Expedition Overland Show & HAM Radios...and Business USe

[DaveInDenver]

The race support net was likely using a repeater but it's also not unusual that a relay might be needed from a race marshall, EMT or support who may be in a radio dead zone. So it's possible the .520 traffic was just that, someone relaying information between the net and someone in an important location. Doesn't answer why they wouldn't choose a different simplex because the national calling should be left open, though.

Kurt, those guys running race radios are under the FCC rules. The spectrum from 150 to 174MHz is coordinated, the FCC calls it PLMR (private land mobile radio). If they are running unlicensed then they are illegal. It's possible they are using the MURS assigned frequencies, which are 151.820, 151.880, 151.940, 154.570, 154.600. That's also a licensed (like CB, the rule is the license) service, though.

Are they running narrow band? That's also a requirement for VHF with the exception of the amateur bands. There is an itinerant use, too, but I'm not familiar with how that works and whether it needs to be licensed and/or coordinated. It's also possible they are renting radios and using pool business frequencies, meaning the owner of the radios has the license and rents them on an ad hoc basis.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The race support net was likely using a repeater but it's also not unusual that a relay might be needed from a race marshall, EMT or support who may be in a radio dead zone. So it's possible the .520 traffic was just that, someone relaying information between the net and someone in an important location. Doesn't answer why they wouldn't choose a different simplex because the national calling should be left open, though.

Kurt, those guys running race radios are under the FCC rules. The spectrum from 150 to 174MHz is coordinated, the FCC calls it PLMR (private land mobile radio). If they are running unlicensed then they are illegal. It's possible they are using the MURS assigned frequencies, which are 151.820, 151.880, 151.940, 154.570, 154.600. That's also a licensed (like CB, the rule is the license) service, though.

Are they running narrow band? That's also a requirement for VHF with the exception of the amateur bands. There is an itinerant use, too, but I'm not familiar with how that works and whether it needs to be licensed and/or coordinated. It's also possible they are renting radios and using pool business frequencies, meaning the owner of the radios has the license and rents them on an ad hoc basis.

Nobody (well, perhaps 99%) in the racing realm are licensed, they simply buy the radios from one of dozens of vendors selling mobile and handheld units. Frequencies are the Wild West, you tell the racing sanctioning body which is your primary frequency but it is quite common for 2 or more teams to be running on the same frequency at a larger race. These races take place in Utah, Nevada, California, Arizona and Mexico. Our team (Canguro 8155) just competed in the Baja 1000, while the majority of our team members are HAM, we still run on 158.500 as that was an open frequency within the bands BFGoodrich Pits and their Relay can handle and we are required to make contact with them.

 

[Chris Boyd]

It's also possible the races are running GMRS, which requires a license, but less restrictive in that it allows for a bit more power than FRS and and repeaters that can be used for any permitted use under part 95. It also has some benefit in that manufacturers are building radios that allow for separated antennas, easing the burden of in-car comms.

It's pretty well known that rugged radio is skirting the law and I've heard mention they have FCC action pending against them for loading frequencies that require licenses on to their radios. They represent that no licenses are required when you buy their stuff... as a ham, this does bother me.

 

[Oldmancrash]

OK so before I responded to this thread I spent a few days and went and watched a bunch of the Expedition Overland shows again so I could see for myself this commercial abuse of amateur frequencies. Great series and videos by some good people. But nowhere in any of the shows did I see or hear that they were being paid for their communications or received money as a direct means of communications thus making them commercial usage. Yes they used the radios in efforts to keep health and safety communications. Maybe once in a while tell a joke or 2 and heaven forbid the camera was on during the communications. But oh wait a minute..... they didn't discuss the weather. That's why people are up in arms. As that's about all that is discussed on the bands anymore these days. As was stated above "The only business that is allowed to be discussed is related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing" Well I think you had better tune in to some traffic nets. Not much of (related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing) this kind of junk there but lots of traffic handling of messages being forwarded of health and safety from around the world maritime and mobile. So because of a few clips in a couple of videos now people are ready to hang Expedition Overland for being over the top. Very very nice. In my 35+ years of amateur radio I am ashamed to say it's not the first time I have seen amateur radio operators respond like this. No wonder the younger generation is not interested in amateur radio with a bunch of grumpy old farts like this that don't want anyone to use their frequencies. I am so excited I think I am going to go fire up my ol ICOM and dial in on some chatter about used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing. Can you see why the hobby is dying? Oh yea also if you all are so condemning about who is licensed and who isn't maybe you should do some research and look for control operator rules. Not everyone has to be licensed! My GOD "HAM" operators. Get over yourselves! Thank you Clay and group for all your hard work showing us something many of us will never be able to see to these extremes never mind live

 

[paranoid56]

OK so before I responded to this thread I spent a few days and went and watched a bunch of the Expedition Overland shows again so I could see for myself this commercial abuse of amateur frequencies. Great series and videos by some good people. But nowhere in any of the shows did I see or hear that they were being paid for their communications or received money as a direct means of communications thus making them commercial usage. Yes they used the radios in efforts to keep health and safety communications. Maybe once in a while tell a joke or 2 and heaven forbid the camera was on during the communications. But oh wait a minute..... they didn't discuss the weather. That's why people are up in arms. As that's about all that is discussed on the bands anymore these days. As was stated above "The only business that is allowed to be discussed is related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing" Well I think you had better tune in to some traffic nets. Not much of (related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing) this kind of junk there but lots of traffic handling of messages being forwarded of health and safety from around the world maritime and mobile. So because of a few clips in a couple of videos now people are ready to hang Expedition Overland for being over the top. Very very nice. In my 35+ years of amateur radio I am ashamed to say it's not the first time I have seen amateur radio operators respond like this. No wonder the younger generation is not interested in amateur radio with a bunch of grumpy old farts like this that don't want anyone to use their frequencies. I am so excited I think I am going to go fire up my ol ICOM and dial in on some chatter about used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing. Can you see why the hobby is dying? Oh yea also if you all are so condemning about who is licensed and who isn't maybe you should do some research and look for control operator rules. Not everyone has to be licensed! My GOD "HAM" operators. Get over yourselves! Thank you Clay and group for all your hard work showing us something many of us will never be able to see to these extremes never mind live

couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[dstock]

OK so before I responded to this thread I spent a few days and went and watched a bunch of the Expedition Overland shows again so I could see for myself this commercial abuse of amateur frequencies. Great series and videos by some good people. But nowhere in any of the shows did I see or hear that they were being paid for their communications or received money as a direct means of communications thus making them commercial usage. Yes they used the radios in efforts to keep health and safety communications. Maybe once in a while tell a joke or 2 and heaven forbid the camera was on during the communications. But oh wait a minute..... they didn't discuss the weather. That's why people are up in arms. As that's about all that is discussed on the bands anymore these days. As was stated above "The only business that is allowed to be discussed is related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing" Well I think you had better tune in to some traffic nets. Not much of (related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing) this kind of junk there but lots of traffic handling of messages being forwarded of health and safety from around the world maritime and mobile. So because of a few clips in a couple of videos now people are ready to hang Expedition Overland for being over the top. Very very nice. In my 35+ years of amateur radio I am ashamed to say it's not the first time I have seen amateur radio operators respond like this. No wonder the younger generation is not interested in amateur radio with a bunch of grumpy old farts like this that don't want anyone to use their frequencies. I am so excited I think I am going to go fire up my ol ICOM and dial in on some chatter about used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing. Can you see why the hobby is dying? Oh yea also if you all are so condemning about who is licensed and who isn't maybe you should do some research and look for control operator rules. Not everyone has to be licensed! My GOD "HAM" operators. Get over yourselves! Thank you Clay and group for all your hard work showing us something many of us will never be able to see to these extremes never mind live

Totally agree and I will add this kind of behavior is a complete turn off to me to getting in to HAM.

 

[Oldmancrash]

Totally agree and I will add this kind of behavior is a complete turn off to me to getting in to HAM.

Thank you. But dont let this keep you from your license. There are a few really good elmers out there. My 2 best friends (25 years strong now) are a direct result of amateur radio. Go get your license and explore. I have never regretted it.

 

[dwh]

I remember when you had to have a license for CB. People ignored it until the FCC finally just gave up on the whole idea.

So there is precedent for ignoring the rules. If enough people do it, the rules can get changed.

 

[Jgranger]

OK so before I responded to this thread I spent a few days and went and watched a bunch of the Expedition Overland shows again so I could see for myself this commercial abuse of amateur frequencies. Great series and videos by some good people. But nowhere in any of the shows did I see or hear that they were being paid for their communications or received money as a direct means of communications thus making them commercial usage. Yes they used the radios in efforts to keep health and safety communications. Maybe once in a while tell a joke or 2 and heaven forbid the camera was on during the communications. But oh wait a minute..... they didn't discuss the weather. That's why people are up in arms. As that's about all that is discussed on the bands anymore these days. As was stated above "The only business that is allowed to be discussed is related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing" Well I think you had better tune in to some traffic nets. Not much of (related to ham radio, used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing) this kind of junk there but lots of traffic handling of messages being forwarded of health and safety from around the world maritime and mobile. So because of a few clips in a couple of videos now people are ready to hang Expedition Overland for being over the top. Very very nice. In my 35+ years of amateur radio I am ashamed to say it’s not the first time I have seen amateur radio operators respond like this. No wonder the younger generation is not interested in amateur radio with a bunch of grumpy old farts like this that don't want anyone to use their frequencies. I am so excited I think I am going to go fire up my ol ICOM and dial in on some chatter about used radios, on-air swap meets, repeater club business, that sort of thing. Can you see why the hobby is dying? Oh yea also if you all are so condemning about who is licensed and who isn't maybe you should do some research and look for control operator rules. Not everyone has to be licensed! My GOD "HAM" operators. Get over yourselves! Thank you Clay and group for all your hard work showing us something many of us will never be able to see to these extremes never mind live

Thanks for that. Started reading this thread and was getting to the point where I was thinking I should just not bother getting my license. Reassures me that there are some out there that aren't so uptight.
I'll have to find a place where I can get rained and licences one of these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tgreening]

I remember when you had to have a license for CB. People ignored it until the FCC finally just gave up on the whole idea.

So there is precedent for ignoring the rules. If enough people do it, the rules can get changed.

Yep, and we all know what trip to the cb channel is like.

While I'll agree some hams can get a bit stuffy, I've yet to encounter any I thought were over the top, though I've only been a ham around 25. I'll stick with the licensing. People tend to show more respect for something they have to earn (as easy as this really is) vs something just given.


I didn't dig too far into this specific issue beyond watching a few of the vids, which I did like, and never gave too much thought to wether what they were doing was commercial or not but I see someone mentioned they saw nothing in there that looked to be of commercial nature. Just a thought, and I really don't give too much of a hoot beyond whether it's factual or not, it aren't these vids posted on YouTube or something (don't remember)? If so they could be monetized through however it is people monetize crap via YouTube.

Anyway, I think there's a hamfest somewhere I need to check on and I for sure got to pass the weather info. People gots a right ta know!

 

[PhulesAU]

I remember when you had to have a license for CB. People ignored it until the FCC finally just gave up on the whole idea.

So there is precedent for ignoring the rules. If enough people do it, the rules can get changed.

If enough people do it, they can ruin it for everyone.

 

[dwh]

If enough people do it, they can ruin it for everyone.

Yea well, that's why democracy sucks.

 

[binrat]

Were they not using the Canadian LADD frequencies??

 

[b00ster]

HAM radio clubs have been providing race support and various charitable functions for years...and this is a sanctioned use of HAM freqs. I don't know all the regs, but many of the rules requiring station IDs every few min, limiting transmission time, yielding the repeater, etc are waived during these events. There are even special call signs / station IDs given out during the events....so to a casual listener/new HAM, it may sound like the HAM bands are being used for commercial purposes. The local HAM clubs here cover marathons, bike races, charity walks for First Aid, various competitor status, supplies, etc. The HAM bands/use of repeaters are more conducive/reliable than cell networks for broadcasting details to many stations during these events. These are a great way for people to learn how to use their equipment and speak/relay info on the radio - many of the HAM operators that support these events also participate in the local SAR, & RACES (emergency comms) activities.

amateur racing, offroading, and working events like you described (marathons, regattas, bike races, etc.) are the reasons that I have my HAM license. While I do have respect for the rules (as someone mentioned, when you earn it, people tend to have more respect) I think there is a population out there that want to interpret the rules so strictly that there wouldn't be much point in me maintaining my license. I totally don't agree with true commercial use of ham freqs but some of the events that I work at flirt with gray areas. Personally, I would much rather see people who generally respect the rules and customs of ham that may bend the rules slightly for a day or weekend each year than to have a bunch of dead air occasionally interrupted by a couple of people taking about what they're having for dinner. Unused bandwidth stands a greater risk of getting sold to the likes of a cell phone carrier. Also, I guarantee that if I were to take a younger novice or prospective ham to one of the races I work at they are going to get MUCH more interest in the hobby than they would tuning in to the local wednesday night clean out the shack swap meet. They would also learn much more about the complexities of operating within a formal 'net. And, comms are always more fun when you're doing 80 though the woods!