GMT-800 Suburban lift options?

[justcuz]

Rayra,

I never measured mine stock. But if yours is now at 36" to the top of the wheelwell and you have 285/75 tires, then yes you will net 2" of lift. If you look closely at the spring photo, ( blow it up) you can see the progressively wound coils are closer at the bottom. This causes coil bind like a cargo coil and very little droop while weighted. Ride is not negatively effected. I am not a spacer guy, springs or wheels. My early experience building off road race cars ingrained the anti spacer mentality. Less parts, keep it simple.
Physically as I recall, the H2 springs were 1.5 inch taller than my stock LT springs. The LT's had over 100,000 miles on them, so my net gain was roughly 2" I believe.

 

[justcuz]

This is Williamson Valley Rd. Prescott to Seligman, 40 to 50 miles of dirt about one year or so after I installed the rear springs.
Keep in mind those are 285/75x16 tires 32.8" in diameter. They look kind of small in those wheel wells.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Rayra,

I never measured mine stock. But if yours is now at 36" to the top of the wheelwell and you have 285/75 tires, then yes you will net 2" of lift. If you look closely at the spring photo, ( blow it up) you can see the progressively wound coils are closer at the bottom. This causes coil bind like a cargo coil and very little droop while weighted. Ride is not negatively effected. I am not a spacer guy, springs or wheels. My early experience building off road race cars ingrained the anti spacer mentality. Less parts, keep it simple.
Physically as I recall, the H2 springs were 1.5 inch taller than my stock LT springs. The LT's had over 100,000 miles on them, so my net gain was roughly 2" I believe.

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And am I right in thinking that the H2 coils are a straight bolt-on swap? The coil platforms are the same size, etc?
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Also I guess I'm not understanding how you were able to keep your stock shocks. If you have a longer spring then don't you need longer shocks, too?

 

[justcuz]

Your taking up droop travel in the axle when you lift. I gained compression and lost a bit of droop, but still retained stock shocks. I removed the rear sway bar for more articulation and have not blown the seals on the shocks.
Straight bolt in. Disconnect the bottom shock bolts and sway bar links, droop the axle, remove old coils, install new ones and bolt shocks and links back up. Pretty easy.

 

[justcuz]

Looking at the vehicle from the side, the top of the tire is even with the top of the frame rail with 285/75x16 tires.
Bottom picture is before lift.
Going to install either 3/4 ton green torsion bars or Ford keys next week up front, now that I have inherited this Suburban from my wife.
She gets the new one!
All said and done, with some creative shopping and junkyard parts you should be able to do this lift for less than $300.00.

 

[rayra]

just measured, I'm sitting at 37.5" to the trim over the center of the rear hub and I'm on 265/70-17, which are measuring at ~31". About 20gals in the tank, 75-lb of gear and 200-lb of mortar sitting in the rearmost. 1500 Z71. LATE EDIT, front wheel well trim height is 36.5"

My understanding is that the H2s were GMT800 2500 series frames / suspensions. So the H2 would presumably have a higher load capacity and lead to a higher sitting height in my 1500. If the H2 springs are considered height equivalent to the Z71, I'd just as soon get fresh Z71 replacements, for the money. Most of my off-road travel will be low-speed cruising, don't intend to beat on it / load it up much.

The online vendors seem a mess. There's very little distinguishing between 2WD and 4WD springs, and nothign I can find related to Z71.

Moogparts says 81069 or 81071 with the exceptions seeming to indicate the 81069 is a 'heavy duty' replacement but neither are variable rate.
http://www.moogparts.com/find-my-pa...rban 1500&values=2002~Chevrolet~Suburban 1500

Autozone's configurator doesn't let me pick Z71, but the rest of my make / model spits out their house branded 'Duralast' spring but it seems to bear the moog part number, 'CS81069 and they want just over $100 EACH.
http://www.autozone.com/suspension-...wd/2002/8-cylinders-t-5-3l-sfi/150917_0_1029/

Amazon seems to have the 81069 spring PAIR for $61 AND free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00498ZR7A...=UTF8&colid=QWZ1BSZYG6VW&coliid=IRBIF310DFBF6

That and I'm willing to pull my own Ford keys and I can do this on the cheap. Then see how it sits.

I'm shopping shocks, but again there my needs are moderate. I had Rough Country RS9000s on my pickup for a very long time, along with their suspension lift kit and it's served me well for decades. And the shocks worked quite well in the desert conditions and driving I did. And which I'm intending for this Sub. So a kit like this seems reasonable to me -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B28T2KS...=UTF8&colid=QWZ1BSZYG6VW&coliid=ICLAP269QEI95

The kit price isn't bad overall, especially as it comes right to my door. Ive got other reasons to visit the auto graveyard, so picking the keys isn't a separate hassle as it were. And when I try to look up the N2.0 shocks at roughcountry's site I'm told "No shocks found." for my vehicle. And the amazon ad has no shock part numbers in it so I can't price them out separately.

I've already cranked the front up about an inch, to take out most of the rake / droop. It's still off the bumpstops so I still call the ride comfy. And I still have the quasi-'nerf' bar / steps on it, so I can't really be claiming to want a lot of clearance. And I've kept my tire size moderate too, so there's lots of room in the wheel wells.

So I can gain 1" of ground clearance by spending $700+ on some 285s. But my 265s are 14mos old and only have 6k mi on them.
I can gain about 1" of suspension height spending $100 on fresh factory springs and junkyard keys.
Or ~1.5"? for a 'suspension lift kit' that doesn't change my rear springs, for ~$300.

I'm going to head out to my local Chevy dealer right now to price a few things out, I'll report back later on their spring info, if I can pry any out of them.

 

[justcuz]

Good info, I went with the H2's because we do frequently haul a full load of adults and I sometimes tow.
We had 6 adults and our gear in the 2000 for a trip to Colorado a while back and it hardly sagged with all of us and our crap loaded in the vehicle.
I also run this thing around on a ranch in Banner, Wyoming occasionally, so the extra clearance always helps.

Rayra, you may be on to something here buddy! Reading the Amazon comments on these springs is very encouraging. Lots of positive reviews and Moog makes a very good product. Less than $100.00 for springs and junkyard Ford keys, you could do this and the front end alignment for $150.00! Good research dude!

 

[rayra]

welp, the dealer says it's $89+ each for the Z71 rear coil springs. And verified that they are a different part from the H2. But I got no part numbers or detailed specs on either. But cheaper than the rebranded Moog part at Autozone, which was a pleasant surprise. But no surety the Moog 'heavy duty' part is a direct replacement for the Z71 spring.

and their price for knock sensor was $97 and an astonishing $59 for the short wiring harness that links them to main harness. Which is just ridiculous.
Then there's the steering wheel switches for the missus' Tahoe, priced from $30-37ea, x4. I think all I have to do is solder some new LEDs in those, the switches themselves still function. Lots of vids / posts about various switch / light and driver info cluster faults on these vehicles. A little soldering iron finesse takes care of most of it.


And just for comparison's sake, the stock Z71 stance with 265/70-17s

Frankly I think stripping off the bar / step and the bottom most light gray trim panels would make it look 'better' in terms of clearance. Wouldn't really change anything though. Do lose a lot of ground clearance to those side bars though.

And I've got to do something about that rear hitch too, the trailer wiring coupler in particular. The whole towing package hangs down so far below the stock bumper that it just demolishes an already crappy departure angle. The trailer coupling mounts like a dash switch, thru a thin plate / hanger. I'm thinking about dismounting it, using the plate for a cutting pattern and cut a similar hole thru the face of the bumper left of the license plate, essentially above where the coupler is now, and mount it up there inside the bumper. And take a grinder to some of the sharp bottom edges of the receiver itself, so it drags easier. That or weld on a 1/4" plate 'ski' bottom to it, with upturned ends, so it grinds over things easier. But I just hate the idea of dragging *** altogether, but I'm not willing to change vehicles or spend a lot of money to avoid it. The only time I need to worry about dragging bottom is bugging out of L.A. after another mega quake. 'If it's near-horizontal it's road'. That's about the only time approach and departure angles matter much to me in this thing.

 

[justcuz]

Check out Rock Auto for the sensors and short loom. I think I paid about $52.00 for all three in a kit.
Your Suburban is nice, I like to canoe roller roof racks on those Z71's!

 

[rayra]

No kayaks / canoes yet, but I have strapped a gear bag, seabag and a big ice chest up there on one trip and the great height of the Z71 rack rails was real nice.
I'm working up a tray / deck design for it right now, spawned form some topics here a few months ago out painting roofs white and other means of shading the roof to block some of that terrible heat. I too regret buying the black burb. Long ago in my ATC / dirt bike days I had a black 4x mini truck and hated keeping it clean. But after a long search when I finally found this used Sub that fit my wear and mechanical criteria, I didn't care what color it was.

The deck was originally going to be plate aluminum, too much $$$$. Then coated / painted birch ply. machine-screwed into a 3-4 fabricated cross braces which would hang from the stock side rails (btw, truss-head screws are even broader and flatter than pan-head). The 'handhold' cutout were going to work like the tie-down points on a runway or carrier deck, with the cross bars exposed in them to hook a tie down too. But then as I looked at that shape and thought 'handhold', I decided I'd split the deck in two lengthwise and it could be quickly unscrewed and pressed into service as a backboard. I'm farting around wtih HAM radio, disaster prep, and signed up for my area's CERT training to find out what the disaster plans are for my area (if any, beyond 'tuck you head between your knees and kiss your ***** goodbye'. So a bunch of the mods I'm doing to this Sub are serving 4-5 purposes, on top of 6-person bus, telescope hauler etc.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I too regret buying the black burb. Long ago in my ATC / dirt bike days I had a black 4x mini truck and hated keeping it clean. But after a long search when I finally found this used Sub that fit my wear and mechanical criteria, I didn't care what color it was.

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When I was shopping for mine in November/December I found quite a few black ones in my price range. Most of them were even Z71's, which is exactly what I wanted. But I just couldn't bring myself to get a black truck, for exactly the reasons you state. I would have preferred that gorgeous dark green (my favorite color) or even the medium blue. Silver was actually my first choice just because it doesn't show scratches as badly as other colors (on my maroon 4runner you could see every chip, scratch or nick from 10 feet away!)
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I've always though of white as boring, but it's acceptable to me (I've actually owned 5 white vehicles, making it the most common color I've owned.) And I have to admit that when it's cleaned up, it does look nice, even if a little bit "bland."
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Looking at the GMT-900 Suburbans I see quite a few black ones out there, too. I think it's the "Limo" look - nowadays it seems like "important people" travel everywhere not in limousines, but in black suburbans, so the "black suburban" has become the defacto "Classy rich person" car. And I guess if you have a full time driver/mechanic to keep it clean and to start it up for you and run the AC until it cools off, there's no down side to black. But for those of us commoners who have to drive ourselves or wash and start our own vehicles, I would hate having a black one.
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And what's worse than a black exterior, seems to me, is the black leather interior, yet that seems very common on the GMT-900 trucks! No way would I ever get a vehicle with a black leather interior.
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IMO black is a great color for a motorcycle, but not a 4 wheeled vehicle that's going to be driven in the summer. Well, maybe a sports car with a rag top, that would be OK in black, too.

 

[Martinjmpr]

OK so Dizzydom gave me the measurements on his Yukon XL, it came out to 39" front and 40.5" back. I just measured mine and the measurements are 35.5" front and 36.5" back. This is on 265/75/17 all season radials with ~ 50% or more left on them.
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So, figuring that moving up to 285/70/17's would give me about an inch more diameter, that would equal a half inch or so of height, meaning that in order to get to 39" I'd need at least a 3" lift on the front and a 3.5" in the back in order to get the same effect.
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Now the back doesn't worry me too much - an H2 spring would probably give me all or most of the lift I need and if necessary I could add a spacer. But the question for the group, then, would be: Can I get 3" out of a key lift in the front? And if I did, would I run into problems with the CV joints or LCA's? I've heard of a key lift giving 2" up front but not 3". From that point I'm only aware of the 4" and 6" "bracket lifts" that are way more expensive than I would want to go.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Looking at the vehicle from the side, the top of the tire is even with the top of the frame rail with 285/75x16 tires.
Bottom picture is before lift.
Going to install either 3/4 ton green torsion bars or Ford keys next week up front, now that I have inherited this Suburban from my wife.
She gets the new one!
All said and done, with some creative shopping and junkyard parts you should be able to do this lift for less than $300.00.

.
I'd be very interested in seeing how this looks once you have the keys in.

 

[justcuz]

Martin,

It will be next week sometime.

I need to go to the wrecking yard and get the keys.

I also am going to see if my 54" green torsion bars will fit in the front of the Suburban. I've read that GMT 800 Suburban and Tahoe torsion bars are shorter, according to my measurements if they are its only by 1 or 2 inches and my 2000 bars set way into the LCA looking at it from the front.

The GMT 400 green bars are what I have in my 1993 Suburban and K2500 light duty pickup. They ride about an inch above the bottom bump stop, roughly in the middle of the suspension travel. I won't mind if my 2000 sets a little higher in back, but I want the front off the bump stops the same as the other trucks.

Based in the fact that Dizzy has a 3/4 ton with different suspension in back and slightly different A-arms up front if you can get a 1500 within an inch of those measurements you will be doing good.

 

[rayra]

Martin I think if you get near 3" on the front crank you'll be on the bump stops and your ride will go to crap as you lose - ? word escapes me right now, rebound?

but related, there's a great idea / tip related to that max extension on the factory shocks -

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ster-2004-Suburban-2500?p=2003715#post2003715

It's adding 4 fenderwashers on the top bolt of the front shock, before the bushing, which adds a 1/2" of extension to your shocks by shifting the top mounting position lower. THere's plenty of threadspace at the top, shim it all out.