ahem , is it just me or do i see more off roading by montero owners...

['round n' back again]

than by the other forums (with the exception of the toy truck 4rnr, sammy bunch).

seems to be a lot of building but less breaking if you catch my drift...

 

[Michael Brown]

When you spend $20-30k on a vehicle and parts, it is hard to want to go offroad and scratch the nice paint. Spend $10k on a Montero and gas so you can actually go somewhere. :ylsmoke:

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Probably because Montero owners tend to spend less time fixing stuff and don't need to trailer their rigs everywhere.

 

['round n' back again]

.... or trailer them home

 

[nwoods]

When you spend $20-30k on a vehicle and parts, it is hard to want to go offroad and scratch the nice paint. Spend $10k on a Montero and gas so you can actually go somewhere. :ylsmoke:

I sure agree with this. Even though mine has been a littler pricier than anticipated, it's still dirt cheap all things considered, and I enjoy driving it like a rental

 

[Salonika]

Yeah as much as many would like them to have been more popular, we are all benefiting from them being unknown outside small circles.

 

[SONICMASD]

I totally agree with you guys. My buddy has a new 4runner, spent $30K on it, lives literally 1 mile from the national forest and never goes out because he doesn't want to get a single scratch on it. I live like 45minutes away from the forest and am out there several times a month. I've had the Monty on for at least 10 hours in a single day 3 separate times in the last month and she hasn't missed a beat. Other than blowing up a cigarette lighter somewhere on my November Utah trip, no issues.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

It's an overbuilding fetish that some nut job engineers at mitsu have had for a long time. Thankfully.

The cars got a lot of the same treatment, it's mostly where quality metal and good machining come together, for example;

The 4 cylinder engines are pretty much all capable of handling 400-500hp on stock internals, same goes for most of the V6 engines, just boost the hell out of them, they love it, make sure you fuel them enough, of course.

Manual transmissions when put behind low and medium power seem to hold up flawlessly, under heavy shock loads in drag racing they tend to have some issues but who wouldnt want to come apart when getting 5500-6000RPM forced on them in a millisecond drop of the hammer (clutch)?

Look at the above photo then consider the rear end of that car is the same ring and pinion as the front end of a Gen 1 4 cylinder montero, that's FRONT diff, the little baby 7.25" diff...



The auto trans in the AWD cars holds massive horsepower and is one of the more consistent drag cars out there.
The auto trans in the 4wd's is the same used in jeeps, toyotas, lexus and even turbo volvos while it's limit is around 350 horsepower (3rd gear tends to strip) guys have run 11's in the 1/4 mile with them in jeeps...

The Mitsu Montero 8 and 9 inch axles are basically copies of the ford 9 inch and 8.8 with some 'improvements' getting them to the 9.5" 31 spline. The rear diff in a montero is the same as a front diff in 4x4 Fuso box truck.

I've pulled apart 250,000 mile engines, both naturally aspirated and turbocharged and found the cylinders to still have the factory cross hatching from the honing process. Some 15-20 years ago I started working on mitsu's, since then I haven't found a brand that builds better from the factory and suits my needs. I've built 350hp cars using stock parts from other mitsu's and made my mighty max into an indestructible rig by using montero parts. You might say I'm a life long fan of Mitsu.

 

[Swift_45a]

I'm a die-hard Montero fan, I've had several and don't really care for any other 4x4 made in the past 30 years other than maybe an older gen Patrol due to similar reasons, but you have some rose-colored lens glasses regarding Mitsubish/DSM build quality.

The cars were never well regarded in terms of reliability amongst most enthusiasts, the 6G engines are plagued with walking cranks at even the lowest psi on their boosted engines, prone to lots of HG issues and the manual transmissions are utter garbage. The drive trains aren't really better, luckily parts are plentiful in junkyards as they were widely available as the only real redeeming quality of them as a 'tuner' car is that they were priced rather low/depreciated fast. The 3000gt being the biggest example of how bad they can get it, as that was a 64k car in the mid 90s, for reference that is Nissan Skyline GTR money and the two are no way even comparable.

Even in the higher trim cars like the Lancer Evo, which were always expensive, they have had a massive failure rate:

http://m.carcomplaints.com/Mitsubis...mission/power_train-manual_transmission.shtml
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53716

So, while Mitsu poured tons of research into the Montero/Pajero line, its fairly obvious its the out-liar not the norm, I must admit have a chip on my shoulder and love-hate relationship with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries were responsible for perhaps one of the biggest blunders (and that's REALLY saying something) in Nuclear History in my town, which ultimately helped get that plant shut down, thankfully.

But to this threads point, a privateer Pajero Evo was still running in the Dakar last year, check out my post history for the coverage I posted here for details. Not sure if it will run again this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if its not in the top 10.

Edit: Yeah, Isidre will compete in 2017 Dakar with his EVO:

http://www.mostreliablecarbrands.com/isidre-esteve-returns-to-the-dakar-with-a-mitsubishi-montero/
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/motor...shi-de-isidre-esteve-listo-para-el-dakar.html

It's an overbuilding fetish that some nut job engineers at mitsu have had for a long time. Thankfully.

The cars got a lot of the same treatment, it's mostly where quality metal and good machining come together.

PS: This the same ICX from wire?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

While I respect your right to your own opinion, I must say, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base...

The cars did not lack reliability, a bulk of the owners were the problem. Among the drag racing and street racing crowd the DSM caught on like wildfire and gave midwest V8's a run for their money on the streets. But along with their reputation for beating V8's and taking boost like some kind of addict, Most uneducated owners skipped the preventative maintenance on 15-25 year old cars and modified a stock car with 100k miles before doing it's proper maintenance, the fact that they were built so well was what allowed them to be beat into the ground by the average boost-knob-twisting, zip-tie-modding-clown. I've probably owned 60+ Mitsubishi's most of them turbo and I've never sent a single one to scrap that wasnt bought as a parts vehicle to start with. Hell I put myself through college rebuilding the cars that inexperienced owners almost ruined and then re-homed them to better owners. I've built, raced and daily driven mitsubishi's my entire adult life. From stock 200hp examples up to 450hp daily driven street sweepers, auto cross, drag racing, rally cross, you name it, i've used mitsu for it. My current daily driver is a 37 year old Mitsubishi that sat in the desert for who knows how long, after buying it and doing maintenance it went for a 7 hour road trip to mitsubishi owners day. Not reliable, my butt... Previous to this old wagon I've got, I bought a 43 year old mitsubishi, sight-unseen from the west coast, flew out on a 1-way ticket and drove it across the country.
The next year I did it again, with a montero, the year after that, i did it with a 41 year old mitsu, and the year after that, with a newer 2012 Galant...

Show me examples of 6G crank walk, please...?
I think you're referring to the 7 bolt 4G63's that for TWO years had oil feed issues that caused premature thrust bearing failure (crank walk) I've personally had 4G's crank walk, but I knew full well it was due to the oiling issue (typically combined with a heavy pressure plate), the oiling issue was revised in 97. This of course had nothing to do with boosted or not boosted, the only limiting factor being that in 95 and 96 the cars used a dodge neon engine in the non-turbo models, part of an agreement with chrysler to keep the manufacturing stateside, so there simply weren't any unboosted 4G models to crank walk, but they wouldve walked as well.

The manual transmissions were not garbage and have won many competitions, I've personally gone 12's on stock 1st and 2nd gen transmissions and my best friend growing up has ran his into the 11's, and im talking about first gen AWD transmissions, some of the 'weakest' in the bunch... it's all about shock load, again, I refer to my original statement of you being way off base, maybe due to internet education on the topic and not actual experience in this field? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty well educated on the passenger car line and grew up near Chicago, a hub of activity for DSM's back in 2000-2010 if you want to see the kind of abuse a Mitsu can handle, head out to the DSM shoot-out at Norwalk Raceway some time and watch those 20+ year old cars get bashed down the 1/4 mile at triple digit speeds producing single digit time slips.

As for the EVO, same applies there, racer fanboys immediately treating it like the WRC champions that Mitsubishi has proven to be (hard to be a champion without some reliability). I daily drove an 03 Lancer Evolution VIII for quite some time, ran high 12's in the 1/4 on a 98% stock vehicle and when I sold it to some honda chump from Chicago it took him no time at all to skip over his maintenance, crank up the boost and run it into the ground.

Take a look at this:
http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?Header_Type=All&Page=1

The top 150 mitsu's reporting in American report turning a single digit time slip. That's out of 1600 of them reporting, that number is HALF of the Galant VR4's even brought to the united states. Not reliable, pfffffft.

Do shops like Shep Racing and Team RIP engineering exist because the transmissions are junk? No. They exist because the transmissions can hold SINGLE DIGIT PASSES - Did shops like AutoMotoSports, Buschur Racing and Forced Performance build their empires because the cars were junk? Nah, they made their names because the cars were freaking awesome, the only weak link with a Mitsubishi is the intelligence of the nut behind the wheel

One Lap of America race which is full of millionaires and super funded race cars got a run for their money when Stephen Burke and Tim Harper entered their 25 year old Mitsubishi Galant VR4 and drove around America from race track to race track beating on vipers, vettes, mustangs and GTR's
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/galant-vr4/

Which 25 years prior was responsible for:

Major Results:
1991 Swedish Rally (WRC) 1st

Hanki Rally
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Indonesia Rally (APRC) 1st

Malaysia Rally (APRC) 1st

Rally Austraria(WRC) 2nd

Cyprus Rally(ERC) 1st

Valais Rally
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Bandama Rally(WRC) 1st

RAC Rally(WRC) 2nd

World Rally Championship(WRC) 3rd in Manufacturers' Championship

Asia Pacific Rally Championship(APRC) Manufacturers' Champion

Asia Pacific Rally Championship(APRC) Drivers' Champion

1992

Zlatni Piassatzi
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Polish Rally
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Barum Rally
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Rallye Deutchland
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Hunsruck
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Rally of Indonesia(APRC) 1st

Rallye ELPA
(European Rally Championship) 1st

Rally of Malaysia(APRC) 1st

Bandama Rally(WRC) 1st

Rally of Thailand(APRC) 1st



If my post sounds heated I apologize, you got me a little worked up hating on something I love.:ylsmoke:

I'm a die-hard Montero fan, I've had several and don't really care for any other 4x4 made in the past 30 years other than maybe an older gen Patrol due to similar reasons, but you have some rose-colored lens glasses regarding Mitsubish/DSM build quality.

The cars were never well regarded in terms of reliability amongst most enthusiasts, the 6G engines are plagued with walking cranks at even the lowest psi on their boosted engines, prone to lots of HG issues and the manual transmissions are utter garbage. The drive trains aren't really better, luckily parts are plentiful in junkyards as they were widely available as the only real redeeming quality of them as a 'tuner' car is that they were priced rather low/depreciated fast. The 3000gt being the biggest example of how bad they can get it, as that was a 64k car in the mid 90s, for reference that is Nissan Skyline GTR money and the two are no way even comparable.

Even in the higher trim cars like the Lancer Evo, which were always expensive, they have had a massive failure rate:

http://m.carcomplaints.com/Mitsubis...mission/power_train-manual_transmission.shtml
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53716

So, while Mitsu poured tons of research into the Montero/Pajero line, its fairly obvious its the out-liar not the norm, I must admit have a chip on my shoulder and love-hate relationship with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries were responsible for perhaps one of the biggest blunders (and that's REALLY saying something) in Nuclear History in my town, which ultimately helped get that plant shut down, thankfully.

But to this threads point, a privateer Pajero Evo was still running in the Dakar last year, check out my post history for the coverage I posted here for details. Not sure if it will run again this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if its not in the top 10.

Edit: Yeah, Isidre will compete in 2017 Dakar with his EVO:

http://www.mostreliablecarbrands.com/isidre-esteve-returns-to-the-dakar-with-a-mitsubishi-montero/
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/motor...shi-de-isidre-esteve-listo-para-el-dakar.html



PS: This the same ICX from wire?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

http://m.carcomplaints.com/Mitsubis...mission/power_train-manual_transmission.shtml
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53716

PS: This the same ICX from wire?

few things:
Did you read the thread you posted? Within 2 posts it's pointed out that the issue is due to driver abuse

The car complaints link you posted, did you look at montero ratings? I was able to find a number of ratings regarding montero that say they're rated as 'really awful' (worst on the scale) and yet I think we all agree, they're far from awful.

Lastly, yup! That's me, not sure who you are but your username looks familiar.

 

['round n' back again]

whew!!! im sold!

i especially like the part about driving across america in a new-to-you rig. i rebuilt most of this gen1 and she promised me she would take me to san diego.

 

[Swift_45a]

Right, 4g engine, not 6GXX my mistake. The 6G was the sought after TT swap from the JDM GTOs, right?

I had a cousin who bought a 97 eclipse, plagued with problems such that had his father or brother not been mechanics he'd have been stranded not long after as he couldn't turn a wrench much. Floating valves, walking crank, head gasket etc... all while on stock boost. While I bought my Nissan 240sx with about 50k more miles on my chassis and abused it way more than he ever did and mine just kept going with basic maintenance and tires and the mods I would eventually do.

I grant you that those chassis may have those accolades, but I mean the Pulsar GtiR or Sentra SER (AWD/FWD platforms respectively) had just as strong if not a better racing success and pedigree; my experience is mostly first hand, I saw too many DSM blow up at track events, likely due to neglect, so I never respected their car line up.

A guy with a Starion used to run with us in the mountains way back in 2003 and it always had problems mid-way through the night, so we had to stop inviting him as it was always caused problems and we didn't want to leave him behind. I don't know what they do at drag as I find that a pointless endeavor, but those drive trains couldn't even withstand some hard-parkers burnout at a meetup.

Also, and I hate to be 'that guy,' the owners were usually no better than ricer Honda kids 99% of the time, in my experience they seemed to have bought the car solely because it was on FnF.

I'll agree to disagree, I just don't value or respect their car line-up with exception of some earlier EVOs (3-7). I never really saw anything that impressive.

In fact I'm praying Nissan brings back the original Pajero/Montero Engineers and makes something worth while I can buy in a few years, because what ever the hell we got in the US as a Montero after a 3rd Gen was pathetic. All the better if the stay with the VK series engines as I know how to work on those and they're still are being used in several categories in Motorsports to this day. Suspension can be from a mid 2000s Patrol and it will still be miles ahead of most options out there today without paying Landcruiser money.

It'd be awesome to see a Works Pajero tearing up Dakar again; the King needs to take his throne back from VW and that mutation they have as they are already dominating WRC.

 

[Toasty]

I think most Mitsu's are more reliable and better built than their contemporaries apples to apples, Mighty Max > Hilux, Montero > Landcruiser, Outlander > Forester being just what I've owned and had experience with. However I disagree with IncX and don't consider the DSM's a Mitsu car, maybe they are OK cars and I'm being unfair. Maybe. Even though they are built with some MMC parts I don't think they are any better than their Chrysler couterparts. Having said that I would totally own a 3000GT VR-4, any Evo or even a MMNA 4th generation Eclipse GT if I were a car guy.

I think it would have been wiser for Chrysler to have let Mitsubishi do their own thing and just kept re badging their cars rather than the joint venture. I think the relationship would have lasted longer and they would still be selling cars together. Their cars are so different that there is a place for them in the line up for friendly competition. Imagine going to the Jeep dealership right now and seeing the Raider (In Gen 4 form) for sale along side the Wrangler like in the late 80's or at the Dodge dealership finding a brand new Turbo AWD Colt SRT-4 (Evo 10) along side the Challenger. I think Mitsubishi would have sold more cars had there been a better incentive for Chrysler to keep selling them rebadged vs making the DSMs. The worst part of the whole deal is that we lost the option to have a pickup, had they waited a couple more years the L-200 Triton would become large enough to satisfy the market's needs and we would have 4 door D-50 pickups and the Dakota would have never happened.

 

[Toasty]

Chrysler sucks.