice I'd rather have the little inboard chugger diesel over the Honda outboard hung off the back. Granted you get into the small boats The little 2hp honda or little 5hp hondas are great engines and just go and go. But they do require more fuel and do need some TLC to keep them happy.


You lost me with the boat stuff, only thing I know bout boats is they are fun in water lol.
 

Ozrockrat

Expedition Leader
Since you can maintain it yourself I would suggest the main real benefit of the diesel is the torque available low in the rev range. It makes driving these overloaded beasts we call expedition rigs easier over crappy road and through sand.

The offset is the higher maintenance repair cost.

Another benefit is that diesel is safer to carry in external fuel containers. But again that is offset by the stink etc.
 

punisher1130

Adventurer
Since you can maintain it yourself I would suggest the main real benefit of the diesel is the torque available low in the rev range. It makes driving these overloaded beasts we call expedition rigs easier over crappy road and through sand.

The offset is the higher maintenance repair cost.

Another benefit is that diesel is safer to carry in external fuel containers. But again that is offset by the stink etc.


Good point since diesel only ignites under compression.
 

punisher1130

Adventurer
Not under compression. thats just the heat source so its ignited inside an engine.
Diesel ignites with an ignition source and fuel exceeding about 120 deg F.
Or it auto-ignites about 460 deg F. The rapid compression within an engine must exceed its auto-ignition temperature.
These numbers vary somewhat depending upon the precise blend of diesel, and atmospheric pressure.

Gasoline btw, flashpoint is somewhere around -40 deg F.

Diesel is far safer than gasoline, but still easily ignited.

That's the technical explanation, I was being simple.
 

S2DM

Adventurer
I'd say you should add a few more clarifiers in terms of what you are planning on doing, rig size, weight, planned destination. Also keep in mind most of what I say is about expedition camper sized rigs. If I started over, I'd probably be in a diesel sprinter 4x4, but not for the diesel, just because the whole package appeals to me. I'm trying to convince my GF we need both :)

We struck out somewhat against the grain went with a gas engine in our f550. Our camper is relatively light, has low wind resistance due to the pop up, is mostly used for short trips, and doubles as our farm truck daily driver for short trips into town. Diesel had almost no real advantage for us.

Reasoning

1) If you are planning third world travel, ULSD is uncommon at best. Despite what others may say, the only way to travel safely under these conditions is to remove most of your exhaust system, I.E. DPF delete etc. It is up to the individual whether you are comfortable with that, but atleast in California, they are becoming more stringent about tracking if that has been done to the vehicle.

2) Ease of finding a reliable Mechanic. New diesels are incredibly complicated, on the 550, I couldn't reach my arm anywhere in the engine compartment of the 6.7, its a solid wall of components. The gas engine by comparison doesnt require the entire cab coming off to work on it. Trying to find a guy to work on the 6.7 on a beach in baja is an endeavor to say the least.

3) Weight of the rig - If you are building a rig that has a camper dry weight in excess of say 4500 lbs, then the added torque of the diesel may be very useful. I wouldnt want to be driving an 18000lb vehicle up mountain passes at US highway speeds. Our camper only weighs about 4000 wet, so the torque of the 6.8 gas engine is plenty for our needs.

4) MPG new trucks- think long and hard about this one and do the research. The gap in MPG in a new diesel vs a new gas in an expedition camper sized rig (its also narrower in expedition trucks, just not as narrow) is not all that great anymore. Like 2-3 mpg. Diesel definitely carries much more energy per gallon (147k BTUs vs 125k for gas), but in a modern truck, much of that energy is gain is lost in the emissions equipment. It definitely pains me to see 8-10mpg with the camper on, but a new earthroamer gets 10mpg (although it is several thousand pounds heavier). Comparing notes with other travelers, I think we would have gotten 10-12 with the diesel in our rig. Plenty of cost comparisons out there which break down while the MPG difference in diesel never pays itself off. Thats not to say there aren't reasons to buy diesels, I think there are plenty based on the rig, but $ savings on gas over the life of the vehicle isnt one of them.

5) MPG old trucks - Its true you can get significantly better mileage in an older diesel, but that means 2007 and older, to get the 14-16 mpgs that people are quoting. Whether this matters to you or not is up to you, so don't flame me for saying it, but it also means you are driving a vehicle with significantly higher emissions. To get good gas mileage on a diesel means higher emissions, no way around it. It mattered to us.

6) MPG clarifier - diesel really shines in longevity and MPG when the engine is up to operating temp. I.E. most of the returns on the diesel investment come in that zone when you've been driving the truck for over 30 minutes. The diesels don't love sitting, nor do they like the 10 minute trip. If you are doing long trips all the time, thats where most of the benefits of a diesel when come in. If you occasionally do long trips, but a lot of shorter ones like we do, just down the road to the beach for the weekend and then home, you aren't going to see as big a difference in mpg numbers, and you are going to see increased maintenance costs.

7) Driveability - to my mind, this is the biggest win for diesel. Above 13k pounds total vehicle weight, the diesel really does drive like its not carrying anything over the gas engine which you can hear and feel working. My 6.8 pulled our camper, a 3k trailer and another vehicle just fine, but I was aware of it. A gas engine you will hear working more, revving harder etc. For me, that was an ok trade off, others hate it.

8) Carrying capacity - another win for diesel. With unleaded, and I'm not totally sure on this, but have been told the limit in a primary, non transfer flow type tank, is 40 gallons in a full size pu. Due to the low flammability, it is common to see diesel trucks with larger main tanks as well as mid ship tanks. The only thing about our truck I'm actually bummed about is that, low tank capacity.
 
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Rovertrader

Supporting Sponsor
I have traveled considerably world wide, both 4 wheels and 2, and must say- it depends! What vehicle, how big/heavy, especially what year, etc. In general terms, post '07, go petrol. '90-'06, likely petrol, but some good diesels, i.e.:7.3 and Cummins. Pre '90, diesel will be slow but likely bomb proof, i.e. MB 5cyl.
If truly being remote, the fewer sensors/electronics, the better. The good news for petrol post '96 is OBD-II which helps considerably diagnosing, and getting correct parts if being flown in. The good news pre '90 is carbs- while a pain at times, serviceable, which means you get home.
This topic goes on and on, and there are good arguments for many scenarios, but notice how many categories exist on Portal! Drive what you feel comfortable working on, and in your case, what you have seen in for repairs the least. Some vehicles like Defenders have a storied reputation because the bones are indestructible, and parts are available worldwide. Most reliable? No way. Most easily serviced anywhere by anyone, absolutely!
Main thing, be familiar with what you get, fix known deficiencies, carry minimal essential parts, decent set of tools, workshop manual, and just go, and go, and go. And remember- there are many things as important if not more so than petrol/diesel. Beam axle/IFS, suspension travel vs fully locked (Gwagons have the least travel known to mankind, yet soldier on being fully locked), etc, etc. No magic answer, no magic one size fits all. But alas, most any combo has been used successfully...
 

PPCLI_Jim

Adventurer
I have a 88 suzuki samurai with a 1.3 l gas motor , i am in the middle of a massive rebody /reworking / customization of it. while doing this I am swapping out the gas motor for a 1.9 td from VW, this will give me more range torque and power. along with being a mechanical diesel it will also be easier to get parts for it then the Samurai

DSC00015.jpg here it is stock with rubber.jpg after doing a bunch of bodywork (there was a stopsign for a passenger floor 3 types of pop cans for rear wheel wells and spray foam used to keep water out 0c6eff0a-379b-436c-a5df-ead98a43d515.jpg and the new body being reworked i have made a mini cab and will be stretching the rear 1 ft
 

ExplorerTom

Explorer
I vote gas.

Sure diesel has "more" range, but when I've popped out into some small mountain town to get gas, I can't say for sure that they also had a diesel pump. You might need that extra diesel range just to find it.

If your travels confine you to North America (and that's in no way a bad thing- tons of stuff to see and explore- way more than a lifetime's worth) then stick to gas. If you plan on traveling across Africa and might need to fill up with some less than ideal fuel, then diesel is better.

And let's say you do run out in the middle of nowhere in the US, the chances of a passerby with a gas can is better than a can of diesel.

And I see that you're from FL. Most of the people I know from FL can't function in weather below 0 degrees. Depending on where (and when) your travels take you, that diesel might not function too well either.
 

uncompromise

Adventurer
I'd say you should add a few more clarifiers in terms of what you are planning on doing, rig size, weight, planned destination. Also keep in mind most of what I say is about expedition camper sized rigs. If I started over, I'd probably be in a diesel sprinter 4x4, but not for the diesel, just because the whole package appeals to me.

This was an exceptional answer. As a relative newby to this forum, it's these sorts of detailed, considered answers that make being here worthwhile. I drive an 81 Mercedes 300D diesel sedan and it's likely to hit 500,000 miles before the engine gives out. I get north of 20mpg. I have an 84 E350 Ambulance with a V8 460 that could tow a tank up a hill - that gets me about 12mpg (it's lightly loaded) I've been considering buying a 91 E350 with a v8 and 5.3l gas engine which will get around 10mpg, but now I'm thinking that I'm going to let that one go.

I mention all that because the question of diesel vs gas has plagued me for a long time - especially regarding range - and I've been stuck trying to ask the right questions to get to a decent quality answer.
 

punisher1130

Adventurer
Though I do appreciate the info, this post was mainly to see the opinions of those who have ran both and which seemed to work well in different terrains. Personally I have a 99 Dakota with a 5.2 getting about 16mpg (if I'm easy on it), for me to do the swap id look at a 4bt with no electronics but that also greatly depends if I have the truck long enough to get the money to even get just the motor lol. I was just curious in this post to see if it mattered one way or another.
 

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