Securing your fwc to your truck

[mattmobile]

Greetings,

This forum has been great in helping me to determine that a fwc will best suit my needs. Today I purchased an older model Keystone that has been retro-fitted to fit onto newer pickup trucks. It appears to have been professionally restored, but when the camper was narrowed, they left no outlet to secure the turnbuckles(internally). The previous owner secured the front of the camper with happy jacks, and bolted the rear to the bed of his pickup truck. I was wondering if anyone has simply bolted the camper to the pickup bed, and what sort of back up plating was used, if any. Thank you and once I have secured to my truck, I will post photo's

Mattmobile

[charlieaarons]

Even the stock 4WC system of turnbuckles is unsatisfactory, let alone bolting to the bed. Offroad, the bed of a pickup twists a lot and the stock 4WC system of open hooks becomes unhooked, so I went to closed mini shackles. That caused the bed sheet metal to actually pull out and might have destroyed the camper if I had had it long enough (I switched to a Unimog camper...).
The ideal system would be something spring-loaded.
This applies if you go offroad with the camper, which it is allegedly but evidently not truly designed for.
If you bolt the camper to the bed and go offroad (on more than smooth dirt roads) you will either pull the bolts out, seriously bend the bed sheet metal or destroy the wood mounting area in the camper.

Charlie

[SunMan]

I've heard of this being done. Your best bet is to contact FWC direct and ask them what their recommendation would be for your vehicle.

http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/contact.htm

[kcowyo]

I was wondering if anyone has simply bolted the camper to the pickup bed, and what sort of back up plating was used, if any.

Welcome to ExPo Matt and congrats on purchasing a Four Wheel Camper -

Depending on which truck, additional plates have been recommended. They are welded to the underside of the truck bed for reinforcement. Obviously each truck will be different so there is no one uniform template. I have measurements for my T100, but as of yet have not added them.

In certain instances under extreme off road conditions, the eyebolts fastened at the corners of the pick-up bed have been known to bulge and bubble up from the torque of the camper and bed twisting an bouncing. One of my front corners has a slight bulge. The reinforcement plates reportedly will prevent that from occurring.

I have seen and read about people bolting their campers in addition to using the turnbuckles but I've not seen it recommended to use bolts in place of the turnbuckles. The turnbuckle system and the aluminum frame allow the camper to flex with the truck off-road. It is part of the mounting system design and what makes the Four Wheel Camper more capable and durable in off road conditions.

Even the stock 4WC system of turnbuckles is unsatisfactory, let alone bolting to the bed....

...... if you go offroad with the camper, which it is allegedly but evidently not truly designed for.

Respectfully calling poppycock....

I'm no engineer and I don't mire myself in geeky tech talk about force, rotation, inertia and such. I will leave that to ntsqd and DaveinDenver, but turnbuckles are commonly used in boxing, wrestling and MMA rings as well as gymnastic floor platforms due to their ability to "stretch and flex" with applied force. Their ability to give and flex are their strength, not their weakness.

Now I will admit that Mr. Aarons lives in a state that is home to some of the wildest and toughest trails on the planet, no doubt. Alaskans idea of a "trail" is not what most people would attempt for a weekend or month long excursion. Whether a FWC is up to those challenges I cannot say as I have not had the pleasure of taking mine personally to Alaska.

However, Turtle Expeditions has taken a Four Wheel Camper across South America for 14 months and 50,000 miles. They also completed a 3-year/36,000-mile circumnavigation of the Northern Hemisphere, crossing the Eurasian continent, ocean to ocean, completely overland, traveling some 1,200 miles on frozen rivers and winter roads through the wilderness of the Russian Far East. You can add Mexico, Canada and Alaska to the regions where they tested a FWC for reliability and durability.

Adding to that list, ExPo member OutbacKamper, spent 9 months in Australia touring the outback with his FWC. The Australian outback is a proven testing ground for off-road equipment if there ever was one. I know he experienced a few issues along the way, one in particular relating to a turnbuckle issue, but his FWC survived the trip regardless.

As for my own FWC, it has survived and thrived on 4wd trails in the western US, including;

• 4 trips to Colorado, on numerous 4wd trails above timberline
• 4 trips to Utah, with a 7 day off-road adventure through Canyonlands NP
• 2 trips to Death Valley, on Goler Wash, the Racetrack and over Hunter Mtn
• 2 trips to Montana, exploring the CDT and the rugged SW corner
• 2 trips to Nevada, circumnavigating Lake Mead and crossing the Superstition Mtns
• 4 trips to Idaho, roaming backroads and exploring the Frank Church -River of No Return Wilderness area
• numerous 4wd trails around the western half of Wyoming

You can also include for posterity, driving up the Pacific Coast Highway, day trips into New Mexico and Arizona, running the Oregon coast and sand dunes, and fighting bumper to bumper traffic on the Las Vegas strip, Denver, Salt Lake City, Portland and a few others I'm trying to forget.

I'm not simply an owner calling foul and defending my choice. I have thoroughly tested the off-road capabilities of this camper and have found it to live up to the marketing and advertising. It does what they claim and it does it better than any other slide-in option on the market. It has the pedigree because it earned it, one bone jarring mile at a time.

Sorry Charlie, that your experience wasn't as positive.

[slooowr6]

Welcome Matt,
You'll love your new camper!
The FWC camper, Falcon, for the previous generation double cab Tacoma, one with 5 foot bed, is bolt through the truck bed. Falcon is a much smaller camper than your Keystone so not sure if bolt through will be enough. KC brought up a good point , addition backing plate for the eyebolt is recommended for extra security. The rear turnbuckle on my ATC camper only need to be re tighten once after initial installation and it has been tight ever since. I've driven on the trail to Racetrack Playa in Death Valley at 25mph the turnbuckle did not come loose. There is another option for the front is to use Torklift, http://www.torklift.com/. Check out my setup and lqhikers's setup, http://expeditionportal.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=10307. I use only the external tie down, lqhiker uses both eyebolt and external tie down.

Now let's see some pic of your new toy!

[charlieaarons]

Welcome to ExPo Matt and congrats on purchasing a Four Wheel Camper -


In certain instances under extreme off road conditions, the eyebolts fastened at the corners of the pick-up bed have been known to bulge and bubble up from the torque of the camper and bed twisting an bouncing. One of my front corners has a slight bulge. The reinforcement plates reportedly will prevent that from occurring.

I have seen and read about people bolting their campers in addition to using the turnbuckles but I've not seen it recommended to use bolts in place of the turnbuckles. The turnbuckle system and the aluminum frame allow the camper to flex with the truck off-road. It is part of the mounting system design and what makes the Four Wheel Camper more capable and durable in off road conditions.




Respectfully calling poppycock....

I'm no engineer and I don't mire myself in geeky tech talk about force, rotation, inertia and such. I will leave that to ntsqd and DaveinDenver, but turnbuckles are commonly used in boxing, wrestling and MMA rings as well as gymnastic floor platforms due to their ability to "stretch and flex" with applied force. Their ability to give and flex are their strength, not their weakness.

Now I will admit that Mr. Aarons lives in a state that is home to some of the wildest and toughest trails on the planet, no doubt. Alaskans idea of a "trail" is not what most people would attempt for a weekend or month long excursion. Whether a FWC is up to those challenges I cannot say as I have not had the pleasure of taking mine personally to Alaska.


.

Sorry Charlie, that your experience wasn't as positive.

If I can make a positive suggestion: attach your camper at THREE points, not four like it is set up (ask 4WC if this is OK). Why? It's a well known fact of geometry that any three points in Euclidean space can be connected by a flat plane. Any random 4 points cannot.
That's why every manufacturer of expedition campers uses 3 point mounts and a Unimog has 3 point mounts for engine, trans, etc.
My experience with the 4WC was practical proof of this. It practically ripped out of my F350 bed.
One can imagine my chagrin when after about 3-5 miles of somewhat bumpy trail I noted my bed askew and found that 3 out of 4 (open) turnbuckles had come loose, after tightening that morning. That's when I got the idea of closed shackles, and after that the bed-ripping started.

Charlie

[mattmobile]

Thank you to everyone for your input. I really appreciate your thoughts.
Charlie brought up an interesting point that I had pondered about securing the truck at three points. I have read a previous note about someone that had done this on another type of expedition camper, with the thinking being that three points allows the camper to flex. My primary issue is that my camper does not have the doors along the side that would allow you to use internal turnbuckles. I believe that the camper was retrofitted to fit into newer model trucks as it is a 1988. All of the other four wheel campers I have seen prior to 1990 are 64 inches wide at the back. I have a newer Dodge, and it is 60 inches at the rear tailgate opening. It was a very tight fit. I have it secured up front with a happy jack external system with turnbuckles and bolted to the rear. I will be taking the camper out tomorrow up into the mountains outside Denver and will be watching closely to see how this system works.

Thanks again;

Mattmobile

[lqhikers]

A little more input on fwc attachments.when you buy equipment that is going to be exposed to extreme use you should do some home work before you have a problem,99% of people will get along just fine with what is recommend by the factory,for those who push the limits should always plan on things breaking and know how to fix when you can not run back to the dealer/etc to repair your problem.
Don't blame the factory for parts ripping out of the bed it(it was not designed to hold 1000 to 1500 pounds with 4 small bolts)
Don't blame the camper manufacture when the bolts pulled out of the camper base (more than likely caused by loose turnbuckles caused by not checking)
If you want to end your mounting problems take the time to mount your unit correctly for how you use it.
I say this from experience as i tore my camper loose after 2+ weeks of Baja travel with out checking turnbuckles because i was to lazy to un pack access points to check.That was over 4 years ago,since i use my truck for what i bought it for i knew i had to rethink my mounting system which i have done,no more problems!!
I never worry about things breaking as our lifestyle accepts the facts that there will always be bumps (sometime's big holes) in the journey after all its just part of the journey!
I think you could substitute any part on a expo rig and my answer would be the same.
Now get out there and explore!
Drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"
Les,Lqhikers

[masterplumber]

I've had my Granby on my F350 for about 50k miles - including a trip to Baja & many twisting rocky trails here in Colorado. Mine's bolted in 4 places using extra large & thick fender washers top & bottom. While my truck bed is slightly dimpled I've never had the camper pull loose. One thing that makes a big difference which I freely admit to copying from the Wescotts is to use High density foam or rubber between the bed rail & the camper. I used 2 layers of an old backpacking sleeping pad as my camper was only 1'' above the bed but I believe Gary used some sort of automotive molding. Just be sure to glue it to the camper so it doesn't pop out. I believe the Turtle IV has 4 bolts down each side ( 8 total ) with large backing plates welded to the bed. They did have the bed of the truck rip before this modification. Their camper was also custom built by FWC & has gussets welded in the corners. On mine I need to pull the front skin & maybe weld in gussets as I think the frame is starting to crack. Still - the camper works well as a 3 season camper & it's 20 years old.