Opinions on the LR3

PCRover

Adventurer
A complete computer failure is VERY RARE but suspension faults are VERY COMMON. Just ask anyone who has owned an LR3. Most are cleared by a simple restart, but then some are not. My concern was not with a computer failure, but with a suspension failure or a perceived failure by the CPU that then shuts down the air system and you are now stuck riding the bump stops over terrain that is not accommodating.

Another vulnerability in the LR3 is to Mud/Water in the electrical components. One owner I know went through a mud pit and immediately got a dash full of warning and failure lights. He limped home, but when it dried out a week later all was fine. Sure, he probably shouldn't have driven through the pit, but then if you are on a trail and it rains and mud is the only way out, you might be in a bad situation.

The LR3 has a place in the off road community for sure, but one must be careful in choosing a vehicle for expedition use and the LR3 would be low on my list.
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
PCRover said:
A complete computer failure is VERY RARE but suspension faults are VERY COMMON. Just ask anyone who has owned an LR3. Most are cleared by a simple restart, but then some are not. My concern was not with a computer failure, but with a suspension failure or a perceived failure by the CPU that then shuts down the air system and you are now stuck riding the bump stops over terrain that is not accommodating.

Another vulnerability in the LR3 is to Mud/Water in the electrical components. One owner I know went through a mud pit and immediately got a dash full of warning and failure lights. He limped home, but when it dried out a week later all was fine. Sure, he probably shouldn't have driven through the pit, but then if you are on a trail and it rains and mud is the only way out, you might be in a bad situation.

The LR3 has a place in the off road community for sure, but one must be careful in choosing a vehicle for expedition use and the LR3 would be low on my list.

It sound like Land Rover has upgraded to "Lucas" electronics. :)
 

greenmeanie

Adventurer
R_Lefebvre said:
You forget, they still make a work truck. The Defender. It's just not available in the US. ;)

Land Rover used to state that their bread and butter vehicle was the Defender. It was built first as a working truck and then dolled up to be a pretty to be sold as a toy. With all the military contracts, fleet contracts, farmers etc. it brought in a lot of money. With this in mind LR had the mentality of understanding the simplicity and lack of frills that people want in a working vehicle.

Sometime in the last 5 years or so since I stopped buying the landyrags LR under Ford announced that the RR is now seen as the bread and butter and would drive future product development for the marque. This is a fundemental change from the Defender to an SUV mentality where bells and whistles are the driver. In support of this most information regarding a Defender update states that it will use the same platform as the Disco 3.

You'll note that LR is even withdrawing from the military markets these days as their presence and marketing at the major shows is greatly reduced. SUV's were a far more lucrative market up until recently. We'll see what Tata does with them.

Cheers
Gregor
 

flyingwil

Supporting Sponsor - Sierra Expeditions
Honestly I think the LR3 has good looks, but my first experience with one was one following me when I called out sick from work because I saw snow up on the mountain peaks, and it called for a drive! Some poor guy in his brand new LR3 decided to follow us up over the peaks. Unfortunately lack of driver education and vehicle equipment cause the poor elderly gentleman to go off the cliff nearly loosing his new LR3. He barely knew how to shift it into 4WD and once it did the only wheels that got the power were both the ones in the air. Yikes!!!

Here's some pictures of the recovery:

IMG_1471.jpg


IMG_1470.jpg
 

RETROFIT

Observer
Well ..

What you don't have can't brake. The less systems you have, the less weaknesses you create, and eventually the better off you are. Sure the LR3s are great rigs, just a little too complex for the task of overlanding for my taste.

My .02$

Pat
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
superpowerdave said:
Honestly though, looking at a coil-sprung LR3 would make the low price fade fast as it can't be cheap to swap that suspension out for coils, but who knows? I'm not sure if it was a factory option or not (not that I've heard of anyway).

There isn't a conversion kit yet that I know of, though I know one major vendor is working on one. However, it could be years away, who knows? There are several mfr's of aftermarket shocks and springs now, including OME, but these are not conversion kits. The problem with conversion is that you need a black box to fool the ride height sensors so that the ECU doesn't report a fault and shut down the car. It's not a simple mechanical swap.

But for what it's worth, yes, the coil spring version is a factory option in every country except in the USA. As I stated before, there are a few here in the country (legally). They were brought in as pre-production models when Ford (cough - I mean Land Rover) was experiementing with which option packages to make available to the US market.

Here area few shots of what mine looks like (with aftermarket springs):
springs_01-700.jpg


springs_02-700.jpg


springs_03-700.jpg


Here is a link to a comparison table on ride height that I put together:
http://www.nextstepdesigns.com/images/LR3/LR3_heights.pdf

If someone were interested in using a US spec LR3 for an expedition rig, I would consider selling mine.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
A few thoughts.
How do you get out if your electrickery traction aids fail on the "bad side" of an area you used them to get through?
On an independent suspension drive train, which direction do the diff to engine components go when both/all springs compress?
On an axle with rubber boots "protecting" the CV joints, what happens to the CV joint if you have an unnoticed tear in the boot? Especially driving in sandy/gritty areas.
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
Honestly, while I'm sure they're like any other truck out there in that there are good and bad examples... I think Nwoods truck is awsome, and I bet it wheels great, but htere's a larger margin for failure in these rigs. With all the other oiptions, why would you buy one? I'd say for that money you should get an older D1 (if ou're set on Landies) or just get a 80 or 100series Cruiser and never worry about hese types of failures. Plus with the money saved you can afford to kit it out with a rack/RTT and body pretection. Like I said, with all the other options, I just don't see an LR3 as a good choice.

Cheers

Dave
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
Antichrist said:
A few thoughts.
How do you get out if your electrickery traction aids fail on the "bad side" of an area you used them to get through?

You use your driving skills. Most of the "expedition" style off roading does not require a locker. While the LR3 has a locking center diff and available locking rear diff, it is still a full time 4wd with low range transfer case and with decent tires, can get through most anything other than a major rock garden. If you know how to drive and are properly equipped for recovery, I don't see loosing your traction control as a "game over" situation. The mechanical s on an LR3 are pretty stout, and let's not forget the 300hp V8 that they come with also.

Antichrist said:
On an independent suspension drive train, which direction do the diff to engine components go when both/all springs compress?

The diff's and driveshafts don't move, the suspension compresses and the CV's and halfshafts go up....just like on the front end of a Tacoma.

Antichrist said:
On an axle with rubber boots "protecting" the CV joints, what happens to the CV joint if you have an unnoticed tear in the boot? Especially driving in sandy/gritty areas.

This is a potential weakness in any IFS vehicle, but a very minor one. You could always duct tape your CV boots I suppose...

The better question to ask is, what is the impact on a permanent lift to the CV joints at a full steering lock at full extension?

The answer is to find the limit and back off some percentage to ensure you do not exceed the limit. In an LR3, there have a been 3 reported CV's failures, worldwide, that I'm aware of. Two of them to the same guy! They have all failed in this exact scenario, while in Super Extended Mode, which is the equivalent to nearly 6" of lift above normal ride height. I am running the equivalent of a permanent 3" lift above normal ride height and have had ample opportunity to break something, with nothing bad happening. I think the limit on the CV's is about 4" for safety, 5" if carefully driven and you understand the vulnerabilities and don't nail the throttle with the steering wheel cranked to full lock with full suspension flex in the highest possible lift setting.

To prevent confusion, there are 5 lift settings on a stock air suspended LR3:
1. Access height (55mm lower than standard ride height - user selectable)
2. Standard ride height (user selectable)
3. Off Road height (55mm higher than standard ride height - user selectable)
4. Extended Off Road height (50mm higher than Off Road ride height - NOT user selectable)
5. Super Extended Off Road height (approx 150mm higher than normal mode, User selectable if the system is in Extended mode)
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Antichrist said:
A few thoughts.
How do you get out if your electrickery traction aids fail on the "bad side" of an area you used them to get through?
On an independent suspension drive train, which direction do the diff to engine components go when both/all springs compress?
On an axle with rubber boots "protecting" the CV joints, what happens to the CV joint if you have an unnoticed tear in the boot? Especially driving in sandy/gritty areas.

-Use your winch. Same deal as if you lost a driveshaft on ANY 4x4.

-They don't move. The suspension moves independently, just like on any IFS truck, Hummer H1's, or most modern ATV's.

- The same place it goes if you have a failed seal on ball and cup axles. Also it should be noted because I'm not sure everyone is aware, "split boots" are available for temporary CV boot fixes.

It should also be mentioned, that while the new trucks have much more new extra things that can go wrong. They also are much less likely to suffer the old mechanical failures in the first place. Cracked heads and blown head gaskets very rarely happen to new engine designs.

Also, the new trucks don't have distributors to get wet or crack. Some don't have spark plug wires. The electrical connectors are better, etc.

It's give and take. If the computer tools were available I wouldn't worry about it. The fact that they are proprietary is the only problem.

My wife's auto trans in her Focus crapped the bed a month ago. If it had been an old car, what would I do? Probably tear it out and dissassemble, or replace it. But, since it was modern, with OBDII, I just plugged in a $100 scanner which told me the Transmission Range Sensor was bad, and I replaced it for $80. Took 15 minutes.

Old vehicles sure won't tell you what's wrong with them like that.
 

RETROFIT

Observer
R_Lefebvre said:
My wife's auto trans in her Focus crapped the bed a month ago. If it had been an old car, what would I do? Probably tear it out and dissassemble, or replace it. But, since it was modern, with OBDII, I just plugged in a $100 scanner which told me the Transmission Range Sensor was bad, and I replaced it for $80. Took 15 minutes.

Old vehicles sure won't tell you what's wrong with them like that.

But then again you would not have to change a sensor on an old tranny since they don't have them ...

But your point is well made. (Not taking any side here, just stating the paradox)

Pat
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
jfm_stl said:
Browsing Craigslist during the last couple of weeks and I've come across a few LR3's with 20-30K on the clock selling for $20-25K. The electrics have been enough to scare me from newer Landies, but these seem awfully tempting.

My primary use would be as an overland travel vehicle, Newfoundland, James Bay, Alaska, Baja, Central America etc.

Thoughts, experience, informed opinions?

Jim
What is it that's drawing you to the LR#? IS it a desire to have a truck that is different from most of the examples here?

As I said before, for 20-25K you could build any number of more proven platforms. Nwoods Coil converted truck removes a major concern of mine for these trucks, but it still has ALOT of potential gremlins lurking under the skin. Too many for me to ever consider it a viable long term Expo platform.

Cheers

Dave
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
RETROFIT said:
But then again you would not have to change a sensor on an old tranny since they don't have them ...

But your point is well made. (Not taking any side here, just stating the paradox)

Pat

I thought that might come up. In my experience, the older cars had plenty of other things that could go wrong with them. No TRS? Fine, it would have an old manual valve body that could get plugged up, etc.
 

greenmeanie

Adventurer
Real older trucks have a stick in the middle and a third pedal. The only valves that get bunged up in the controller get fixed with laxative.


I still view auto boxes as too complex. It is far more difficult to fix in the field than dropping my old manual gearbox.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,527
Messages
2,875,545
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top