how do you get the tongue height that you want

[colorado matt]

ok I am needing some help ... in the planning stages of my build .... I know the hitch height of the tow vehicle ... I know the size tires I want (matching tow vehicle) ... I plan to build trailer from scratch and I want the trailer to sit level when hitched up .... here is my uneducated thought process.... #1 axle kit with springs attached to trailer and it all works out perfect .. my favorite so far... #2 add metal to spring perches to get desired height ... in my mind seems simple but don't know if there is a better way .... #3 build it and use drop hitch ... don't like this because departure angle suffers .... #4 order the right springs and everything will work out for number 1 .... I have no idea how I would go about figuring the right springs ..... am I over thinking this ??? am I incorrect about a drop hitch ruining my departure angle ?? how is "your desired" height built into the trailer??? scouts receiver tube is just over 2 feet in height .... 33 inch tires .... the "Burley Industries prototype expedition trailer" thread is quite close to my vision if you are wondering what type of trailer I plan on .... thanks for any advise .... Matt

 

[colorado matt]

something like this .... while that may be good for a trailer that is being pulled by multiple vehicles and a tongue that needs to be adjustable .... it seems to me that all I am doing is moving the drop hitch away from the vehicle on to the trailer .... thanks for the idea .... not sure if that is the route I want to take ..... it also occurred to me that a simple axle flip could get me where I want ... but are they really that simple??.. I figure there is way when in the design phase and building that you would or should know pretty close to how high the tongue will be and make ???? adjustments to hit a specified height without building the trailer and then going dang missed it by 6 inches ..now I need to do XXXX .... got a redneck trailer store near me ... going to go pick their brains next weekend and maybe get the axle, spring, hangers and such ......... thank you for your response ... please realize I am an idiot and in new and unchartered waters with all of this .......... Matt

 

[rnArmy]

I would say build the trailer the way you want it, and then worry about the tongue height later. Some things you can do:

1. Move the axle above or below the springs to adjust the height (is the axle straight or crowned? If crowned you can't just flip it.).

2. If you still need it higher, put a lift block between the spring and axle.

3. Adjust the height of the end of the tongue (having a 2" receiver up front makes things easier) like in the picture above. You could also flip the 2" receiver up front and put it under the tongue (but it sounds like your Scout's hitch is up pretty high).

4. Adjustable hitch.

What type of hitch are you planning on running? A traditional ball mount? Some sort of multi-axis hitch? Pintle and lunette ring set-up?

 

[Martyn]

If you are worried about departure angle the trailer coupler can be higher than the tow vehicle hitch and you can accommodate the difference with a draw bar.

If you calculate trailer height based on the axle and springs then the calculation will be altered by the weight of the chassis and the body plus what ever else you put on it or in it.

Springs can be bought with various rates, lengths, and arches. What ever you do don't select trailer springs. Presuming you are going with leaf springs select something at least 36" eye to eye, a military wrap is nice. You can get springs with a range of arch and the same spring rating, that way you can get the amount of travel you require.

If you are into not over thinking this whole thing, get some Suzuki Samurai springs, add some shackles and call it good.

 

[colorado matt]

lift blocks .... never thought of that .... the scout has been lifted and rear bumper has receiver hitch built in and it is up nice and tight .... 8 inches higher than a buddy who has a separate hitch install under his bumper ..... I have been told it looks high and tight ... pretty sure that I will be figuring out how to raise the trailer to the scout .... one of the articulating hitches is what I want .... have only skimmed the few that pop when searching ... I know one seems to be favored over the other for binding or something .... I understand that calculations will change with weight of trailer and gear .... with my math hat on is there a way to figure that in ?? .... weights of materials are easy to find I bet with a huge amount of wasted time I could guess within 400 lbs what everything would end up weighing .... I need to research springs a lot more I guess ..... never occurred to me to use other springs other than the ones that would come with the axle .... quick search popped up several options of samuri springs from stock to 4 inch lift ... all within 36 inch eye to eye ... and a samuri has four wheels ...would I get front or rear springs..... and travel ? ... is there really a lot of travel .... figured most of the articulation of a trailer is in the hitch .... like I said more research is needed obviously ..... I also don't know enough about axles as the question straight or crowned was met with ... huh?? ... I am most likely overthinking it ... or not ... I am just not knowing what I should know to make an informed decision ... .. probably should build and tweek with blocks or shackles as things progress ..... but also hate going back because I rushed and did not think it thru ..... thanks for the answers ... it helps quite a lot .. Matt

 

[Sb_Moto]

33" tire / 2 = 16.5" center line. Probably another 1.25" for the axle tube thickness so that puts you at 17.75. From there is a matter of your spring mounts, springs, shackles, and blocks if you have them. My advice is to figure out springs and try and get the height of the spring. If you can't get that (seems like most don't offer good dims) then guess and adjust with hangers/ shackles/ blocks. Personally I would stay away from blocks if possible.

Also consider if you want your tongue on the same plane as the main frame or under it.

 

[rnArmy]

You want your trailer's springs to flex; otherwise every little bump in the road (or trail) bounces/jars the trailer all over the place. A lot of folks think the more weight carrying capacity of the springs the better (i.e.: 1500lb springs are better than 600lb springs). Not so. How would your Scout ride with overly-stiff springs? Same thing with a trailer. Some cheap trailers come with slipper springs. Simply put - they suck. They're short, overly stiff, and don't flex. You want a suspension like your Scout's rear suspension; a double-eyed spring, fixed mount up front and with a shackle in the back. I used 26" long double-eyed trailer springs rated at 575lbs each (but mine's a small trailer).

Yes; the trailer articulates at the hitch. That is not the same as suspension. Articulating... think of that as twisting (up and down, swing left to right, and one side up and the other side down). And you want your trailer's tongue long enough so the trailer can be turned 90-degrees to your Scout and not be hitting anything.

Trailer axles can come straight across, or have a very slight curve (or crown) to them (an upside down smile). The thinking is, is if it has a slight curve, when empty the tires will slightly tuck in at the bottom; when you load up your trailer it'll flatten out and the tires will now be straight up-and-down. Without a crowned axle, with the trailer loaded-up, the tires might splay out. It isn't very scientific, but that's the reasoning behind a crowned axle.

I wouldn't go with more than a 1" - 1.5" lift block for fine-tuning your trailer's height.

I like pintle hook and lunette ring set-ups. Good articulation, and easy to connect and disconnect to the tow vehicle. SOME people think they're noisy; I haven't thought so.

When you've got a couple hours of time to kill, read this: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/...ype-trailer-ultimate-build-up-thread-1180456/

 

[rnArmy]

Check out the locknroll hitches: https://locknroll.com/

They have options for compensating for differences in trailer and tow vehicle hitch point sites.

 

[colorado matt]

ok little more research done .... understand what military wrap is .... slipper springs are out ... ..... using this pic as a frame of reference ... it is the B measurement that is just plain hard to find when shopping ... and what I think I want to be as close as possible to getting the height where I want it .... also i read earlier post wrong (read can when it said cant)... straight axles can be flipped not the crowned ones ... took me a while before I figured that out ... with shackle length SUA or SOA I should be able to dial in what I want ..... thanks for the hitch link ... toss up between lock n roll and the max coupler ... apparently the binding issue at acute angles has been addressed buy lock n roll and ease of connection seems better .... but the max couple always seems to edge out in reviews and with pneumatic tire upgrade on the trailer leg helping move around in the dirt I am leaning to the MC ..... the tongue will be under the main frame as I want to run it front to back ..... and a question still on the board.... front or rear spring set if I choose samuri springs ??? thanks guys .... Matt

 

[jays0n]

One of the reasons that the B measurement is hard to find is that it changes based on loading of the spring and all springs will "settle" over time.

 

[rnArmy]

ok little more research done .... understand what military wrap is .... slipper springs are out ... ..... using this pic as a frame of reference ... it is the B measurement that is just plain hard to find when shopping ... and what I think I want to be as close as possible to getting the height where I want it .... also i read earlier post wrong (read can when it said cant)... straight axles can be flipped not the crowned ones ... took me a while before I figured that out ... with shackle length SUA or SOA I should be able to dial in what I want ..... thanks for the hitch link ... toss up between lock n roll and the max coupler ... apparently the binding issue at acute angles has been addressed buy lock n roll and ease of connection seems better .... but the max couple always seems to edge out in reviews and with pneumatic tire upgrade on the trailer leg helping move around in the dirt I am leaning to the MC ..... the tongue will be under the main frame as I want to run it front to back ..... and a question still on the board.... front or rear spring set if I choose samuri springs ??? thanks guys .... Matt

Check this link out for spring measurements: http://www.stengelbros.com/UtilitySprings.htm It give you their height.

I'm running their 26" long springs rated at 575lbs each. I don't know how long Samurai springs are, or what weight they're rated at each.

 

[NatersXJ6]

You can spring-over a crowned axle, you simply need to weld spring perches to the top. they are cheap and easily available. if you are contemplating a trailer build the odds are high that you or a buddy have the necessary tool and skill to weld a spring perch.

 

[rnArmy]

You can spring-over a crowned axle, you simply need to weld spring perches to the top. they are cheap and easily available. if you are contemplating a trailer build the odds are high that you or a buddy have the necessary tool and skill to weld a spring perch.

Yes, but if you decide you want to change your crowned axle from spring-over to spring-under (or vice-versa), you need to cut off the spring perches and re-weld them on the other side of the axle. With a straight axle, you can just flip the axle over. With the OP's stated (tall) height of his Scout's trailer hitch, he most likely will be having his axle spring-over.
I've got a crowned axle on order for my trailer, and it is going to be a spring-over set-up.

 

[teotwaki]

Yes, but if you decide you want to change your crowned axle from spring-over to spring-under (or vice-versa), you need to cut off the spring perches and re-weld them on the other side of the axle. With a straight axle, you can just flip the axle over. .....

.....reweld the shock mounts too if you have them.

 

[rnArmy]

.....reweld the shock mounts too if you have them.

Most trailer springs are 1.75" wide; same width as the old Jeep springs (CJ2A, 3A, 3B, early CJ5). They used spring U-bolt plates that had shock mounts built into them; makes it easy to put shocks on a little trailer (or at least have shock mounts on the axle).