Thoughts on Ram ProMaster FWD Vans?

[Sisyphus]

Today I was researching what the new cargo van manufacturers had to offer to see what might work for a DIY camper conversion and I came across Ram and their new cargo vans that have FWD.

Consider that these FWD vans come in +/- $20,000 less over Mercedes new Sprinter 4x4 vans, I think they might be a great option for those van-dwellers who need that extra little traction for getting to the trailhead in the shoulder season when there's a little snow on the ground or other minor off-road circumstances.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Haf-E]

Are you thinking FWD means Four Wheel Drive?

The ProMaster is Front Wheel Drive only - havent heard any conversion available other than a system offered in France called "Dangel".

Biggest issue I think is the ground clearance is low - especially the rear axle. Dont think it would be great off road - but neither is a 2WD Sprinter...

 

[DiploStrat]

Half of the RV's in Europe use that Fiat front wheel drive. Works great until you try to drive a heavy camper up a steep grade. (Weight transfers to rear axle and front axle loses traction.)

 

[Bbasso]

I don't have any knowledge of the promaster vans but front wheel drive on the other hand I know a little...
After owning RWD E350(s) in many different climates I can't see any benefits of FWD in a rig as heavy as ours...

 

[Sisyphus]

Yes, I was referring to them as Front Wheel Drive.

Diplostrat, hadn't considered how it would do going up a hill.

Would drivability in the snow be the only noticeable benefit of a FWD van, then?

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Just look at the rear axle of a ProMaster - it is not going to get you anywhere off road but stuck.

 

[Keyne]

Yeah it's too bad about that rear axle. Every time I am driving behind one I think of how low that is.

 

[homemade]

The low ground clearance is unfortunate but probably about the same as standard volkswagen westfalia. The Sprinter 4x4 sounds great, just too expensive.
I haven't had a low ground clearance vehicle in years, the last one I had was a short wheelbase Dodge Caravan FWD that I never got stuck with and I see way more small, low ground clearance sedans on rutted forest service roads leading to trail heads than I see high ground clearance 4x4s. I have seen a couple small cars with broken front spoilers but I don't recall ever seeing one stuck on a forest road including some that I thought were challenging to my F350 "off road" 4x4 but I stay out of deep mud. I once had a Ford E150 conversion van which was nice for road trip but about as much fun as driving a barge and it would get stuck on wet grass. I would prefer front wheel drive any day over RWD and gas over diesel.

In a couple years I might get a Promaster short wheelbase, high roof, add a couple sliding windows to the sides, minimal camper type conversion, maybe some higher profile tires to add 1/2" to ground clearance, if possible. There are a lot of them around used and inexpensive. For someone that isn't a Baja ironman it would probably work out pretty well for what you indicate and what I would mostly use it for.

Anyone actually have one that can give their perspective?

 

[Keyne]

There are a bunch of folks that have the Winnebago Travato camper. Not Expo per se but they have an active Facebook page. Also Fitrv has one and have winterized it, upgraded the rear suspension with extra 4 inches, and do mild back road gravel driving. They are super nice and would most likely answer any questions.

Also there is a detailed Travato review (link below) from a European couple that lived in one for 6 months traveling the US and they took it off-road in Utah without problems even with the hang down propane connections, etc. Depending on how you want to use it it a PM could be a nice option especially given the price.

We live in Boston so for us it could be a nice choice for a fly fishing and hiking base camp (trail heads, etc) but not off road. My problem was the driver seat... I am 6 feet and found it really cramped. If I can get the seat issue sorted I think it could a great first choice for us and maybe a future more off-road setup... Really want to move West.

Links

https://travato2014.wordpress.com/full-review/

http://www.thefitrv.com/

 

[KarstenP]

Having driven many miles in different years Fiat Ducatos (that's what the RAM ProMaster is), I don't even want to come closer than 100ft to one.
They're loud, rattling, have horrendous bump steer from the front wheel drive when you hit the gas, even with the 180hp diesel we get as the max engine here. I don't even want to think about what the steering wheel goes like with the V6 gasser in that turd.
The main reason half of Europe is using the Fiat as base vehicle is cost and the possibility to only get the front half of it and add a frame aft cab to built the camper on.
I take my old E-Series or any Sprinter over a brand new Fiat anyday.
Oh yeah, traction, BTW, is none of the strengths of this vehicle. Add an inch of snow and get out the chains.

 

[jhl99]

I went from a 2003 Honda Element, AWD, with 200K+ Miles to a 2015 136" Low roof Promaster with 15K miles last fall. I don't go off road... just gravel forest roads and sometimes some snow. The Honda would drag the fuel tank 'cage' in 8" of snow, but always went like crazy, even when the AWD only engaged the rear wheels once the front wheels has some slippage.

Winter 2015-2016 wasn't very snowy in the Mid Atlantic USA, so I didn't get full impressions of driving the Pro Master in the snow. I can say it doesn't go as good as the Honda did...

So far, I really like the Promaster. Drives nice, 3.6 (gasoline) is peppy enough, the only thing is I wish I could defeat the transmissions automatic downshift... when you go down a long hill and your foot is off the gas and your speed creeps up, the thing automatically downshifts and it won't upshift until the conditions are correct. (I come from driving manual transmissions). Where I live, we have a lot of steep up down and steep down, I would like to just let the van coast up to 70-75 the bottom of the grades and let it zoom up the next hill, instead, the transmission wants to hold me at 60, unless I give it some gas.

I'm working on a basic camper conversion... so far insulated the floor, build sleeping platform, enclosed wheel wells, built in desk.... The low step in is nice (The Promaster doesn't have the foot well by the slider door that other vans have). I'm 6' and can almost stand in the low roof version. I agree that the drivers seat is a little cramped. I'm getting 18-20 MPG on regular unleaded.


(Chains needed on ice)

To address prior posting:
I believe that the US Pro Master is reworked for higher load capacity and larger engines.
US 3.6l is 260 HP
Steering might not have much feedback, but it is solid.

 

[homemade]

Thanks for the firsthand information.

 

[kudzu]

Just went through this decision process. Do I get a used Promaster or an AWD Express or Savana? I liked a lot of things about the Promaster. The steering felt loosey-goosey but it was easy to adjust to that. Overall, it seemed to handle well. We don't do any real off-road stuff but do get into situations where traction is an issue. At those times, FWD has always served me better than RWD. There was a lot to like about it. My real worry with FWD only is towing up steep hills, especially if we have to take off from a stop. Also, in the cargo version with three large dogs in the rear we'd have to keep the A/C cranked up high in the Summer, freezing ourselves to keep the dogs cool. Aftermarket rear A/C is available but way out of my budget. There were no options for additional passengers in the cargo version, no second row seats or even side windows on any used vans in our area. The passenger version comes with rear A/C & additional windows but it's MUCH bigger than I want to drive with a correspondingly higher purchase price. There are aftermarket windows, seats & rear A/C that could be added to the cargo van but the cost was price prohibitive for me.

After some thinking & shopping, I bought an AWD Express passenger van that has the rear A/C. It has too many windows, has less interior height & is longer than the Promaster, all of which are negatives for my situation. However, the AWD, rear & side windows that open, rear A/C & lower purchase price were all big positives. And it can fit in the garage if needed. So far I'm pleased except for one thing I completely overlooked. There are no tie-down points inside this van. In an emergency stop we'd have things sliding around. So will be adding those very soon. It tows my little Aliner easily. (And I don't have to worry about tongue weight the way I did with my Transit Connect.) Another plus are the greater availability of parts & aftermarket items for the Express/Savana compared to the Promaster.

We do still think longingly about the interior height & stripped down interior of the Promaster. For me, it was well worth the trade-offs. I'm happy with the choice.

 

[86cj]

Kudzu,
I just read about this issue recently in this article: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/article/story/2016/05/choosing-between-vans-and-pickups.aspx?utm_campaign=enews-tuesday-20160523&utm_source=Email&utm_medium=Enewsletter&btm_ea=Y25hc3NhbkBhcmlmbGVldC5jb20=

For fleets operating in more inclement conditions, pickups may be favorable for other reasons.

“In winter driving conditions, drivers prefer four-wheel drive, which dictates pickup trucks as the choice,” Brightwell said. “Also, tail-loading the new vans can cause a shift in the center-of gravity, which takes pressure off the front-wheel drive of the Ram ProMasters; in the wintertime, this can be a concern, as can the steering of the Ford Transits, even though they are rear-wheel drive. This can dictate the use of pickup trucks.”

Mike DeCesare, regional truck manager for ARI, believes the major challenge in the van market is the lack of all-wheel drive or 4X4 capability, along with towing concerns.

“We typically do not recommend towing in the van segment,” he said. “With the ability to put a large volume and weight in a van, max towing capability declines quickly.




Looks like the old body on frame vans are worth keeping around if you want any offroad capability and long term durability, the new vans chassis are just built for street delivery and quick replacement. I like the idea of a factory hightop but that is the only thing I like about them, and a fiberglass top has no real drawbacks long term other than you have to put it on.

Kudzu, the AWD 1500 Van has rack and pinion steering like the new Euro vans, has 4 decent 13" rotors with hydro-boost brakes like 3/4 tons and a time tested 10 bolt rear axle that has many upgrades available. The 7300 GVW chassis feels very comfortable loaded, Rear A/C Heat is a must in an open van no compromise...............

 

[calicamper]

Ford Transit is rear wheel Drive.

I've read about on old dude thats done a few big trips in his converted Promaster. He keeps to typical paved and maintained gravel roads. His deal was stealth campability in a compact size. Which case his van has been pretty good for him. I think it was 3.2L v6? Going off memory of his trip blog. I think he reported 18-20mpg trip averages, but his set up is pretty clean not much mounted on the outside. Its pretty stealth mode.