canter rims

[alan]

Well I finally found a rim manufacturer to make some 16"x8" split rims for canters, if anyone is interested in purchasing these rims let me know.

[93Canter]

Allan

Hopefully this will stimulate some more discussion on the topic.

I have been puzzling over 16 inch rims for a while. Initially I wanted 19.5 inch rims but I heard that when you let the air out of them the tyres don't necessarily balloon out.

I then noticed that Earthcruiser had done some serious sand (Madigan line etc) with the 16inch Michelin XZL combination so I figured it was a good direction to go in.

If my interpretation is correct, to run Michelin XZLs I can only use a 16 X 6 or 16 X 6.5 inch rim. And for Coopers I need at least 16 X 7 inches and their load rating is lower.

So a tough decision needs to be made that factors in long term tyre availability cost etc. The cost bit has me nervous already. However I am leaning towards the 16 X 6.5 inch XZL combination.

However the final problem is getting an engineer to agree to the idea, in Canberra they will only accept a NSW or ACT certified engineer. (You mention Qld to ACT rego officials and they shudder)

Given the 4 inch increase in Diameter is a radical change from standard has anyone managed to get an Engineer to agree to the XZLs described on an FG in NSW/ACT?

My final point of confusion is that the XZL is classed as an "off road" tyre, can it still be used legally "on road" in Australia?

cheers

Michael
ps this is my first post!

[whatcharterboat]

Hi Michael. Welcome.

Initially I wanted 19.5 inch rims but I heard that when you let the air out of them the tyres don't necessarily balloon out.

This is my opinion and I've said it before but for an allround, allterrain, most economical setup (particularly the Hankooks over the dearer Bridgestone), the 19.5 " are hard to go past, however for pure offroad, the XZL's are probably the pick (unless money is no object or you can look at the XML's).

More important than how much they "balloon out", is how long a footprint they can give. If you read the "FG fleet mechanic interview" the guys that run these every day on the beach still run around 60PSI unless it's extra soft and they might go down to 40. They also run the XZL "road" version when they can get them too which are the same size but with a conventional tread and therefore give extra milage.

I then noticed that Earthcruiser had done some serious sand (Madigan line etc) with the 16inch Michelin XZL combination so I figured it was a good direction to go in.

This truck was setup with all our standard long travel suspension, dual shocks, XZL tyre combo etc that has been around for 10 years or more on tour buses and older motorhomes. So yeah definitely a well proven setup and a good direction to go in. The 19.5"s are relatively new to Canters as a SRW conversion.

If my interpretation is correct, to run Michelin XZLs I can only use a 16 X 6 or 16 X 6.5 inch rim. And for Coopers I need at least 16 X 7 inches and their load rating is lower.

No. Not quite right. The standard 6.00 rims are OK but 7.00 are closer to the correct width for an XZL 100R/16 tyre. If you are going to get the wider 7.00 rims, then you can also get them made with the correct offset. The OEM wheels don't give the correct wheel alignment (front to back) but as I said you can get away with it.

However the final problem is getting an engineer to agree to the idea, in Canberra they will only accept a NSW or ACT certified engineer. (You mention Qld to ACT rego officials and they shudder)

Given the 4 inch increase in Diameter is a radical change from standard has anyone managed to get an Engineer to agree to the XZLs described on an FG in NSW/ACT?

We build a lot of commercial vehicles for NSW including some for Government agencies and many run the XZL's. Legally. Not sure about ACT. I know NSW are a bit over the top on some issues such as exhausts. All the NSW vehicles have had to have a rear / roof top exhaust outlet . See the that little white SWB for example. Adding that much length is just ridiculous for a little turbo truck.

My final point of confusion is that the XZL is classed as an "off road" tyre, can it still be used legally "on road" in Australia?

Michael, I know it’s a big claim but to quote Michelin on the XZL, they are “designed for exceptional traction and handling on all terrains including snow, sand, mud or highway”. See the "highway" bit, so they are a very different classification to an Agricultural tyre.

I took this pick today of an almost completed bus on XZL's with the OEM rims. It''ll probably spend most of it's life in sand.

[93Canter]

Thanks for the detailed reply WCB

You did open my mind to the various options that 16 inch allows. Such as not buying Rims and just using the standard rims to save money. Or to make one spare out of a standard rim and only buy 5 rims with the correct offset.

My goal is to do the Madigan line at some point. I am paranoid and it probably relates to us being stuck on several beaches in Cape York. For some strange reason the tide seems to rise quicker than air can be let out of the 6 standard tyres. (we did manage to escape under our own steam)

Say you have the choice of either rim size, the Madigan line is your goal, and safety is more important than dollars in your pocket, which option would you choose?

The bit about rims being 6 or 6.5 inches came from here,
http://www.tirecraft.com/commercial/MichXZLspecs.htm
it is old info, but sadly there is bugger all new information published on the net. I rang the local Michelin distributor today and he couldn't even find 16 inch 255/100XZL tyres in his books.

The other task to prepare for the Madigan line is to do a full rebuild of the camper and try to make it a lot lighter. Currently I am sitting at about 5.5 tonne when kitted out for a long trip so the truck needs to go on a diet...

[whatcharterboat]

The bit about rims being 6 or 6.5 inches came from here,
http://www.tirecraft.com/commercial/MichXZLspecs.htm

There ya go. It definitely says 6.00 or 6.50 for the 9.00R16 and I had a good look at a 255/100R16 today and I noticed it also had 9.00 R16 stamped on it so I quess it's talking about the same thing. Actually this may be old info. They used to do an older 9.00R16 and an 11.00R16 which is also noted on that table which makes me think this. We have one of the old Michelin 11.00R16's at work.

Anyway , to me they certainly look much more at home on a 7.00 than the standard 6.00. Have another look at the wheels on the grey bus we are finishing off at the moment.



The tyre also said suitable for "DOT and highway use in North America and Australia". I wonder what happens with the rest of the world???

The other task to prepare for the Madigan line is to do a full rebuild of the camper and try to make it a lot lighter. Currently I am sitting at about 5.5 tonne when kitted out for a long trip so the truck needs to go on a diet...

That big bluey/grey motorhome (heaps of pics already here) we built is very close to max GVM and it's done 4 fairly serious desert crossings now. The present owner says the weight doesn't bother him and I've been it up some really steep stuff and the weight pushing down on the luggy tyres gives alot of traction. He runs XML's but is looking at going over to 19.5" Bridgestones due to the cost. If you can get them you are looking at $1200 each. I know there were some floating around for the $800 mark awhile back but not anymore and with the economy I think tyres are one thing that will certainly go up. BTW that truck has a very healthy power output to handle the XML's too.

Also as Mickldo said awhile ago, you only have to look at how the FG's go on Fraser Island (with SRWs and close to max GVM), and how they just charge on past barely cracking a sweat while "mere mortals" struggle in conventional 4x4s with Snatch straps and shovels.

Anyway a diet is always good. If not for any other reason than to give you the ability to carry more fuel and water.

Say you have the choice of either rim size, the Madigan line is your goal, and safety is more important than dollars in your pocket, which option would you choose?

Mate, I'm a real fan of the performance of the Michelins, even on a standard non-turbo FG637 but maybe you should have a good look at the Bridgestone (305 wide) with some heavy duty 19.5" rims given your weight. The stronger rims are probably a safer option if you are up at that weight and want to go with single rear wheels.

Michael, your truck is a "standard non-turbo FG637", isn't it?

[whatcharterboat]

Hi Leon. Welcome also.

When you run the stock wheels as singles on the rear, are there any axle modifications or spacers required?

What is the largest tyre you can fit on the stock wheels and stock suspension without having clearance/rubbing issues?

What about the 16"x8" wheels, is this not a good option?

Leon. I presume this was aimed at me but I'm in Australia and by coincidence I only saw my first FGT140 at lunchtime today. One of the first to go on sale here. Modifying FG's and Isuzu NPS's is pretty much all I've been doing at work for the last 6 years and my boss has been into it longer than anyone here so I can give advice on the older FG649 and 637 models but anything I said about the FG140 would just be a guess and you should ask the guys on ExPo who already run them and also to see what you can and can't get away with in the US as far as your DoT goes. Really helpful people here. So I shouldn't say too much about "axle modifications or spacers" or "the largest tyre you can fit on the stock wheels and stock suspension without having clearance/rubbing issues".

Give us a couple of months to do some R&D. I pretty sure we'll have some FG140's to do first thing in the new year. Everyone's been hanging out to see what they look like. So I suppose buyers here will either go for them now or the new Euro IV Isuzu's that were released here a few months back.

I know you asked about shortening the chassis in the other thread > well I can say that it would a really simple job however we have never done it IIRC but it's not something that seems logical to me either. Just buy a short one if that's what you need. We regularly stretch these chassis 2 or 3 feet and that is quite a bit more involved. The rear half of the new chassis looks unchanged from the old model so I'm confident that this is accurate about being easy to do.

Personally I like the standard length wheelbase over the SWB especially for desert work and if your camper body is only short you can either shorten the end of the chassis so there is less overhang or utilize it for a bike / tyre rack.

BTW I don't know of any 16" tyres here with the correct load rating that will fit the 16 x 8 or anything bigger than 16 x 7??? Is there some in North America?

[whatcharterboat]

BTW I don't know of any 16" tyres here with the correct load rating that will fit the 16 x 8 or anything bigger than 16 x 7??? Is there some in North America?

Except XML's and your talking major mods to get them on without rubbing. See the one we built in the pic below. Not sure but maybe they were 9.25" rims.

[93Canter]

Hi WCB

Mine is a 93 FG439 that has done about 30,000km. So the low power might be a reason to minimise the increase in diameter.

The 9.00 R16 has been superseded by the metric version 255/100. I have asked for the current specs from Michelin Australia. Since they stopped selling them to the public in the US there is very little up to date info published.

I will take a closer look at the 19.5 Bridgestone 305 combination tonight.

Thanks!

[whatcharterboat]

If I get real crazy I may end up attempting a portal axle project.

Leon, please take this the right way, but at some point you will say to yourself "Maybe I should just buy a Mog or MAN and save myself the time and trouble". FG's are a great "allrounder" with only minor mods but sounds like you are after something far more specific.

John

[alan]

I should point out my Canter is a SWB and rated at 4450kg max so there are tyres in 16" that will do the job. It will never exceed 4000kg in it's life.
The tyres 35"10.5X16" will cost approx $350 each and the rims will cost the same so it is within reach for me price wise.