Shopping for a Disco

99Discovery

Adventurer
Here are some thoughts:

1) Newish isn't "bestish". As the old Rover V8 line came to an end, worn manufacturing parts really screwed up tolerances. Later model 4.6s (especially) and 4.0s are notorious for slipped liners causing expensive $5k Top-Hat engine replacements. Allegedly, it got so bad that as blocks were tested all of the good 4.6s were set aside for Rangies, while the Disco ones got "marginal". There is plenty of online evidence to backup issues with 2003/4 D2 blocks being nightmares. You almost never hear about slipped liners on earlier D1s and Classics, and early D2s it seems less common (but head gaskets are still an issue.)

2) Records, Records, Records. The headgasket design and cooling system are issues. At this age, it's best to just budget $800 and go through the cooling system. New everything, from fan-clutch to radiator, and all the hoses. BUY THE TD5 (turbo-diesel) Thermostat! It's a 180 T-stat and will help save your block from the dreaded (and sometimes inevitable) liner slip. Buy an ultraguage. The temp guage on the D2 does not work. It only moves AFTER you have a problem. As soon as I plugged mine in, I discovered a bad thermostat sticking which was getting my temps to dangerous levels...without me knowing. Dumped in a TD5 T-stat, and I rarely go above 200F, including 4-wheeling in Moab heat. The heater still works too, so don't worry about that.

3) Proper Oil. This is a flat-tapped motor. 15W40 Rotella Diesel Oil and/or Delo 400 are recommended. The Rotella 5w40 synthetic is expensive but also very good. Notice that the temp. range for 15W40 doesn't go below 32F. If you are in a cold climate, you will need to swap to a 5w30 "SJ" spec (this is an older specification, I've found that Napa non-synthetic to match it) in order to meet the requirements in the owner's manual. Always get the biggest oil filters (they aren't too bad). If you don't believe this can be an issue, look up camshaft and lifter issues on the Rover V8. Remember, the Rover V8 is a Buick V8 from the 60s that Land Rover modified by changing ignition systems and fuel injection over the years. It has an AWESOME torque band for off-roading, but other than that.....it sucks. Like you'd expect from a 50 year old design: Horrible gas mileage, down on power, requires premium fuel, etc. But it is aluminum (weight), and that torque curve is awesome when in 4-lo.

4) CDL. If you intend to Overland, the CDL is an invaluable traction aid. The Center Diff Lock is available on 99s and up to 2000 I believe. All you need is a $300 Ashcroft kit (I did the D1 swap...not recommended, spend double on the cable), a few hours in your garage, and you have the CDL. If you get '01-'03 you will need to spend thousands on a T-case swap. If you get an '04, you'll have the T-case from the factory...........but start budgeting for that $5k top-hat engine replacement instead...

5) Front Drive Shaft. The sealed bearings on the front double Cardon shaft are nice....in theory. In practice, the cats are so close it over-heats the grease and the U-joints dry up and sieze. If not caught in time, they typically fail on the interstate (high speed) and the shaft swings like a club taking the front half of your tranny with it, and possibly denting your floorplan. You need to get it rebuild with serviceable joints INCLUDING THE CENTERING BALL (I know Great Basin Rovers has serviceable parts, that's where I got mine). You'll need a special needle fitting to put grease in the centering ball and then you are on your own to grease the shaft every 5k or so miles. Then you should be fine. Or you can spend more more money on a sealed shaft and just pre-emptivly replace it every 70k miles. Your pick. The stock shaft seems to be good between 70-140k miles. In other words, after 70k you are rolling the dice...

6) Rear flex-disc. Not that critical, but still a semi-pricey part. The rear flex-disc on the driveshaft can develop cracking and eventually fail. If you look under your vehicle often, you should be able to catch this one in time (mine is cracking right now). Just be aware.

7) Check your low-range shifter. Most have never been used and can freeze. They can even break if you are unfortunate and apply too much force. When you put in the CDL makes sure you remove the interlock solenoid. It has a tendency to fail and you are stuck in whatever gear it was in (including neutral), until you tear apart your dash to get to it. Extremely difficult (and dangerous if in neutral) to do on the trail.

8) 3-Amigos. Your traction Control system (3-lights generally indicate a problem: ABS, Engine Light, and BRAKE). The best way to keep up on this system? Spin the tires and engage the traction control ocassionally! It appears that city driven cars that never activate the TC have the valve body go bad and stuff. They can be rebuild, but again it's cost and $$. You do NOT want to permenantly disable traction control. Why? It protects your weak drive-shafts. A locked Disco 2 on stock shafts tend to shear axles. HD axles are available for $$ for those building rock crawler rigs. You can get 90% of the performance at a much reduced cost by going with True-trac geared limited slips and keeping your traction control in place. This tends to protect the axles from over-load and if an axle does break, it won't destroy the diff. The stock Traction Control will generally protect the axles from shearing. Generally, the mode of failure is the spider gears (if you disable the TC, spider shearing chances are increased). A locked disco will just chew through axles until you upgrade to HD. I'm waiting for my spider gears to shred, then I'll get True-Tracs.

Ok.....so I make it sound like the D2 is kind of a POS. Well, it's not like it appeared on the 10-worst car lists of all time for no reason! They are

Sounds like the D2 is junk just waiting to break. In a way...yeah. Something is always broke, but it will rarely leave you stranded. If you MAINTAIN your vehicle, it will last a long time. I bought mine with records for $5k, used in Moab, and it's still the most reliable used car I've ever bought. If you don't want to pay attention and maintain it, you might was something else. If you love the car, it has loads of character, is actually really good off-road, it's a solid overland platform, and the notorious engine is perfect for this kind of duty. And the D2's can be had for very little money these days!!

If you want a bit more reliability, save your $$ for a Jag powered LR3!! (Later model after the diff issues were worked out).
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
It doesn't look to bad. I see one of the horn buttons has been ripped off. No pictures of the engine compartment though. No maintenance history, so I would have it checked out by a mechanic that knows land rovers.
 

brushogger

Explorer
I don't see the '03 listed now. I did see the '04.
http://www.keywestautosales.com/mobile/mdetails.aspx?VID=258284650

I had an '04 that succumbed to the slipped liners. Other than that, I loved it. Mine went at 70k miles. If this one has gone 130k miles, it's probably a good one. If there are no maintenance records, I'd baseline everything, do head gaskets if they haven't been done. Do the cooling sys upgrades mentioned in the previous post, and be prepared to spend $5k on a cannibal motor that already has liner fixes done . If there had been a kit to swap in a 4.3l v6, that correctly integrated all the electronics, I'd have kept mine.
 

Cobra_R

Adventurer
Here are some thoughts:


4) CDL. If you intend to Overland, the CDL is an invaluable traction aid. The Center Diff Lock is available on 99s and up to 2000 I believe. All you need is a $300 Ashcroft kit (I did the D1 swap...not recommended, spend double on the cable), a few hours in your garage, and you have the CDL. If you get '01-'03 you will need to spend thousands on a T-case swap. If you get an '04, you'll have the T-case from the factory...........but start budgeting for that $5k top-hat engine replacement instead...

Why do you say that the D1 CDL is not recommended? That's the route I was planning on going. Is the Ashcroft install that much simpler that the extra cost is justified?
 

Chazz Layne

Administrator
1) Newish isn't "bestish". As the old Rover V8 line came to an end, worn manufacturing parts really screwed up tolerances. Later model 4.6s (especially)

3) Proper Oil. This is a flat-tapped motor. 15W40 Rotella Diesel Oil and/or Delo 400 are recommended. The Rotella 5w40 synthetic is expensive but also very good.
Agreed on all but #1. Early in 2004 they got their mojo back (long backstory involving Ford meddling there) and started putting out good blocks again, so the last 2004s are the best of the bunch.

On #3 this is true for most of them, but keep an eye on it until you're sure. I was running 15W40 Rotella until about 30,000 ago and though it was quiet, the motor wasn't happy. It's been on Mobil1 0W40 synthetic ever since and couldn't be smoother.
 

99Discovery

Adventurer
Why do you say that the D1 CDL is not recommended? That's the route I was planning on going. Is the Ashcroft install that much simpler that the extra cost is justified?

A couple of reasons. 1) Will you get all the parts in your D1 salvage kit? I got all mine, but the rubber gaitor (water-proofing) was torn, so I have no water proofing at all. It allows a lot of noise in. Then you have to modify the shaft to fit. There are various ways to do this depending on your tools, etc. You can just bend the D1 shaft (if you have heat and are careful), I went with the swivel and an extension. It took quite awhile to line up and get smooth. Either way, you are going to be using trial and error to get the proper shape in order to actually twist the CDL.

Not to mention that you have to get the shifter adapter bolted on which requires more cutting than the Ashcroft unit.

At the end of the day, I spent $140 and a lot of hours fabbing and adjusting a system that in the end is inferior to the Ashcroft cable, which mimics the superior '04 cable setup in both reliability and ease of use. Even though it's double the price, you just bolt it on! I believe you still have to cut main plate so the shifter will move, but after that it's plug and pay. I'm a believer in DIY and saving money, but I'd do Ashcroft in a heartbeat next time. Just watch their video of the Ashcroft install. It's a huge time saver and appears to be a better design. Knowing what I know now...it just seems worth the extra $150.
 

99Discovery

Adventurer
I forgot to add..... If I wanted to replace the water-proof D1 gaitor, it would cost me $200 for the part, thus negating all my savings.

The Cable design is not connected to the T-case (so you don't get the noise and vibration transmitted) and is bolted from underneath the floorpan plate, just like the stock unit. It's already sealed by design.

So yeah....the cable design just seems better.

And when I got my D1 shifter? Frozen. It would not budge...it would break if I applied anymore force. So I had to grease and work it, grease and work it, penetrant oil and everything. I had forgotten that it took a couple of hours working the shifter just to free it up. That's on-top of all the time required to install it.

Love my CDL. Wish I'd had gone with the cable though...
 

Cobra_R

Adventurer
Interesting...thanks for the information. I may have to start considering the Ashcroft kit. I'm a believer in DIY too but if the Ashcroft setup is better in the long run ill go with that.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
Depends on the CDL kit. Are you gonna go straight into some moderate trails when you get it or are you just gonna drive this thing to some unimproved campsites? If you aren't gonna wheel the crap out of it, don't worry about getting the CDL initially. That can be further down the road. Initially, the traction control has enough capability to push a stock truck through mild obstacles without any trouble. Later on you can add the CDL.

Spend the $300 that you would on CDL and use that to pay for a off road driving class. Learning how to NOT get upside down in a raging river will serve you better than a CDL conversion.

Another thing, you are in Boise, ID. Google indicates there is an independent LR shop in your town. Treasure Valley British Automotive. Talk to them. They probably have a disco on consignment or knows someone who is looking to sell. Usually these shops are very well plugged into the market. Also with such a shop, there is a possibility of finding a vehicle already built to your liking. This will save you time and money and the cringe of cutting into a nice truck.

Or cut all the crap and buy a LR3. I'm finding them for under $10k and I'm thinking about putting the g/f in one (greatest evil plan ever to justify another rover).
 

Chazz Layne

Administrator
x2. I'm running T6 5w-40 full synthetic and have the oil analysis to prove the motor loves it.
This is what Land Rover recommends, so naturally the motor loves it. :)
I run 0W40 for a little extra room at the cold end of the scale for winters and altitude, otherwise I'd be on 5W40 myself.


Can you elaborate on this?
First let me just say the LR V8 can be happy on 15W40/Rotella so I'm not saying don't use it. Just know that neither oil is the "one true answer" some claim it to be, and read up on it before deciding if it's right for your situation.

Rotella is a good choice for extremely warm climates/seasons that regularly see temps in the hundreds, but overkill for most situations. Most folks who made the switch read interweb advice on fixing "noises" from the motor, and blindly followed the popular rhetoric that 15W40 is a miracle cure without understanding why (and in some cases, why not).

I was one of these folks, and was overjoyed when my flat tappet noise magically disappeared by pouring Rotella into the motor. Surely the Land Rover techs were peddling the wrong weights to us so they could sell us that extra bottle of goo at every oil change, and new motors when that watery stuff failed to protect the parts, right? In the long run the noise came back, the truck became a little harder to start, and there was a noticeable sluggishness which many were quick to blame on the motor being "tired" because I drive "fast."

They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem.
— Here's a great eye-opener on how oil really works: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

I've always run OEM-spec in my vehicles until following the advice on Rotella for the Disco. Trying the advice of the above articles, and with some hesitation at the thought of pouring "toyota water" into my manly diesel-oil-drinking Land Rover, I swapped it out for 0W40. Sure enough, not only did the noise not get worse, it went away permanently this time along with all the other symptoms.
 

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