M1078 vx. Mitsubishi FUSO 4x4

[whatcharterboat]

Hi KevinsMap
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The last computer we had to replace in a FUSO FGB71 was $5600 Aud. Ours was damaged in a workshop BTW. Carrying a spare ??????
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Hi Jnich77
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Yeah..... Actually I agree and should have included the tranny in my original list of Pros.
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Allison 3500...., what could be better? If you've driven them in soft sand, you'll especially know what I mean. They leave a typical Euro autotranny for dead off-road. Love the idiot-proof electronic shifter on the M1078 too. The only thing I would question about the setup in the M1078 is the transmission oil cooler. On the truck I'm working on now, we are pulling the original water / oil cooler out and running two big air / oil coolers with thermo fans( 4 in total) . That should take a huge burden off the engine cooling circuit.
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Re: the 3116 ....My comments were only based on what CAT mechanics have told me, not past experience...... And the issues they mentioned were to do with longevity of main components (like the block) not random ancillary parts failing. I don't imagine any of the ex-army vehicles would have much mileage on them nor would they be concerned with longevity. Ours has less than 10k miles on the clock as an example...... But then if you say garbage trucks run 3116's, then I guess they must get a hammering so that must count for something.....sort of blows my comments out of the water.

I certainly wouldn't be swapping out a perfectly functioning motor no matter what I've heard..... The 3116 is not exactly a powerhouse either but that tranny more than makes up for any shortfalls there.

Regards
John

 

[KevinsMap]

Hi KevinsMap
The last computer we had to replace in a FUSO FGB71 was $5600 Aud. Ours was damaged in a workshop BTW. Carrying a spare ??????

Regards
John

Well, you will note that I used the word "pricey" with emphasis I thank you for confirming my suspicion. And, you are absolutely correct; there are very few parts of that kind of expense I would budget to have "on hand". Would this be the exception? That was the crux of my question - if you did have a spare, would it do you any good in the field? I am still learning.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Well, you will note that I used the word "pricey" with emphasis I thank you for confirming my suspicion. And, you are absolutely correct; there are very few parts of that kind of expense I would budget to have "on hand". Would this be the exception? That was the crux of my question - if you did have a spare, would it do you any good in the field? I am still learning.

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The actual physical process of swapping the computer in field is no problem....even for someone with the most basic of skills. The programming is another story. This is something I would always see being done with the truck back at the dealership. Is it possible for a dealer to "pre-program" a replacement computer without the vehicle ??? eg: a scenario where you called from a remote location and ordered a replacement to be sent out...... I'm honestly not sure. Things like programming all the correct running gear options (eg: our models don't have DEF or auto tranny), signals from the key FOB, engine performance parameters, etc need to considered. Maybe a basic program could be entered .....enough to get the vehicle mobile anyway....again I'm not 100% sure and probably shouldn't speculate......but to answer your question above >> Finances and practicality aside, you could carry a pre-programmed computer with you as a spare and change it out if required.
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The only computer failures I've heard of on these trucks happened in dodgey workshops anyway .... not out in the field. Bush mechanics drilling through the chassis rails and accidentally into the wiring harness, welding on the vehicle without unplugging the computer and the main engine plugs, back EMF's from incorrect installation of relays, etc.
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Nice talking to you, regards John

 

[KevinsMap]

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The actual physical process of swapping the computer in field is no problem....even for someone with the most basic of skills. The programming is another story. This is something I would always see being done with the truck back at the dealership. Is it possible for a dealer to "pre-program" a replacement computer without the vehicle ??? eg: a scenario where you called from a remote location and ordered a replacement...... I'm honestly not sure. Things like programming all the correct running gear options (eg: our models don't have DEF or auto tranny), signals from the key FOB, engine performance parameters, etc need to considered. Maybe a basic program could be entered .....enough to get the vehicle mobile anyway....again I'm not 100% sure and probably shouldn't speculate......but to answer your question above >> Finances and practicality aside, you could carry a pre-programmed computer with you as a spare and change it out if required.
.
The only computer failures I've heard of on these trucks happened in dodgey workshops anyway .... not out in the field. Bush mechanics drilling through the chassis rails and accidentally into the wiring harness, welding on the vehicle without unplugging the computer and the main engine plugs, back EMF's from incorrect installation of relays, etc.
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Nice talking to you, regards John

My sincere thanks. This was a question, that when it came up on this thread, I found I had never even considered. So your personal experience is very valuable.

Best Regards, Kevin

 

[Ozrockrat]

Having had a M-1078 sitting on my driveway for a year I can throw a couple of ideas into this discussion. I have also driven the Fuso (actually Canter in Oz) all over mine sites.

I would suggest just go with the M-1078. For expedition use it will be totally under stressed whereas the Fuso will be at the limit of its power, cooling, capacity and braking.

Spares except for cab/glass are available easily. As mentioned before they are all off the shelf items.

Just about any mine site in the world will have a mechanic that knows Cat engines and Allison transmissions.

The ride in the cab on the M-1078 for a cab over is fantastic. The air ride works very well. Also it is comfortable for 3 people. Even know you think you will only ever have 2 people just think of the times you may need a guide (China).

The 7 speed auto gives the equal of at least a 10 speed manual. And with the correct oil they have a service interval of 300,000.

But they are thirsty in the current configuration. They do need to be re-geared to lower the revs on the top end. Diff centers are available at reasonable cost to do this but everything on these vehicles is big and heavy. Not really a job for in the driveway unless you have a few strong buddies.

Someone suggested going with the 6x6. This would be even better especially if you can get one of the A1 series. These have the 3126 Cat engine and the 3126 is an electronic engine which can be programmed for more power and better economy.

One other thing to look at in the LMTV - FMTV is don't just look at the floor level of the tray. It is sitting on a frame that is about 10 - 12" high. This can be removed when fitting a camper.

The parabolic springs and CTIS also make the M-1078 an reasonably capable off road vehicle. Ample capability for a camper.

 

[toylandcruiser]

All the lmtvs I've driven or seen had a c7 in them

 

[Ozrockrat]

All the lmtvs I've driven or seen had a c7 in them

I will admit I have only limited experience driving these (only a handful) and they were all surplus A0 variants.

Later ones seem to have the C7 but everyone I have checked out (only ones for sale not in service) have had the 3116 (vast majority) or the 3126 (only a couple). The C7's seem to have been introduced in around 2002 to the M-108X series and around 2005 to the M-1078. Generally the M-1078A1 will have the 3126 and the M-1078A0 will have the 3116. Again this is observation only against units I have seen for sale so definitely not a definitive information source.

But if you get the choice this would be my priority:
1- C7
2- 3126
3- 3116

Also since these are all SAE2 bellhousings you can reasonably easily fit a number of engines. My choice would be an 8.3 Cummins.

 

[whatcharterboat]

...........Spares except for cab/glass are available easily.......
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...........They do need to be re-geared to lower the revs on the top end. Diff centers are available at reasonable cost to do this but everything on these vehicles is big and heavy. Not really a job for in the driveway unless you have a few strong buddies..........

I guess that's one thing here in Oz....... Steyr cabs and glass are common. Found on many MAN trucks here. As an example, most Australia Post trucks through the '90's and '00's had the same cab as the M1078. My friend was able to pick an entire cab from a wrecker very cheap. Only a few $k mainly to help with the RHD conversion but it has a fully trimmed interior, plush air seats, nice tilt steering column/wheel with cruise-control stalk, overhead console, all the correct wiper components for RHD, Etc etc. it will make for an extremely "civilian-ized" cabin.
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Also picked up a pair of high speed diff centres a few weeks ago...... Heavy is an understatement !!!!! By comparison, you'd be lucky if a FUSO front centre was much more than 30kg.

 

[UpperCrust]

Im not sure switching the computer would fix a "Limp Mode" problem. There could be a malfunction with one of the many sensors.

 

[Coachgeo]

my VERY LIMITED, recent experience and later research seems to show the LMTV generation ones (often referred to as A0's cause newer were called A1's) have an inherent weakness. The rear driveline Transmission/Tcase setup is finicky/weak. Moderately steep driveline angle at rear is part of issue. Get something off balance (joint going bad, nick in drive shaft or Yoke, not adhering STRICKLY to peculiar stringent specs orr?? ) and it throws vibrations that the transmission/Trasfer Case housing can't handle? Disaster strikes; most often at highway trip speeds (55ish mph), drive shaft drops and destroys *** end of T-Case. Often cracks transmission bellhousing and other issues. Yet... is it egg before chicken... or chicken before egg? AKA- it could be the Tcase housing breaks apart allowing driveshaft to come free. Who knows which. IT IS A KNOW PROBLEM. If it happens to a civilianized LMTV your talking anywhere from $5000- $8000usd repair bill. Several solutions were studied.

Researach shows One Action was taken long back and all FMTV family was upgraded (bigger rear drive shaft tube diameter and few other modifications) A "recall" you might call this. Still; IFFFF am interpreting research/history of fixes correctly, the problem still existed just not as often. In 2008 or so the problem was in round about ways solved? In 2008 starting with Model got the A1p2 label (A1 Phase 2??) They started using the 6x6's Intermediate axle (first axle of the pair from the 6x6 setup) as the rear axle on all 4x4's in the FMTV line up. This moves axle yoke of the drive shaft up nearly to same height as top rear pumpkin. Makes since to do this cause it lessons rear drive line angle thus any imbalances are felt less by the Tranny/Tcase. Also less chance of hitting the drive shaft on things cause this moved the yoke up at the axle a good bit. Adds a heavy ******** gear box to the axle (that is how the axle yoke ends up in its new location). Search pics of an FMTV 6x6 axles to get view of this. Have not heard if this remains the same now or not.


Here is pic of both 6x6 axles

Image in foreground is Intermediate axle mentioned here. Granted this additional unsprung weight will possibly help off road (lowers CofG)... on road?? it could be little less responsive handling wise??

So with all this, IMHO If your actually going to be beyond roads that are unpaved that:

. are rock/boulder strewn or anything else that could twist the rig a lot.
. if trail surface offer up scenarios where you might drag a driveshaft on something.
. If your trips land you in spots where scheduled maintenance shop will be not capable of doing driveline specification checks/repair to ensure things are set strictly according to technical manual's listed tolerances.......

Then (IMHO) if you're going with an LMTV and not an MTV 6x6 then:

Do as the 2008 and beyond 4x4 models in the FMTV lineup and swap to the Intermediate axle or..... do a modern type High Angle Drive Shaft conversion with Rzeppa joints. Rzeppa driveshaft method does not move shaft up further out of harms way though.

Let's just say I learned the hard way of this issue and my LMTV camper dreams are $everaly kicked back a few year$ due to this i$$ue. A vendor in FMTV NOS parts etc. has mentioned several others have had same issue occur.

BUTTT...... DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

 

[B85]

Yep, its a bolt in and a new drive shaft. I here the newer M1078 have to now.

 

[ScottReb]

I also think the MPG is over rated. Most MDT weighing in over 10T are not going to get more than 9-10 mpg, and most RV are less than that. So regearing and getting 7-8+ isnt any different. Just my opinion of course. You cant compare these trucks to a FG/NPR that weigh less the 6T.

 

[maytag]

Just throwing out a thought...

What about putting a duramax/allison/np205 into the M1078 for better mileage and parts availability? It would make plenty of power and selling the current drivetrain would probably pay for the new one.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Just throwing out a thought...

What about putting a duramax/allison/np205 into the M1078 for better mileage and parts availability? It would make plenty of power and selling the current drivetrain would probably pay for the new one.

Holy crap that would take a lot of work. Un needed work.

 

[maytag]

It wouldn't be that bad with a donor truck. And it would help alleviate the biggest complaint about the trucks.