Sears Diehard Platinum 31M issues

[Ducky's Dad]

My question is, if I'm unable to isolate the batteries will charging 2 odyssey g34s at a time out too much strain on the alternator (jku 160a) This thought pushes me back to a blue sea ACR install being a must.

Your alternator will be fine. My Dodge probably had the same 160amp alternator (until I upgraded to a 270 amp), and I ran that 160amp alt for ten years before I upgraded. The old 160 is still just fine and is in a box as backup if needed. It originally charged a single Grp 65 flooded lead acid battery, then it charged a Sears PM1, then it charged a PM1 plus a Grp 34 Optima Red, then it charged an Odyssey 2150 plus an Odyssey 1500 Grp 34, then a 2150 plus two Optima Blue Grp 34s, all charging at the same time. The alternator was never the problem, and the only reason I upgraded was to dump more amps into the triple battery setup on short trips or at idle after I decided to get a fridge.

I would avoid the Blue Sea ACR because I don't like anything that is automatic. But if you must have an ACR, that is probably the best one to get. I would not use an Optima Red/Yellow combo for a dual battery system (been there, done that), I'd just go with a pair of Yellows or a pair of Blue DP if I decided to use Optima. The Blue DPs give you the performance of the Yellows plus the extra studs on top for accessories. Don't worry about fancy mounts for the Optima, because you can also get fancy mounts for the Odyssey. Don't assume that the Optima will outlive the Odyssey in Grp 34. I just removed an Odyssey 1500 Grp 34 from my Dodge after seven years and it tests good-as-new. Changed it because I went from a dual to a triple battery system and I got a good deal on a pair of Optima Blue DP Grp 34s. My Odyssey Grp 34s have never needed any fancy charging or maintenance, it seems to be only the 2150/PM1 that has those issues. There has been an Odyssey 1500 in my wife's SUV for a few years and I have never touched it since I tightened the hold down. In Grp 34 you will pay more for Odyssey but get more capacity, but if you shop around the Optimas can look like a bargain by comparison.

 

[BigSwede]

I would avoid the Blue Sea ACR because I don't like anything that is automatic. But if you must have an ACR, that is probably the best one to get.

I have had good luck with Blue Sea in general, their stuff is designed for maritime use, which is a harsher environment than ours, with the possible exception of vibration.

I would not use an Optima Red/Yellow combo for a dual battery system (been there, done that), I'd just go with a pair of Yellows or a pair of Blue DP if I decided to use Optima. The Blue DPs give you the performance of the Yellows plus the extra studs on top for accessories.

Yeah actually I would use the blue top for the extra terminals. Not sure I see a burning reason to use a DP for starting, but I have used a yellow top as a starting battery for years with no problems at all. And now that I think of it the DP might be a better choice because my trail truck is not my DD and does tend to sit for a week or two between drives when I'm not on trips. If the battery charge sags a bit the DP probably can handle it better.

Don't worry about fancy mounts for the Optima, because you can also get fancy mounts for the Odyssey.

That's cool, it has nothing to do with fancy, just ease of install. For example on a Trooper, you can squeeze two Optima 34s sideways on the battery tray using one of those mounts. Maybe it would work with Odysseys too.

Don't assume that the Optima will outlive the Odyssey in Grp 34.

I didn't mean to imply that if you thought I did. I imagine they both last pretty long. My first Optima lasted 7 years and I abused it horribly...we'll see how the Sears Platinum 31 lasts.

In Grp 34 you will pay more for Odyssey but get more capacity, but if you shop around the Optimas can look like a bargain by comparison.

I noticed that...that $75-100 difference is pretty steep.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

.we'll see how the Sears Platinum 31 lasts.

My PM1 went three years, almost to the day. Did not fail because of a charging/maintenance problem, but seemed to develop a bad cell. Sears would not warrant it, but Odyssey did. Really good customer service and support from Odyssey, Sears not so much.

I am thinking we should start an overs/unders pool for all the 2150/PM1 batteries owned here. I'd be happy to hold the money.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Quote Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
I would avoid the Blue Sea ACR because I don't like anything that is automatic. But if you must have an ACR, that is probably the best one to get.

I have had good luck with Blue Sea in general, their stuff is designed for maritime use, which is a harsher environment than ours, with the possible exception of vibration.

Blue Sea stuff is the best. I just don't want automatic stuff on my truck. My solenoid is switched from a toggle on the dash, and my house batteries are controlled by a Blue Sea rotary switch.

 

[4x4junkie]

2 questions: 1) Is CostCo still selling deep cycles? I thought they'd discontinued that. 2) Got a spec on that battery?

Costco stores around the LA area sell both a group 24 and a 27 deep-cycle, as does the one up in Medford Or. (I thought I might've seen a 31 at one location also, but i can't swear to it). Anywhere else though I couldn't tell you... As pointed out, selection does vary considerably between regions (even stores in the same general area can vary too).


Specs on the grp-27 Kirkland/Interstate deep cycle are: 95Ah, 160RC, and 600CCA (not sure what the 24 is, didn't pay any attention to it). It uses lead-calcium plate design. It seems exactly the same as the Voyager I bought in 2009, minus the little hydrometer eye (which is worthless on the JC units anyway). After wrapping the vent plugs with a layer of teflon thread-seal tape and reseating them, they never leaked a drop, so no corrosion issues to speak of either (I know this can be a problem with some flooded designs).

Last I checked, all the Interstate Deep Cycles were still a wet-cell design, so comparing to a big AGM is a bit apples/oranges since they can't be installed in same places or orientations - I don't really have an option to mount my house battery anywhere except inside the van cabin.

For our uses it's indeed apples to apples (or oranges to oranges, if you prefer) They both are lead-acid type and store & deliver energy via the same process. As I said, if you have a specific need to mount your battery sideways, then that's one thing, but to the vast majority of people it's of little consequence. If you're worried about fumes from a battery inside the cab, don't be. A good lead-calcium flooded unit produces virtually no gas during use (no it's not quite zero, but damn close). It's older lead-antimony designs that released lots of gas, and consequently they needed frequent topping off with water.

 

[comptiger5000]

For our uses it's indeed apples to apples (or oranges to oranges, if you prefer) They both are lead-acid type and store & deliver energy via the same process. As I said, if you have a specific need to mount your battery sideways, then that's one thing, but to the vast majority of people it's of little consequence. If you're worried about fumes from a battery inside the cab, don't be. A good lead-calcium flooded unit produces virtually no gas during use (no it's not quite zero, but damn close). It's older lead-antimony designs that released lots of gas, and consequently they needed frequent topping off with water.

Not quite. Even the lower gassing flooded cells still won't accept as fast a charge rate as an AGM. In a vehicle with a big alternator, you'll be able to get the AGMs back to 80% or so much, much faster than a flooded battery.

 

[4x4junkie]

I never said they would accept a charge as fast. Sure, if you have a big giant alternator, you can take better advantage of it with an AGM battery. But as I mentioned before, most of us who are serious about this stuff have two or more batteries in our rig... Such advantages of AGM become much less pronounced when the current is shared across multiple batteries.

 

[gravedgr]

We hit my battery with a couple of different size charges, including an 80 amp charge. The fact that it still won't hold a charge and drops down to about 12.0 amps eventually - is there anything else I should try, or start the warranty process with Sears?

 

[Ducky's Dad]

start the warranty process with Sears?

Yes.

 

[Hilldweller]

Doug ----
Renogy is having a sale event:
http://www.renogy-store.com/?mc_cid=389e613bdf&mc_eid=0e564a2c67

The thing that all auto-oriented batteries have in common is they like to be fully charged as often and as soon as possible. Solar is a great friend while overcamping.

 

[Airmapper]

The Ctek 25000 (25amp) is on the Odyssey approved list for the 2150/PM1, and it should work with any battery you are likely to own. It's $226 now at Amazon, but I think I have seen them recently for about $185.
http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-674-A...TF8&qid=1447776625&sr=8-1&keywords=ctek+25000
I don't really like my Ultimizer 40amp/3-Bank because it is just too big and heavy and bulky, and has sharp edges and a bunch of superfluous (for me) cables and clamps hanging off it. I will probably replace it, and am waiting to see the new Odyssey chargers. The Ctek 25000 is my fallback choice.

Well I have one of these now, found it for a hair over $200. I talked with Odyssey, they recommended me a $300 marine dual bank charger that I would ideally need to permanently install in the vehicle. Not very appealing. I called that manufacturer and asked it if would do anything to desulfate, they said it was not programmed in any way for that purpose. I followed up with Odyssey and asked them about the Ctek 25000 unit and did not get a response....however they did say prior to that, a less than 50amp charger would likely be suitable for maintenance as long as it was over 10amps and could get the voltage up in line with what you said.

I checked this morning, I drove to work, then it had about 3 hours sitting, and it was at 12.69v So I think the battery is in decent shape despite not fooling with it for several months.

I'm going to try get my rig in the Garage and put it on the new Ctek 2500 overnight, but I'll be running around for the holiday and may not be able to do much experimentation until the weekend.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

I'm going to try get my rig in the Garage and put it on the new Ctek 2500 overnight, but I'll be running around for the holiday and may not be able to do much experimentation until the weekend.

I don't have that charger, but I think the controls are similar to my Ctek 7002. You might try giving the battery a full charge on the AGM setting (probably "snowflake") and then letting it rest overnight before you try to recondition it. If/when you run the recondition cycle, disconnect the battery from ground so that you don't risk frying your electronics when the charger goes to 15.6 volts. Your current 12.69OCV is probably about 70-80% of a full charge.

 

[Airmapper]

I don't have that charger, but I think the controls are similar to my Ctek 7002. You might try giving the battery a full charge on the AGM setting (probably "snowflake") and then letting it rest overnight before you try to recondition it. If/when you run the recondition cycle, disconnect the battery from ground so that you don't risk frying your electronics when the charger goes to 15.6 volts. Your current 12.69OCV is probably about 70-80% of a full charge.

Thanks. I'll try to report back on how it does. It doesn't have snowflake mode, just Normal, Supply (Fixed parameters), and Recondition. (LINK to manual)

I put it on Normal for now, it's been in absorbing mode for a few hours, so I think that is a good thing, it must actually be charging or it would have changed modes by now. Charging voltage has been constant at 14.30.

I might have to drive tomorrow, I'll just leave it on overnight and see what it is before I unhook it.

One thing that bugs me is the fault light came on for the temp sensor. In the manual it says it just charges at a normal voltage if it faults, so it's fine, but my sensor may be bad. It is supposed to vary the voltage in relation to ambient temps.

I'll see what happens after a few "Normal" charges, and if the overnight resting voltage doesn't get to a level I'm comfortable with, I'll give recondition a try.

I'll probably be trying to get a voltage monitor of some kind soon to install in the dash so I keep an eye on it. I figure I need to charge every other weekend or so from now on if I want this battery to live a reasonable time.

 

[gravedgr]

Well, Sears will warranty the battery - but only for what they have in stock, and they don't carry the PC2150 any more. They have a Diehard Gold 31M with lower CCA, lower RC and higher 20 hr rate. Debating getting it only because otherwise I'm without a battery in my truck for who knows how long while trying to work something with Odyssey.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Well, Sears will warranty the battery - but only for what they have in stock, and they don't carry the PC2150 any more. They have a Diehard Gold 31M with lower CCA, lower RC and higher 20 hr rate.

That DieHard Gold is not nearly the same battery as the PM1. You have time left on your warranty, so have Sears check other stores or their online distribution system to get a direct replacement. Or look around yourself and find a Sears store you can drive to, to do the swap. Or ask for a cash refund of your full purchase price and go buy a Northstar. Or wait until Sears gets the new Northstar replacement for the PM1; Northstar can probably tell you when that will happen in your market. As I recall, the PM1 has a full replacement warranty that runs for 36 months, so figure out how long you can wait to get a suitable replacement, assuming that your current battery will still run the truck. A PM1 at 75% is still better than most batteries at 100%. When my PM1 developed a bad cell right at the three-year mark (three years and about three days), Sears would not warranty it, but Odyssey did. Odyssey probably won't do that now because, as I understand it, they are no longer manufacturing batteries for Sears. Another alternative with Sears is to accept a Platinum Grp 65, or maybe just a fresh Grp 34 Platinum to use a house battery.