What vehicles make the best Expedition platforms?

bijanjames

Adventurer
Very happy with my current rig, 11' Nissan Frontier Pro4x CC. Very reliable, capable, and has a decent aftermarket offering. I've had a Land Cruiser 80 series, and a few Tacoma's, which are both great in their own right. I decided on the Nissan this time because, for some reason, the Tacoma still has rear drum brakes and a C channel frame. The Frontier is on the same frame as its big brother and its fully boxed. Also, when I bought it, you could not get a TRD Tacoma with a 6 speed, but for 16' they have made that available, along with a long bed, which I wish I had.
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
How about the Nissan Titan. Some chassis armor and a locker made the last one I drove impressive, and it sat 4 adults Ok.

It's the only one I can think of that checks the boxes and is decent on the hwy.
 

Ryan87LX

Observer
I will second the 2nd Gen Ford Explorers. V8 and AWD, with the ability to swap in a manual transfer case. Lifts are available, as are bumpers, skids, etc.

I'm very happy with mine, though it's mostly stock. But there are lots of heavily modified examples out there. They also made millions of them, so parts tend to be cheap and easy to find.
 

DiscoDavis

Explorer
Land Rover LR3/D3. Be prepared to turn a wrench/fork over $ though.

Reliable V8 (the 4.4) , strong body/frame (heavy though), huge interior space, all seats behind the front row fold into the floor, can sleep inside, great aftermarket support, easy to mod/adjust. Can add a lift in under 30 seconds. Tows a lot. LR traction control wizardry goes a long way. They can be configured quite well to suit whatever.

Now have 27+k on one as a daily with a long commute (4hrs round trip), still gets me to work every time. Some examples can be found cheap, some badly neglected and can be a money pit. They've got character so its kind of a love-hate relationship for some people. It's a Land Rover thing.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I am posting here because I can find no other place for my question. I hope I am in the right section.

My dilemma... I'm a retired person with plenty of time to build a rig, and then to use it for exploration. I live in Arizona, so most of my off-roading, etc. will be out west. Might go to Alaska, and probably do Baja in addition to AZ, Utah, etc.

I am looking for opinions on what vehicles make the best platforms for reliable conversions. I will be traveling either solo or with a partner for the most part. I would need a rig capable of doing lots of miles on highways to get to my destinations, but also capable of going most anywhere once off road. The things that matter most to me in a rig are as follows:

Decent fuel economy/range
Smallish size for tight trails, but still maintaining adequate space for essential items for week long excursions.
Ability to hold roof top tent
Might decide at a later time to tow an off road trailer if I need more capacity, so my rig would need the power to tow probably 2500#
4WD is a no-brainer, and locking rear axle if available (I can always install an aftermarket locker)
I like vehicles with full frames to carry load and off road flex, but would consider a rig with semi frame if rugged enough
I don't want to go older than 1999
Reasonable purchase price and parts availability to customize are considerations I would look for

There are way more things to consider, but this will get me started. So far I have a few vehicles on my list that I think would fit the bill nicely, so please weigh in on my potential list, or give me suggestions on vehicles I have overlooked.

My short, so far, list..... Toyota 4Runner 3rd gen. Jeep XJ 1999-2001 or 2002, Toyota Tacoma, Toyota FJ, Jeep TJ, LG, or early Unlimited. I'm sure there are vehicles I've overlooked. I also think it would be awesome to convert a small van to 4 wheel drive, but not sure which are easy to convert and have adequate frame structure for extended off roading

I greatly appreciate any input. Believe me, I've been doing a lot of research, but find myself bouncing from one platform to the next with regularity. That's why I am asking opinions from those of you with experience with these vehicles. Thanks again for your time

Not too familiar with the 3rd gen 4runner, but I can definitely vouch for the 4th and 5th gen's (if they fit your budget). The frames and chassis hold up well to driving and rough terrain (anything short of extreme, Rubicon-style rock crawling). If you want something beyond that and are really set on a front solid axle, I'd look at Jeep, but you're starting to lose carrying capacity and cargo room if you go down that road. LC 100 would be another great option from Toyota, especially if you need more cargo room and towing capacity. The 4.7L V8 is generally considered reliable and very torquey, if not necessarily the most fuel efficient; you can also find that engine in some late 4th gen 4runners.

Maybe also consider looking for a FJ Cruiser. I realize the looks and styling are polarizing, but the frame chassis is well proven and tested (it's pretty much the same as what is used for the 5th gen 4runner), the 4.0L V6 is fairly reliable and has half decent torque, and Toyota sold quite a lot of them (making them not nearly as rare or unique as say a LC 100 or LC 80). You can definitely find some mildly used ones for a good bargain because of that.

The outgoing gen Xterra is another viable option, often overlooked. Some owners reported the front diff having issues in heavy offroading applications, its rear leaf springs need reinforcement, and some the early models had transmission fluid leak issues (known as SMOD), but it's still widely considered a capable and cost-efficient platform. A lot of owners have complained that the smallish fuel tank and poor mpg give it a very limited range though.

Older Tacomas are widely popular for the type of travel you are talking about, but are also highly sought after and demand relatively high resale prices. I'd also say that unless you absolutely need the rear cargo bed, a 4runner, FJ Cruiser or LC 100 would be the better option.

I can't speak for any of the older Body-on-Frame Domestic (Ford, Chevy, Dodge) SUV's, but I do know that quite a few on here run them without much if any problems (despite the reputation that domestic brands carry). And often because of their brand, they can be found for quite a bit cheaper than the comparable Toyota or Nissan. Just something to consider.
 

Box Rocket

Well-known member
The poor mans Toyota 4Runner, 2005+ Nissan Xterra's are not on your list. (Personally I'd get a 2009 up if you can, the bugs were worked out by then.)

They should not draw the premiums Toyota's and Jeeps do, but they are every bit as reliable as a Toyota.
Actual data says otherwise. Not knocking it, I really like the XTerra and for a smaller SUV they make a good platform for adventure travel. Tacomas, 4Runners and Land Cruisers have consistently had better, factually supported, reliability.
Since the OP had the 3rd Gen 4Runner on his list, these trucks have the 5VZE 3.4L V6. These motors have been out long enough now that there are MANY high mileage ones to gather data from and this motor has shown to be one of the most reliable motors Toyota has ever had. Even better than the famous 22R/22RE 4cyl from the 80's that has been sought after for it's excellent reliability.
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Depending on where you want to have an SUV or a pickup, the 3rd Gen 4Runner and 2nd Gen Tacomas use this same reliable drivetrain. I can attest firsthand how well this platform works. My 2003 Tacoma was completely trouble free (other than expendables like brake pads etc) and I used it regularly and heavily for this type of travel. I sold it with more than 200K miles on it. The drivetrain was still in like new condition when I sold it. Compression numbers were in new factory specs, not a single leak, never consumed oil or coolant. Without question this has been the most reliable vehicle I've owned. The Tacoma was also selected by Scott Brady/Overland Journal as the ideal overland platform (vehicles available in the US).
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I prefer the versatility of the Tacoma over the 4Runner but that could be argued for the sake of potentially better security from the 4Runner without a truck bed for gear to be stored. One of the things I preferred about the Tacoma was the ability to mount a roof top tent level or below the roofline for better aerodynamics. For these long journeys ever bit of fuel economy helps and a roof mounted RTT has diminish fuel economy.

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There is massive factory and aftermarket support for these trucks and they are available all over N.America so parts and support should be readily available.
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The overall size of these vehicles is ideal also since they are small enough to maneuver tight trails easily, but still large enough with ample power to pull a trailer. Payload is not great with the factory suspension, but there are some excellent aftermarket suspension options that solve payload concerns.
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They have a rear factory electric locking diff.
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The 4Runner has room to sleep inside the vehicle. The Tacoma (6' bed) with a canopy can allow sleeping inside as well, if you want to skip the RTT, although you'll possibly need to rearrange gear to be able to sleep.
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If I were making a similar vehicle selection my list would look something like this:
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota 100 Series Land Cruiser
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota 80 series Land Cruiser
Nissan Xterra
Nissan Frontier
Toyota Tundra
Jeep JKU
Jeep XJ
Mitsubishi Montero
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover LR3
Dodge Ram
Hummer H3
Ford F150
 

Kevin108

Explorer
Reliability is the primary factor. Next is having either the factory options or aftermarket support to be able to build it how you need to. After that, the hard part seems to be finding the time to put it all to use...
 

4x4junkie

Explorer
I find it interesting when people brag how wonderful their Toyota has been (especially one they don't own anymore) when it is put as if nothing else can compare to it, because I could brag just the same about how great my 1994 Ford Ranger has been too (and I still own it... Why would I sell what continues to be a good reliable truck? (Ok, maybe if needs change I s'pose is a reason to sell) But as they say, age (mileage) is just a number :) ).

It has the Cologne OHV 4.0L V6 and M5OD 5-speed trans. Both this engine and the trans are easily 300K+ mile units when maintained. The truck is lifted and has 33" tires on it, yet still can hit low-20s MPG hwy. The only trouble it has given me I brought onto myself through abuse during my younger years (launching 4 feet airborne and shock loading the drivetrain I don't think is conducive to the longevity of any vehicle lol :D Nor is an oiled gauze-type air cleaner to longevity of engine sensors). I have had to deal with a gas tank filler neck hose that split apart, and an A/C hose that developed a leak, but beyond that (even in spite of the earlier abuse I subjected it to) it has needed little beyond normal consumable items... fluid & filter changes, brake pads, etc., oh and a belt idler pulley bearing. I just treated it to a brand new set of Toyo M/T tires which I have yet to take pictures of.

Aftermarket for these trucks is also very strong. Suspension kits, axle gears & differential lockers abound. Aftermarket may be a little bit weaker for body bolt-ons like bumpers & armor, but it is there if you look for it. Payload is much greater than any similar Toyota (1650lbs with the #2 option)... and there is nothing you can do to the suspension and/or axle that legally increases GVWR/GAWR.



I think what happens when people participate in reliability surveys, many often conveniently "forget" about certain problems they may have had with their Toyota (or simply write them off as anomalies) due to a double-standard that exists. It's the only thing I can come up with because I've seen no evidence of this supposed superior reliability among the many Toyota vehicles owned by friends & family (I can break it down if anyone is interested, though the post would probably get pretty long). Though something else I have noticed too is neglect of regular vehicle maintenance seems to be more common among owners of domestic makes than Toyota owners (especially so when it comes to used vehicle purchases). Why this is I haven't a clue, but indeed it would affect the reliability outcome of any vehicle (I had a friend that bought a used Ford Focus (the limited "Kona" edition that came with the bicycle, though it was missing the bike when he bought it)... never once did he change a damn fluid in that car. Drove it into the ground and then junked it. It was a very nice car that ran well when he bought it).
 

PIC4GOD

Adventurer
4x4junkie you hit upon a very important observation, maintenance. First up reliability is determined by more than feel good interviews of vehicle owners. Recalls, dealer repairs, and many other factors are figured into the reliability statistics. Also there is a perception that American vehicles are crap because of the movement toward cheaper, better emission, and better mpg vehicles during the 70's and 80's. This is not the case as much today but for some who were burned in the past like me, have moved on to brand reliability elsewhere. I believe that the maintenance factor with American vehicles is not performed for the same reason why people buy American, price point. Most people purchase beyond what they can afford so maintenance suffers. But most import buyers tend to understand that maintenance is as important as the purchase. I'd would like to see a study that looks at those kind of details before a final conclusion. Personally for me Honda and Toyota have never let me down over the last 25 years or so. I had a Hyundai once and the reliability was horrible. I think there is also a mindset of a domestic owner on the trail or street that causes breakdowns. Whether that is street racing or hard wheeling off-road. Just my observations while hanging with Jeep owners and Toyota owners off-road. I don't judge others by their purchase but it would be interesting to see the reliability factor look at the human and mechanical equation for a complete answer.
 

Box Rocket

Well-known member
I find it interesting when people brag how wonderful their Toyota has been (especially one they don't own anymore) when it is put as if nothing else can compare to it, because I could brag just the same about how great my 1994 Ford Ranger has been too (and I still own it... Why would I sell what continues to be a good reliable truck? (Ok, maybe if needs change I s'pose is a reason to sell) But as they say, age (mileage) is just a number :) ).

It has the Cologne OHV 4.0L V6 and M5OD 5-speed trans. Both this engine and the trans are easily 300K+ mile units when maintained. The truck is lifted and has 33" tires on it, yet still can hit low-20s MPG hwy. The only trouble it has given me I brought onto myself through abuse during my younger years (launching 4 feet airborne and shock loading the drivetrain I don't think is conducive to the longevity of any vehicle lol :D Nor is an oiled gauze-type air cleaner to longevity of engine sensors). I have had to deal with a gas tank filler neck hose that split apart, and an A/C hose that developed a leak, but beyond that (even in spite of the earlier abuse I subjected it to) it has needed little beyond normal consumable items... fluid & filter changes, brake pads, etc., oh and a belt idler pulley bearing. I just treated it to a brand new set of Toyo M/T tires which I have yet to take pictures of.

Aftermarket for these trucks is also very strong. Suspension kits, axle gears & differential lockers abound. Aftermarket may be a little bit weaker for body bolt-ons like bumpers & armor, but it is there if you look for it. Payload is much greater than any similar Toyota (1650lbs with the #2 option)... and there is nothing you can do to the suspension and/or axle that legally increases GVWR/GAWR.



I think what happens when people participate in reliability surveys, many often conveniently "forget" about certain problems they may have had with their Toyota (or simply write them off as anomalies) due to a double-standard that exists. It's the only thing I can come up with because I've seen no evidence of this supposed superior reliability among the many Toyota vehicles owned by friends & family (I can break it down if anyone is interested, though the post would probably get pretty long). Though something else I have noticed too is neglect of regular vehicle maintenance seems to be more common among owners of domestic makes than Toyota owners (especially so when it comes to used vehicle purchases). Why this is I haven't a clue, but indeed it would affect the reliability outcome of any vehicle (I had a friend that bought a used Ford Focus (the limited "Kona" edition that came with the bicycle, though it was missing the bike when he bought it)... never once did he change a damn fluid in that car. Drove it into the ground and then junked it. It was a very nice car that ran well when he bought it).
I'm guessing your first paragraph is directed at me? To address that, I have a wife and 4 kids who are regularly with me on trips. We simply did not fit in my Tacoma. If I made solo trips, I would definitely still own that truck. I bought the truck when my wife had our twins. So there were a few years where she and our twins did not go on trips with me so it worked well for me and my two older boys. Now that we all travel better the Tacoma wasn't going to work. Simple as that. It wasn't sold because of any deficiency that I felt it had.
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I also find it interest when people criticize a vehicle they have never owned. :)
 

Dalko43

Explorer
If I were making a similar vehicle selection my list would look something like this:
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota 100 Series Land Cruiser
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota 80 series Land Cruiser
Nissan Xterra
Nissan Frontier
Toyota Tundra
Jeep JKU
Jeep XJ
Mitsubishi Montero
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover LR3
Dodge Ram
Hummer H3
Ford F150

Placing a Land Rover over a Ram (no longer Dodge Ram) and Ford F-150? Not sure many would agree with that order, at least as far as reliability is concerned.

That list is your opinion of course, but you're comparing a lot of vehicles from different categories and classes. I wouldn't cross-shop a JKU with a F-150 or Tundra. And to be honest, a Toyota SUV from 10-20 years ago, is a lot more likely to have problems than a brand new truck from just about any manufacturer. I know Toyota's are reliable, but age and wear has its affects. So ranking a 20+ year old LC 80 over a brand new F-150 or Ram pickup (for reliability) seems more than a little biased, but that's just me.

4x4junkie you hit upon a very important observation, maintenance. First up reliability is determined by more than feel good interviews of vehicle owners. Recalls, dealer repairs, and many other factors are figured into the reliability statistics. Also there is a perception that American vehicles are crap because of the movement toward cheaper, better emission, and better mpg vehicles during the 70's and 80's. This is not the case as much today but for some who were burned in the past like me, have moved on to brand reliability elsewhere. I believe that the maintenance factor with American vehicles is not performed for the same reason why people buy American, price point. Most people purchase beyond what they can afford so maintenance suffers. But most import buyers tend to understand that maintenance is as important as the purchase. I'd would like to see a study that looks at those kind of details before a final conclusion. Personally for me Honda and Toyota have never let me down over the last 25 years or so. I had a Hyundai once and the reliability was horrible. I think there is also a mindset of a domestic owner on the trail or street that causes breakdowns. Whether that is street racing or hard wheeling off-road. Just my observations while hanging with Jeep owners and Toyota owners off-road. I don't judge others by their purchase but it would be interesting to see the reliability factor look at the human and mechanical equation for a complete answer.

Hit the nail on the head! The quality of American trucks, and cars in general, has improved significantly from what it was not even 10-15 years ago. I love my 4runner, and Toyota trucks in general, but I can't help but admire some of the newer designs put out by the domestic brands. And they seem to be doing fairly well in terms of durability and reliability.

Toyota still takes the cake when it comes to reliability, because they're toyota and they like to play it conservative with their engines and designs. But Ram, GMC, and Chevy weren't far behind in a 2016 study done by JD Power: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

I think anyone who disregards an American brand just because they're American is playing favorites.
 
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Box Rocket

Well-known member
Placing a Land Rover over a Ram (no longer Dodge Ram) and Ford F-150? Not sure many would agree with that order, at least as far as reliability is concerned.

That list is your opinion of course, but you're comparing a lot of vehicles from different categories and classes. I wouldn't cross-shop a JKU with a F-150 or Tundra. And to be honest, a Toyota SUV from 10-20 years ago, is a lot more likely to have problems than a brand new truck from just about any manufacturer. I know Toyota's are reliable, but age and wear has its affects. So ranking a 20+ year old LC 80 over a brand new F-150 or Ram pickup (for reliability) seems more than a little biased, but that's just me
I don't disagree with you much on that actually. My list could be a bit misleading but it's not meant to imply that I would cross shop everything on that list. You're right there are a few different catagories represented there.
I'll have to disagree with you about the 80/f150 comparison. Perhaps I'm slight biased but my actual experience has been excellent reliability from two different 80 series. My '93 that I sold last year was purchased in 2000 with 100k miles. Other than routine maintenance it was trouble free for 15 years and I sold it with over 300k miles, many of which were offroad. My current 80 has been very reliable as well. I have a co-worker with a 2014 F150 that complains about it being in the shop all the time and it never sees dirt. I had a brother in law who also had one purchased brand new in 2006 and had many problems. Sure there can be isolated cases for any vehicle but from my experience I'd take a 20 year old 80 every day over any F150. But like you said, that's just me. Someone else could have a different experience.
As for the list, I have the LR ahead of the F150 purely because of size, not because of reliability. The places I like to go would often be too tight for a full size truck. There's a reason the LRs are low on that list.
I don't discount domestics for domestics sake, most of them are just too big. The Dodge Ram that is more in the middle of the list is big too and I doubt I'd ever be is a position that I'd be choosing one of those for myself but out of the big three it's one that would consider.
The brand debate will continue forever. Everyone has different criteria and that list just represents what fit my personal criteria and how I balance the factors of reliability, size, comfort, factory and aftermarket support, payload, etc.
I don't fault anyone for choosing differently. I'm sure their criteria is not the same as mine.
 

CTSJOE

New member
Expedition or Fun camping vehicle

I am A Toyota guy. Don't get me wrong you can make almost any vehicle a descent expedition vehicle with enough time and money. But out ov the box it is hard to beat a Toyota. The 60 or 80 series wagons are pretty tough. They may be a little big, but both have tough solid axles front and rear. The 80 series are available with factory diff locks front and rear and are inexpensive to lift 2 or3 inches for bigger tires. Both have good cargo space. Both have been in service all over the world. The tacoma's ad FJ cruisers work pretty well, but have IFS front ends which usually aren't as durable as solis axles. Both have available factory rear diff locks. Plenty of aftermarket support. I work on these Toyotas every day, and wheel them and have used them for camping,hunting,exploring for years. I have had them on some of the hardest trails in places like Moab,the Colorado mountains, The Arizona desert, etc. The Toyotas are usually the last to break down on the trails. The trailer you may be towing should be able to be towed by any of the vehicles people have been recommending on this forum.
 

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