Give me the truth, are Land Rovers complete crap?

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I just think of the trail heads I park at. Certain really cool vehicles parked in the same are make it so much easier leaving my Subaru or toyota knowing no one will screw with em.

I'd love to have a lux SUV but every time I go hiking. I smile knowing my ride probably has the lowest screw with it factor parked at scetchy lots. ;-)
 

kcabpilot

Observer
No they don't. They're semi float with unit bearing hubs front and rear.

Maybe just difference in terminology but semi floating axle for me means wheel bolts to flange on axle shaft which bears the load of the vehicle, full floating means axle shaft does not bear vehicle weight, only turns the hub which supports the weight.

As for reliability we've owned a D2 for about eight years now and although a head gasket went, front driveshaft started chirping, one of the rollers on driver's door window regulator broke, the 3 Amigos appeared and one of the air springs began leaking I was able to fix everything myself and never once has it left us stranded. Always was able to make it home.
 

XJLI

Adventurer
Maybe just difference in terminology but semi floating axle for me means wheel bolts to flange on axle shaft which bears the load of the vehicle, full floating means axle shaft does not bear vehicle weight, only turns the hub which supports the weight.

That is correct. D2s are semi-float.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/1012or-full-floating-vs-semi-floating-axle-tech/

A semi-floating axle is very common on the rear of most 4WDs. It consists of an axle shaft on each side that is splined on the inner end where it mates to the differential and has a wheel flange where the wheel studs mount at the other end. This assembly typically mates to the end of the axle housing using some type of bolted flange arrangement. The axle shaft also rides on a large roller or ball bearing out at the end of the axle housing.

For a full-floating system, the axle shaft only serves to transmit the rotational torque from the differential out to the wheel. It does not carry the weight of the vehicle as a semi-floater does. On a full floater, a spindle is attached to the outer end of the axle housing. The wheel hub is mounted on this spindle and rides on tapered roller bearings. It is this assembly that carries the vehicle weight. As such, a full-floating axle system is considerably stronger than an equivalently sized semi-floating system.
 

kcabpilot

Observer
That is correct. D2s are semi-float...

While we agree on the terminology you are incorrect about the D2. Here is a picture of a rear bearing hub, the axle shaft is splined at both ends and does not bear the weight of the vehicle. I can also refer you to the Discovery 2 Workshop Manual page 51-1 for an exploded diagram of the rear axle.

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Scott Brady

Founder
They are not complete crap. I have owned tons of them. Are they less reliable than a Land Cruiser? Of course.

If you are looking for durability and reliability in a Land Rover, buy a 200 or 300 Tdi Defender. The one we have has been nearly flawless, certainly on par reliability-wise with our BJ74 TLC and G-Class. The Range Rover Classic- less so. The Range Rover MKIII we owned was super reliable. Our current 2015 Range Rover is 100% flawless, oil changes only. The 2012 LR4 was also flawless.
 

vitola231

Observer
This will sound odd but here it goes. I came from toyota's but this is personal opinion. My full size range rover is a 2007, in last 60,000km I haven't even changed a light bulb, the machine just doesn't seem to brake, everything on it is original. My wife LR3 is 2006 and had compressor changed and one ride high sensor. I have been thinking of my air suspension lately and maybe just changing bags because they are over 10 years old but they look brand new. I do see some small wear differences between vehicles though, at 150,000km I'm only on my second set of tires, my wife's LR3 is on its third set at 98,000 km. The LR3 has a very good body on it, my L322 is developing some rust around wheels I must take care of. Both vehicles are comfortable, the range rover is very very comfy, 12 hours of driving is nothing. Parts are cheap if you buy at wholesaler. So here is odd part, the range rover has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned by far and its tough, interior looks new. I hope this experience helps you out, I'm very happy with both vehicles and if I had to replace today I would buy the same without doubt.
 

kcabpilot

Observer
Here's the bottom line, the last D2 was built 12 years ago so if you're looking at ANY truck that's 12 years old and you're not mechanically inclined you're nuts. At this point a Disco is as reliable as you make it. Toyota may have a mythical reliability reputation and for a new truck it's quantified and verfiably true but you are going to pay for that reputation out of your wallet when you buy that eighteen thousand dollar Land Cruiser with 250,000 miles on it and any 12 year old truck still has an element of "crap shoot" in the bargain. Fact is that Discos have a bad rep and the result is you can get them dirt cheap. Fact two is that you can fix them and all of the typical issues can be completely put to rest. Fact three is there's just something about the darn things that you're not going to get from Consumer Reports.

Everybody wants one but they're not for everybody.

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XJLI

Adventurer
While we agree on the terminology you are incorrect about the D2. Here is a picture of a rear bearing hub, the axle shaft is splined at both ends and does not bear the weight of the vehicle. I can also refer you to the Discovery 2 Workshop Manual page 51-1 for an exploded diagram of the rear axle.

Well, ****. That is interesting. The more you know I guess.
 

GREENI

Adventurer
Complete crap?
I've owned around 40, I currently own 2 Defenders and a Ninety.

Would I have a 100 Series TLC? Oh hell yes, but they lack soul. In fact, I think about owning one every week!

What I would say, being in the UK and exposed to many and having worked for a Land Rover specialist....any Land Rover product without beam axles is best to be avoided...they aren't complete crap, just 80% crap.
 
Like going to a Jeep forum and saying "Jeeps suck"!
Like going to a Harley forum and saying "Harleys suck"!

The topic/title of this thread kind of disgusts me! Are we being asked to justify the existence of the very love of our Green Oval vehicles that brings us to this site?

I park my eight-year-old Land Rover LR3 next to any eight-year-old same class SUV, and I smile and sleep comfortable at night knowing I made the right purchase four years ago. Was the Disco 3 the best Landy ever produced, likely not! However, I am sure I got more "lifestyle, adventure, and smiles" out of my dollar for it than ANY other four-wheeled vehicle I've owned! Are they for everyone, surely not! When I pass a Landy of any flavor on the road, I notice it, wave, and Rover on!

Every aging vehicle requires preventive maintenance, TLC, and a bit of know-how to maintain them on our own or they can break the bank no matter what emblem is on the hood.

I'm 99.9% sure some version of a Green Oval will be in my driveway/garage as long as I'm able to drive.

Rover on my friends, Rover on!
 

kcabpilot

Observer
Here, here jolly well put (ha, ha) Crap or not I don't give two twits what the outside world thinks. Either you get it or you don't.
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
I own a 2008 LR3 and my family has owned every rover since the original S1 Disco. I absolutely love these trucks, but they can be a bit fragile if not looked after. I agree with most people on here: Go with an 06-09. Avoid the Disco 1 & 2 like the plague. With proper maintenance, an LR3 or a RRS are capable of going over a quarter of a million miles. When I was working at an LR dealership in college as a porter, I once drove an LR3 with 226k miles on it. If I hadn't looked at the ODO, I would've imagined it had around 70k on it judging from the interior and exterior.

On an somewhat related note: No car is perfect. My cousin has a 2009 Tacoma with a nasty lifter noise, despite the fact that it was meticulously maintained. Sometimes you just have **** luck with vehicles.

My recommendation is to aim for the nicest example you can find. If you need help with this, DM me directly and I'll contact my friends at the dealer I used to work at in Miami. I purchased my LR3 in January 2015 with only 16,000 miles on it. They're very good at finding low mileage cars that people only use as vacation house cars.


I've been debating on a Range Rover Sport for my next vehicle. Probably an 06-09 model due to my budget. I've owned Toyota's my whole life. Tacomas, 4runners, pickups, fj40's, you name it except for my latest truck which is a Chevy Z71 08 model that I use to pull my 20ft boat. I do like the Chevy but thought about trying something else for a change.

I have a company vehicle so this will not be a daily driver. I put about 5-8k miles on it a year. I've been looking at the RR sport but everybody I talk to says NO to Land Rovers unless I can get one that's still in the warranty period. What are your thoughts on this? I know your opinions may be skewed due to this site but I figured I'd get the real truth.

I've always worked on my own vehicles and I have 9 years of shop experience. I'm thinking if anything fails short of something major I should be able to take care of it myself vs going to the dealer.

I would most likely have to purchase one over the 100k mile mark.

Thoughts?
 

wchane

New member
My Disco II was one of the few automobiles that I missed after I sold it. Don''t get me wrong, it was complete junk. Probably finished at the 5pm on a Friday with beers in hand, but it was incredible when it did work.

Years later I stumbled upon a 91 RRC and against all good judgement I picked it up. It has nearly 300k on the odo and has yet to let me down. *knocks on wood*
 

ze_zaskar

Observer
I live in Portugal, so I'll post from an European perspective.
I've owned 4 Land Rovers so far, a 2.5 P38 RR, a Disco II TD5 on the past and now a Disco I 300Tdi and a Defender 90 Tdi. My parents own a Disco 3 (LR3) TDV6, which I end up driving a lot.
Most of what I'll say applies to the RR Classics, Discos I, Defenders and somewhat to the Discos II.


Land Rovers, like any quirky brand, are easy to pick on.
Most of all, they have very, very good design concepts, most of their flaws are related to the used materials. In other words, awesome engineers, weak procurement/finance.

Their rear linkage design is very hard to beat for wheel travel. Even commercial models with hard springs articulate quite well.

They've used full floating axles since the beginning. They'r let down by the halfshafts metallurgy, but it's an easy and cheap upgrade. The axle casings (except the diff pan) are very strong. Companies use the 130s here in EU for all sorts of weird things, typically chronically overloaded. Guess which trucks in the same fleets get bent axle casings? Yes, the Japanese ones.

Defenders have amazing payload capacities. Even my short 90 has a technical gross weight of 2700kg, weighting 1800kg. That's a 900kg payload, more than a LWB Patrol GU.

200/300Tdi engines are amazing, near a pinacle of CPUless offroad engines. Very reliable, lightweight and incredible economical. My Defender will frequently do 27 to 30 mpg(US), while the Disco do 30 to 32mpg. A 4000cm3 version would probably be perfect.

The chassis are very well designed, full boxed. They are prone to rust, but that's easily solved with correct wax or linseed oil treatment. The very big sections mean they are not s prone to cracks as other designs. Once again, looking at commercial fleets, you'll mostly see the "indestructible" Japanese pickups having chassis cracks.

The R380 is a very, very good gearbox, very reliable and durable, together with the LT230 transferbox, also very good (gear driven).

They have bolt on axle stubs and swivel balls, easy and cheap to replace vs welded ones.

They are not without problems, obviously.
Electrics are not their strength, so the less the best, making pre-TD5s diesels the best.
They only knew how to make reliable petrol engines up to the 80's.
If you'r into very hard core offroad you'll need to peg the diffs, the crownwheels are on the thin side and might jump the pinion under very heavy loads/shocks.
Interior plastics suck. My Defender is a commercial fleet model, untrimmed, but everything else has cr@ppy plastics.
They tend to rust if not protected.
You'll see that most drivetrain and suspension parts have a HD version, for a reason.

One needs to get over myths to propperly evaluate different brands.
Here in Portugal weekend warriors mostly use LRs and Nissan Patrols (Y60 and Y61s), which means a lot of rivalry between brands. LR owners really annoy Nissan guys when they say they can carry spare halfshafts and CVs in the truck, but not spare engines or gearboxes. Patrols might have nearly Dana60 strength axles but they suffer from various sorts off engine problems, cracked heads, broken chaindriven transferboxes and worn off 5th gears on the gearboxes.

Toyotas are nice but not without problems. The LC80 diesel engines have bearing problems, most of them here have been rebuild.
Swivel balls are welded to the axle and are developing an habit to break at the kinkpins, as are the swivel housings.
CVs are strong for rockcrawling, but work harden and break in weird situations. You'll see lots of reports of this happening in Africa.



Buy a Defender, RRC or a Disco I, slap a Tdi engine in it and you'll have a car for live, very capable, economical and with very long term parts availability
 

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
There are probably more LRs on the roads that qualify as crap more than any other brand. The hard reality is, for the better part of a couple decades, quality control was not LRs strong suit. A problematic LR can represent a continual battle with a never ending stream of repairs to tackle. So, yes, some are complete and utter junk. That is further compounded by people who don't maintain them in the way a LR needs to be maintained. I had a girlfriend in college with a Toyota she bought new. She didn't change or check the oil for 12,000 miles and only did so when she got a flat tire having never checked the tire pressure. That type of thing would never happen with a LR. They need vigilant attention from the day they roll off the lot.
 

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